Changing oil Options

[RickJamesBish]

I know it's an elementary question, but I just need some opinions. I've put around 4000 miles on her and I'd like to keep everything as spry as possible, so therefore I'm going to have the oil changed regularly. How many of you do it on your own, and how easy is it to do? I'm guessing I won't need more than a catch pan and a couple tools.

Also, I know it's not "totally" necessary to do this a lot, but it's not abnormal to change it every 3000 miles, even if the oil light hasn't come on yet?

[bccentaur3]

oh no no no. Its is very important to change the oil every 3,000 miles if not sooner. If you want your car to last its a must. If you keep up with regular maintenance then I will guarentee your motor will last up to 250,000 miles if not more.

I change my own oil, but I plan to take my car to toyota in the next month to get her ready for winter.

[RickJamesBish]

Really? I've only ever heard of car enthusiasts talk about changing it at those times. Then why are services always scheduled in brackets of 10,000 or so miles?

[bccentaur3]

why wouldn't you want clean oil in your car lubbing all your internals up?

[Spider77]

Yeah, try for 3000, just better that way (although you might not see a need to) and a good habit to get into. As far as changing the oil, thats real easy. Get one of those drip pans that double as a container (makes transport to oil recy easier). Pretty much warm up the motor a bit, jack it up, pop the bolt and watch it drain. Dont forget to dothe oil filter as well.

[GotToyota]

Like I've said time and time again, the 3k mile oil interval change is a scam and a hoax. Today's oils will easily last 10k+ miles even under daily city driving. Read this thread for some more insight:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70780

I just did my oil change at 9k miles (Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic).

-Matt

[mr-belowaverage]

Also, I know it's not "totally" necessary to do this a lot, but it's not abnormal to change it every 3000 miles, even if the oil light hasn't come on yet?

OH MY GOD. That's not an oil light, that is an oil pressure warning light and it means your car doesn't have sufficient oil pressure to lubricate the engine at that moment. It means turn your engine off immediately and put oil in there and don't restart it until everything is ok. It does NOT mean start thinking about maybe swinging by jiffy lube next weekend.

Like I've said time and time again, the 3k mile oil interval change is a scam and a hoax. Today's oils will easily last 10k+ miles even under daily city driving.

The lubricating properties of today's oils, conventional and synthetic, will remain even after 10k miles, yes. BUT the dirt debris and contaminants that your oil filter removes will saturate that filter within 3000 miles every time. Especially if you're driving the average Toyota four, with its poor piston rings.

Basically, your oil becomes more and more like dirty unrefined oil as you drive. All the dirt in it is damaging your engine like death by pin pricks. Change you oil regularly if you like your engine.

[GotToyota]

Read that thread then get back to me.

[GotToyota]

Here, I'll quote it myself for those too lazy to read:

Originally Posted by /www.sae.org
"Title: Extended Oil Drain Intervals - Conservation of Resources Or Reduction of Engine Life (Part Ii)"
After reading that you may never change your oil again at even 10,000 miles!

There are millions of miles of oil analysis that not only prove short duration changes increase wear but also result in a lack of additive activation in the motor. If you own a Jiffy Lube then I would expect you to subscribe to the "3,000 mile Mentality" myth.

Oil additives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time i.e. longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!

Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000 kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the concern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade.

If you doubt the 10K oil change intervals perform an oil sample at 1,000 miles. Most cars with a fresh sump of oil will peak out at the 1,000 mile mark. After that the wear metals may increase by only 5-10% over the course of 10,000 miles! Nearly 90% of the engine wear occurs in the first 1,000 miles on an oil change! Increasing oil change frequency increases the duration your engine spends in the activation period of the additives and greatly increases the damage in your motor from failing to follow the guidelines of the manufacturer.

Just looking at iron in a VW motor typical readings are around 20-35 ppm after 15,000 miles of use maximum on a motor that has more than 60,000 miles. The oil filter is not capable of filtering this much metal simply because the wear metals are so small they can't be filtered from the oil. Also because there is so little wear metal you do not get wear as a result of the metal being suspended in the oil.

