HID's vs. projectors, need some clarification Options

[6gcnoob]

hey everyone. i missed out on that GB everyone did for the HID's. im looking to change my low's as well, and i just wanted to know what the diffrence is, which one is better and anything else that could help me to go further with this mod. thanks.

[BloodyStupidDave...]

hey everyone. i missed out on that GB everyone did for the HID's. im looking to change my low's as well, and i just wanted to know what the diffrence is, which one is better and anything else that could help me to go further with this mod. thanks.

HIDs are a type of lightbulb (the technical term is lamp) where as projector is a type of lamp housing.

Generally it is considered a very bad idea indeed to put HID lamps into housings intended for standard halogen lamps as the beam pattern is different - HIDs tend to 'leak' light above the cut-off point. This can cause it to appear asif you are flashing other drivers or can even dazzle other drivers with potentially dangerous consequences.

Projector housings for our cars are still intended for halogen lamps but with modern, good quality, HIDs arguably the 'leak' effects are better than with non-projector housings.

One final point to note is that in some US states and many countries outside the US it may be illegal to use HIDs in housings not intended for the purpose. For instance, in the UK HIDs are not road-legal as an aftermarket mod unless the car both has auto-levelling headlights (auto-leveling means without any user intervention) and headlight washers or wipers. In the UK, driving a car that is not road-legal invalidates your insurance and carries heavy fines.

Here are a coule of links about legality:
Daniel Stern Lighting
UK DfT policy on aftermarket HIDs

If you are looking for the cool look or visibility of HID headlights and are from a part of the world where HID mods are problematic, there are a couple of options:

* HIR bulbs such as Toshiba HiR, Polarg Spec-R. These are Halogen bulbs with a silvered tip that reflects the infrared light back into the bulb, heating up the halogen gas more than the filament can on its own. They burn between 80% and 110% brighter than standard halogen at the same wattage (HIDs are between 80% and 300% brighter than standard halogens depending on the colour tempterature). By default they give a much whiter light than traditional Halogen bulbs but are also available with blue glass to give a more exotic look similar to the higher temperature HID bulbs. HIR bulbs are used in the Scion tC and the Camry among others.

* Toshiba bulbs aren't available aftermarket but a number of vehicle manufacturers sell Toshiba as their own. For instance, the John Deere AH211917 is actually a Toshiba HiD 9011.

* Xenon bulbs such as Philips X-treme, Osram Silverstar or Nightbreaker. These have a high pressure Xenon gas and a tungsten element. They burn up to 80% (Philips) or 90% (Osram) brighter and around 10% whiter than standard halogen bulbs and run at the same wattage.

Which is better - HIR or Xenon? There doesn't appear to be any consensus - please leave a comment if you have experience with both and have an opinion. One final note - any coating (blue, yellow or any other colour) will reduce the light output further.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Jan 18, 2009 - 5:31 PM

[samir0189]

bloodySMARTdavey - Thank you for all the great information! But I have a question, I was looking for HIR and Xenon bulbs in the 9005/9006 type, but i can't seem to find any by any of the brands you listed. Am I a horrible searcher or is there some type of conversion to be able to fit these types of bulbs in the celica?

[BloodyStupidDave...]

I was looking for HIR and Xenon bulbs in the 9005/9006 type, but i can't seem to find any by any of the brands you listed. Am I a horrible searcher or is there some type of conversion to be able to fit these types of bulbs in the celica?

Xenon are readily available in 9005/9006. It is easiest to search by brand name. It also depends which part of the world you are in - the same lamps have different names in different countries:

9005 == HB3
9006 == HB4

Philips X-treme 9006 are currently in short supply. SUVLights claim to have them but I'm sure there are alternatives. Philips X-treme 9005 aren't launched yet but are expected later this year.
http://www.suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=100

With HIR you have three choices. 9011 is equivilent to 9005 and 9012 is equivlent to 9006 except the tabs on the plugs/sockets:

Option 1: A quick file of the tab will allow a 9011 or 9012 lamp to be plugged into a 9005 or 9006 socket respectively.

Option 2: 9011 sockets will accept both 9005 and 9011 lamps; 9012 sockets will accept both 9006 and 9012 lamps so you could swap out the socket. With a little research, you might even be able to determine the correct Toyota part number to repin to the new socket without cutting and splicing wires.

Option 3: Some manufacturers, eg Polarg, are starting to supply HIR with 9005/9006 bases rather than 9011/9012 bases.

There is a polarg HB4/9006 listed on ebay at the moment (not mine and I can't vouch for the seller) but in general I strongly recommend avoiding eBay for HIR/Xenon lamps until supply outpaces demand - there are a lot of dodgy listings on there at the moment.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Oct 21, 2008 - 6:28 PM

[daazndood]

i've always wondered this too. so just buying xenon bulbs is fine? are there any drawbacks?

