Fogs won't turn on. Options

[RickJamesBish]

This happened in the morning as I turned on the accessories. Put down the windows and turned on the music without starting the car as usual, but as soon as I did that the power died. Tried to start the car, nothing. Went to pop the hood to check the battery, and tried it again and it started. Haven't had a problem with that since, but I've noticed that my fogs (non-factory) won't turn on at all anymore.

Short in a fuse somewhere? I always have them on, and the HU is constantly on as well, so as soon as the accessories are on they are also on along with everything else.

[RickJamesBish]

Anyone please?

[RickJamesBish]

Anyone?

[RickJamesBish]

Anyone?

[WWSideWinder]

Hi RickJamesBish

Don't know if I can Help but lets try.

1) Is you battery ok now?
2) Is there any think else that is not working?
3) Have you checked your fuses Both Fuse Boxes? (In the Car and near to the Battery)
4) Have you checked the wiring at the fog lamps?

Answer these and then we may be able to fix this.
Search this sight for wiring diagrams.

"http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/95ewd/circuit.htm"

[RickJamesBish]

Thanks man for helping, I'll look at it later on this afternoon. It died again this morning...turned the ignition off, left it like that for a minute or two, and it jumped on again. I checked the fuse box and nothing seemed to be blown there, as far as I can tell with my inexperience. I'll check the one close to the battery and the wiring too.

[geetje]

Try to start the car before turning on the lights, perhaps your radio or something else is draining to much power from the battery.

[GriffGirl]

Does the battery have one of those tags on it that's punched with the install month and year? It could just be that your battery is nearing its end of life. You could also get it checked at an Autozone or NAPA or a place like that that tests batteries - they'll be able to test for the cold cranking amps your battery holds, which will determine if your battery is dying or if you should start checking some wiring. Also - are your terminals clean? Sometimes weird grease-like gunk can build up on the terminals, and it actually acts as a conductor and could potentially drain the battery just enough that it won't start.

Get that battery checked soon though so you don't put unnecessary load on your alternator. You don't wanna wind up replacing the battery AND alternator if you can avoid it!

[RickJamesBish]

Okay, I'll get it checked out...I checked both fuse boxes and the terminals, everything checked out fine...it must be an electrical issue, assuming they're still connected fine.

[D-Man]

1) check & reinforce ground connections
2) check & tighten alternator belt
3) start car before running system, especially if you've got amps n' stuff
4) check the wiring to your fog lights directly, usualy there is a direct inline fuse there, or otherwise you may have blown your bulbs with your kooky power fluctuations.

Question marks and profit with everything working properly.

[RickJamesBish]

HMM, since you love to teach so much...alternator belt is which one exactly? I'll look and see which ones I can find in a sec. I'll check the chit running to the fogs...although the bulbs themselves AFAIK are fine. Don't see how I could've screwed something up like that.

[D-Man]

HMM, since you love to teach so much...alternator belt is which one exactly? I'll look and see which ones I can find in a sec. I'll check the chit running to the fogs...although the bulbs themselves AFAIK are fine. Don't see how I could've screwed something up like that.

AFAIK?

The screwing up would have been on behalf of the power flux when it didn't start/ power distributed unevenly. It's rare, but happens. The alternator belt is on your alternator Just playin The alternator is the roundish machine on the top front most left side (when facing engine bay) of your engine bay with a belt on it. There is a tensinor on it that you can adjust to make sure it's tight. Ensure that the ground comming off your altinator is good.

I cannot find a good engine bay pic right now, otherwise i'd just circle it for you

[RickJamesBish]

I'll check...it's so facking weird. A dying battery does sound right, since I've always started all the accessories and never had one problem. If the connections to the fogs check out fine, could it be that the battery is too weak to supply power to the fogs additional to the interior lights and the speakers/head unit? I can still turn on regular lights just fine.

Also, I've noticed that my lights actually flicker a bit with the rhythm of the bass...weird. Sucks since this battery was new when I bought the car, I think.

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Nov 12, 2008 - 4:38 PM

[D-Man]

That's why i say to check the alternator. It is what recharges your battery, and powers your car when it is running, if it's loose, it could only be running enough power to run the car and not enough to restore decent charge to your battary, or the batt could be going bad. If your lights are flickering then look into a capacitor.

[RickJamesBish]

Checked the belt, it was tight enough to me. The fuses are all intact. I couldn't really distinguish a wire connection by the fogs, but I'm guessing they're fine...I'll get the battery checked this weekend.

That's why i say to check the alternator. It is what recharges your battery, and powers your car when it is running, if it's loose, it could only be running enough power to run the car and not enough to restore decent charge to your battary, or the batt could be going bad. If your lights are flickering then look into a capacitor.

So what could be tell-tale physical signs of failure? I didn't see any loose connections, and like I said the belt seemed fine.

[D-Man]

sorry for the wait, apparently they want me to work here at work WTF is up with that

(now this is old-school, and i'm sure playr will be here to rag on me soon enough) The best (easiest and cheapest) way is to start your car, unplug your battery, crank you system and let the engine rip (but in neutral, dont actualy go burning down the freeway like that) If your altinator isn't working properly, then the car will die/spudder depending on how much charge it's actualy getting. Now if you have a friend, then you can allow one person to sit in the car, and the other to use a multi-meter and then calculate what the numbers would be IF you were revving the engine. I like option one best. but i also like making noise

[DEATH]

The way lights work tho if it was getting even some power than the bulbs themselves would at least glow a little - maybe not enough to light up the lamp or to cast light out like it's supposed to but you would see at least the bulbs glowing. I'm betting it's in the wiring, switch relays etc.