Dispersants require time to bond to the wear metals and byproducts in your engine oil. As byproducts such as soot (gasoline or diesel make soot just different sizes which discolor the oil) are created additives coat them and prevent them from clumping and becoming larger. Typical soot particles in diesel oil are in the nanometer range in terms of size 10 times smaller than what any bypass filter can even capture which is rated at 2 microns absolute. Your oil filter in your motor is rated at capturing particles in the 7 micron range with only a 75% first pass rating...Bottom line is your car would last forever if you change the oil every 20,000 miles and NEVER replace the oil filter simply because your motor is not making enough metal or by-products to ever get captured! Oils especially those for diesels can handle upwards of 8% soot, that my friend is a LOT of soot! To put that in perspective a typical motor after 25,000 miles without an oil change or filter change will only have 1% soot in the oil. This oil will appear tar black yet the oil still has 80% of its rated levels of protection remaining!

Most oils are limited by time in the sump rather than miles due to sulfur in the fuel. Most gasoline motors can safely go 2 years between changes when using quality oils formulated for extended drains such as Mobil 1 0w40 and Truck and SUV 5w40. These oils along with those sold as VOW 506.01 have very high TBN ratings that neutralize acid formation for upwards of two years (1 year in diesels due to higher sulfur content which causes the acids).

Here's the deal, forget the myths about frequent oil changes and basing your perceptions on how the oil looks. The best advice is use a quality oil and drain it at the specified interval. The worst thing you can do to a modern car is over maintain it, yes this is possible due to the very specific regimen that VW engineers figured out to keep your car running at peak performance with maximum durability.

Basically you're putting MORE wear on your motor changing it at 3k miles because the additives in the oil have just activated or haven't activated at all.

-Matt

[samir0189]

I use Mobil 1 Supersyn (fully synthetic) and I change my oil every 7000miles, I would go longer but with 238,xxx miles I'd rather not. And surprisingly, the oil remains clean, and still translucent, nowhere near black.

I use the Fram extended guard filter. And I must say, surprisingly, even though people think fram is at the bottom of the list, this filter cleans the oil extremely well. If you are using conventional oil, i would agree with the 3000 mile thing, cause that turns into sludge soon after 3k.

But if you are spending your money on synthetic, you are wasting your money by changing your oil every 3k, it is designed to be changed at longer intervals.

This post has been edited by samir0189: Oct 26, 2008 - 12:03 PM

[samir0189]

And Gottoyota is right, but only in cases where you are using a good quality oil. Amsoil's site states that for its 0w-30 oil..

Service Life
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

And the oil filter is changed at the same interval. It all depends on what oil you are using.

[GotToyota]

Yep, I'm currently using 10W-30 Amsoil, but the interval is 24,000 miles or one year instead of what you have above.

[RickJamesBish]

Yeah, try for 3000, just better that way (although you might not see a need to) and a good habit to get into. As far as changing the oil, thats real easy. Get one of those drip pans that double as a container (makes transport to oil recy easier). Pretty much warm up the motor a bit, jack it up, pop the bolt and watch it drain. Dont forget to dothe oil filter as well.

Okay, I will do that. What oil do you guys use/recommend, and where is this drain located exactly? And would the jack that came with the car (to change the tire) be fine, or would I need something else?

OH MY GOD. That's not an oil light, that is an oil pressure warning light and it means your car doesn't have sufficient oil pressure to lubricate the engine at that moment. It means turn your engine off immediately and put oil in there and don't restart it until everything is ok. It does NOT mean start thinking about maybe swinging by jiffy lube next weekend.

Thanks for clearing that up, you're a little sensitive on the subject?

[LewFX]

fram has gotten beter, they now remanufacture honda oil filters

[GotToyota]

Yeah, try for 3000, just better that way (although you might not see a need to) and a good habit to get into. As far as changing the oil, thats real easy. Get one of those drip pans that double as a container (makes transport to oil recy easier). Pretty much warm up the motor a bit, jack it up, pop the bolt and watch it drain. Dont forget to dothe oil filter as well.

Okay, I will do that. What oil do you guys use/recommend, and where is this drain located exactly? And would the jack that came with the car (to change the tire) be fine, or would I need something else?

Please don't change it every 3k, I beg you. You are doing your engine more harm than good.

-Matt

[samir0189]

Yep, I'm currently using 10W-30 Amsoil, but the interval is 24,000 miles or one year instead of what you have above.