[BloodyStupidDave...]

i've always wondered this too. so just buying xenon bulbs is fine? are there any drawbacks?

Well, we are talking specifically about the high-pressure Xenon and the HIR lamps. The lower-pressure Xenon lamps produce +30% to +50% whereas the Philips X-treme, Osram Nightbreaker and similar lamps from Toshiba, Ring and so on produce around +80% to +90%. As mentioned above, the HIR lamps I've seen are in the +80 to +110% range.

1. They are expensive compared to standard lamps.
2. Stray away from the well-known brands and you'll likely end up with either a knock-off that doesn't output the claimed brightness, doesn't perform as well as the well-known brands, or fails early.
3. They are brighter than standard halogens but not as bright as the best HIDs

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Oct 21, 2008 - 6:29 PM

[GriffGirl]

IIRC you can find the HIR bulbs where farm supplies are sold; it's my understanding that they are used for tractors which apparently use 9006 bulbs

[daazndood]

i've always wondered this too. so just buying xenon bulbs is fine? are there any drawbacks?

Well, we are talking specifically about the high-pressure Xenon and the HIR lamps. The lower-pressure Xenon lamps produce +30% to +50% whereas the Philips X-treme, Osram Nightbreaker and similar lamps from Toshiba, Ring and so on produce around +80% to +90%. As mentioned above, the HIR lamps I've seen are in the +80 to +110% range.

1. They are expensive compared to standard lamps.
2. Stray away from the well-known brands and you'll likely end up with either a knock-off that doesn't output the claimed brightness, doesn't perform as well as the well-known brands, or fails early.
3. They are brighter than standard halogens but not as bright as the best HIDs

ooh i see. so they are direct swap from my ugly oem yellow light bulbs?

how much do decent ones cost? i hate the stock light color i would look into this.

[GriffGirl]

I think they're about $50/pr... someone on here has them on his car, damn I can't remember his s/n but I do remember he says he likes them. They're not super white like HIDs but I think they're a decent upgrade if you don't want HIDs. Also there's always Silverstar Ultras, also about $50/pr but much more readily available. Even Wal Mart carries the Silverstars.

[Galcobar]

You can find the high efficiency (low pressure) or ultra-high efficiency (high pressure) bulbs for reasonable prices if you know where to shop. As a point, the high level of ignorance prevalent among car owners has led to the oddity of standard halogen bulbs with blue tints being priced as high or higher than the high performance halogens.

I'd suggest looking up powerbulbs.com; they're UK based but ship worldwide for free, and have the best prices I've found.

One point, however: the hotter the flame, the shorter the fire. High efficiency halogens can last as long as standard bulbs, and in some cases longer. The ultra-high efficiency bulbs (50%) and their even more extreme cousins (80%, using a thinner filament and thinner glass) trade more lumens for shorter life. They have a life expectancy as little as a quarter as long as a standard halogen, so while the initial cost might be similar, you pay it more often.

[daazndood]

i was talking to a friend and he said xenons can damage headlight covers due to their heat. is this true? if so what measures are taken to prevent this?

[GriffGirl]

I wouldn't get those xenon bulbs off eBay if that's the route you're thinking of going. Yes, they're too hot - the best way to prevent them from melting your wiring (your lenses are glass, so they won't melt) is to get new pigtail sockets with higher gauge wires. Still, that's no guarantee. If you're looking for an inexpensive alternative to the standard color of halogen bulbs, Pilot makes bulbs that are whiter, they're $20/pr and won't melt your stuff. But neither the eBay ones nor the Pilot bulbs are going to be a replacement for good quality halogens, HIRs or HIDs.

[DEATH]

Then again your HIDs are very reasonable - IDK why anyone on here would look further.

[Rayme]

i was talking to a friend and he said xenons can damage headlight covers due to their heat. is this true? if so what measures are taken to prevent this?

Real HID's are wayyyyyyyyyyy cooler than halogens. Overwattage Halogen bulbs WILL damage stuff because its too hot.

[elvasoshexai]

i think real HIDs run @ 35W while stock halogens run @ 55W?... and then there are the ebay xenon gas filled halogen bulbs that run @ like... 100W? i believe those r the ones that melt harnesses...

and u can get HIR bulbs @ john deere... they don't actually look any brighter (maybe ever so slightly) but they light up the road a lot better still

[Galcobar]

There's two 100W ebay bulbs. The first is a halogen bulb with a blue tint that makes its colour temperature about the same as a clear 100W bulb, though its light production is significantly below that of a clear 55W bulb. The other is a 100W bulb, which draws enough power to melt your wiring and damage plastic in the socket or in cheap housings.