Yeah I just chose a random one.

Yeah, try for 3000, just better that way (although you might not see a need to) and a good habit to get into. As far as changing the oil, thats real easy. Get one of those drip pans that double as a container (makes transport to oil recy easier). Pretty much warm up the motor a bit, jack it up, pop the bolt and watch it drain. Dont forget to dothe oil filter as well.

Okay, I will do that. What oil do you guys use/recommend, and where is this drain located exactly? And would the jack that came with the car (to change the tire) be fine, or would I need something else?

You don't really need to jack it up unless you have a larger build/body type or unless your car is lowered.

fram has gotten beter, they now remanufacture honda oil filters

Glad to hear that! I constantly get "OMG you use fram?!" from everyone. But I really don't see it as being all that bad, plus I don't live extremely close to a dealership to get OEM filters, and Fram is like the only other one in stores.

[Tigawoods]

Yeah, try for 3000, just better that way (although you might not see a need to) and a good habit to get into. As far as changing the oil, thats real easy. Get one of those drip pans that double as a container (makes transport to oil recy easier). Pretty much warm up the motor a bit, jack it up, pop the bolt and watch it drain. Dont forget to dothe oil filter as well.

Okay, I will do that. What oil do you guys use/recommend, and where is this drain located exactly? And would the jack that came with the car (to change the tire) be fine, or would I need something else?

Please don't change it every 3k, I beg you. You are doing your engine more harm than good.

-Matt

i dont see how it would at all.

a jack is not necessary. just get a low profile catch that will fit underneath the car.

[RickJamesBish]

Okay, that works. So where is that bolt located exactly? And what oil do you guys use?

[Tigawoods]

any 10w-30. penzoil castrol your preference. i used castrol.

look under the car and there is a 14mm (ithink or 12) bolt at the bottom of the oil pan. its pretty hard to miss

[RickJamesBish]

Okay, got it. Just making sure I don't unscrew the wrong thing.

[SoDo]

Depends on what your daily drive is like. If you do a lot of city driving, i would recommend changing it every 3000-5000 miles. If you do a lot of highway driving you can get away with changing it every 5000-7000. It also depends on what type of oil u are using. If you use full synthetic oil and a few ounces of SFR, you can get away with changing it every 10,000. You should always check your oil everytime you fill up with gas. My previous car was a 98 chevy malibu. I changed the oil every 10,000 miles since I only use full synthetic. When I got rear ended on the highway my chevy had 235,000 miles on the original motor and tranny. Not very common for a chevy. Only thing I replaced in that car was the water pump and alternator.

This post has been edited by SoDo: Oct 26, 2008 - 9:44 PM

[azian_advanced]

ok seeing that it is documented by sae then it should be fine. if im using full synthetic 10w30 oil, what would be the recommended oil change interval?
also, would replacing the oil filter every 3k (but keep the same oil) be a reasonable solution? then just top it off with new oil for the amount that leaked?

[bccentaur3]

well looks like I'll be changing my oil every 6000 miles. But I think I'm going to change my filter every 3,000.

[MaskedMan]

I'm in the habit of changing my oil every 3 months/5,000 miles since it's what we recommend at Toyota.

The drain plug is going to be a 14mm bolt on the oil pan. It's very easy to spot underneath the car. It would be a good idea to replace the drain plug washer too just to make sure that it seals well once tightened.

As for oil filters, I just use Toyota oil filters.

[GotToyota]

ok seeing that it is documented by sae then it should be fine. if im using full synthetic 10w30 oil, what would be the recommended oil change interval?
also, would replacing the oil filter every 3k (but keep the same oil) be a reasonable solution? then just top it off with new oil for the amount that leaked?

I would say 7-8k miles, if you do mostly highway driving then you can go up to 10k. You can keep the filter on for as long as the oil itself.

-Matt

[RickJamesBish]

So just a regular oil filter and 10w-30w oil?

[WWSideWinder]

What size is the oil Filter.

I'm looking to fit a "Sender Attachment for Oil Temp/Pressure" and it is avalable in


"Three Sizes Available
M18
M20 (out os stock) New stock coming in on the 24 Oct
3/4

Also would you suggest fitting this for the Oil Temp/Pressure or is ther a better palce on the 3S-FE motor to fit the sensors?

WWSideWinder

[chu808]

for oil filters, the oem is the best, but can be pricey, so you can use mobile 1. it is best to change your oil every 3000 cause if you notice after that when you start getting to 4000 or 5000 you the level will start going down. This is because the oil is being burnt off. What you can do is check it every time you wash your car. I'm sure you wash your car often. Just change it when it gets dirty or when the oil level is going down.

I use 10W30 mobile or castro synthetic, changing it every 3000 or around there. Oh yeah and another thing to consider, it's not a good idea to go to synthetic and then back to regular oil. Once you go synthetic stay synthetic. I wipe my car and truck down every friday when I get home from work, and it only takes 5 minutes to pop your hood and check to see if all your fuilds are good. Like bccentaur3 said if you keep up your regular maint. then your engine will last.

keep in mind changing oil also varies by the way you drive and if you drive in traffic, or use high revs

[MaskedMan]

If you go with an OEM toyota filter. The filter size is going to be the F2 filter.

[RickJamesBish]

F2 filter, got it. And what kind of oil? I have no idea what's in there right, I never bothered to ask the dealer.

[Bitter]

10w30 is fine, 5w30 if its super cold in the winter where you live. i prefer to run 10w30 synthetic year round and i use mobil1 oil and either purlator pureone filters or a mobil1 filter.

[RickJamesBish]

Thanks man.

[brk34]

I have an ST of the same year just make sure you have a good breaker bar to remove the drain plug. My ratchet was too short and I had to borrow a breaker bar.

[RickJamesBish]

What's a breaker bar?

[trdproven]

If I'm lucky, I can get 500 miles in 3 months but I still do an oil change because over time oil loses it viscosity or balance. You can say its 3 months first or 3,000 miles whatever comes first no matter how much you've driven it.

[Tigawoods]

What's a breaker bar?

like a bar (metal tube) to put on the ratchet so you get more leverage

[samir0189]

What's a breaker bar?

like a bar (metal tube) to put on the ratchet so you get more leverage

not to call you out or anything, but i always thought it was a bar that did not ratchet. Although that's a good way to improvise if you don't have a breaker bar. I believe it gets its name from being able to "break" free stuck bolts because of the added torque you can place due to the length of the bar.

Either way, I personally think that the drain bolt is a tad bit too tight if you need a breaker bar. Don't you risk breaking [no pun intended] the drain bolt and ending up with the threaded stud in the pan by tightening it so much?

[Remy]

I remember once I hadn't change my oil and it was up to 4k miles my car ran like crap and smoked alot through the exhaust until I changed the oil after that my car ran better/faster and stopped smoking what does that say ?? I don't know though it goes both ways experience and what you read, what can you believe these days ??

I only use mobil 1 5w30 w/ mobil 1 oil filter btw.

[azian_advanced]

doesn't it say on your oil cap what oil type you should use? mine says 10w-30, what about yours?

[MaskedMan]

doesn't it say on your oil cap what oil type you should use? mine says 10w-30, what about yours?

Yeah it should be printed onto the stock oil cap. Mine says 10w-30 too.

And a metal pole or attachment added to a ratchet for leverage is called a "cheater bar". A breaker bar is an actual tool that is just a longer non ratcheting version used to "break" loose harder to get bolts. You should not need to apply that much torque onto a drain plug bolt. If you need a breaker bar to remove it, it's either on too tight, or you are just very weak (that's not directed towards you personally haha, it's just another possibility for needing to use such a tool).

It doesn't take a lot of torque to strip the threads to the oil pan, so when you tighten it, just tighten it with enough force where the washer is sealed and you know it won't leak.

This post has been edited by MaskedMan: Nov 1, 2008 - 11:55 PM

[brk34]

Yeah I think the Dealer who changed the oil last made the bolt too tight.

[Remy]

doesn't it say on your oil cap what oil type you should use? mine says 10w-30, what about yours?

Oops I meant mostly 10w30 I just switched to 5w30 for the weather.

[MaskedMan]

Yeah I think the Dealer who changed the oil last made the bolt too tight.

Yeah thing about dealers is that they typically over torque a lot of bolts "just to be safe". Reason being is because it will start with one loose bolt, then a missing bolt, then something will happen resulting in a lawsuit against the dealership.