[RickJamesBish]

(now this is old-school, and i'm sure playr will be here to rag on me soon enough) The best (easiest and cheapest) way is to start your car, unplug your battery, crank you system and let the engine rip (but in neutral, dont actualy go burning down the freeway like that) If your altinator isn't working properly, then the car will die/spudder depending on how much charge it's actualy getting. Now if you have a friend, then you can allow one person to sit in the car, and the other to use a multi-meter and then calculate what the numbers would be IF you were revving the engine. I like option one best. but i also like making noise

How is the car supposed to run with an unplugged battery, if I may ask?

The way lights work tho if it was getting even some power than the bulbs themselves would at least glow a little - maybe not enough to light up the lamp or to cast light out like it's supposed to but you would see at least the bulbs glowing. I'm betting it's in the wiring, switch relays etc.

Okay.

[GriffGirl]

Dude. Seriously. Get it started and go to Autozone or whatever to get the cold cranking amps checked. They do it for free and it's a quick and easy way to eliminate the battery.

I'm guessing it's a wire, too. I bet it's something to the fogs themselves, maybe a ground came loose or something. But get that battery checked. Just cause the dealer said it was new doesn't mean it was.

[DEATH]

(now this is old-school, and i'm sure playr will be here to rag on me soon enough) The best (easiest and cheapest) way is to start your car, unplug your battery, crank you system and let the engine rip (but in neutral, dont actualy go burning down the freeway like that) If your altinator isn't working properly, then the car will die/spudder depending on how much charge it's actualy getting. Now if you have a friend, then you can allow one person to sit in the car, and the other to use a multi-meter and then calculate what the numbers would be IF you were revving the engine. I like option one best. but i also like making noise

How is the car supposed to run with an unplugged battery, if I may ask?

The car doesn't actually run off the battery - the battery is just a battery. In other words it's used to start the car and store a charge for the next start. The alternator supplies the power the car runs on and the power to recharge the battery. Go to howstuffworks.com and read the section on car charging systems so that we can help you diagnose this problem easier.

[RickJamesBish]

Dude. Seriously. Get it started and go to Autozone or whatever to get the cold cranking amps checked. They do it for free and it's a quick and easy way to eliminate the battery.

I'm guessing it's a wire, too. I bet it's something to the fogs themselves, maybe a ground came loose or something. But get that battery checked. Just cause the dealer said it was new doesn't mean it was.

I will in the weekend, no time now.

The car doesn't actually run off the battery - the battery is just a battery. In other words it's used to start the car and store a charge for the next start. The alternator supplies the power the car runs on and the power to recharge the battery. Go to howstuffworks.com and read the section on car charging systems so that we can help you diagnose this problem easier.

Thanks, stupid question. I should know that

Thanks to you guys for putting up with me.

[CelicaST_CALI]

hell we put up with d-man,putting up with you is easy

[samir0189]

well rickjames idk what your electrical problem is, but for one, its always best to start the car before turning on electronics, you're sucking directly from the battery when you do that.

And in the event its your alternator thats giving problems (not saying it is..), i learned an AWESOME trick from my father.


Keep a mini hammer or something of the sort with you... and

If you happen to be out driving when the alternator is failing, the battery light will come on. When that happens if you're quick you can pull aside, beat the crap out of the alternator, and it will begin to start charging again( you'll know cause the battery light will turn off), and give you another few miles, and you can keep doing this til you get somewhere safe/desirable. I once made it from Sarasota to Orlando with that trick! It was annoying as hell though! LOL.

This post has been edited by samir0189: Nov 12, 2008 - 9:30 PM

[DEATH]

Works with starters sometimes too. However, I think the idea is to fix it before it gets this bad

[D-Man]

...when the alternator is failing... ...beat the crap out of the alternator...

Sounds like a skill I should know of. And here i've just been changing em when they go out WTF was I thinking

[Batman722]

I think you have a bad relay.

[RickJamesBish]

Alternator is fine. There's no way to get to the actual fogs since there's plastic trim under the car, might have to just unscrew them.

[D-Man]

Okay, We off tracked there... the alternator mess was directed at your car not starting/dying.

The foggs is a fuse or a relay somewhere, or a ground out of place or a bad wiring connection or worse case, blown bulbs. There is absolutely nothing else it could be unless you've got some strange Martian technology in there. And if that is case... Then I cannot help.

[RickJamesBish]

I got you...well, the fogs dying is a result of the car not starting, I think. Either way, the alternator is good. The fogs are actually factory, methinks, so where could I get a wiring diagram?

[D-Man]

I got you...well, the fogs dying is a result of the car not starting, I think. Either way, the alternator is good. The fogs are actually factory, methinks, so where could I get a wiring diagram?

I see griff lurking. I know good and well she's got one... i'll find you one if she dosen't first. But you can start with THIS

This post has been edited by D-Man: Nov 13, 2008 - 4:36 PM

[GriffGirl]

Looking at your profile, yes, your fogs are factory.

PM me your email address and I'll email you whatever I can scrounge up from the BGB.

[RickJamesBish]

Got the wiring diagrams from Griff...I shall check everything out tomorrow afternoon. Or Saturday.

[Batman722]

Check the relay.

[RickJamesBish]

That works quite well, thanks man.

[RickJamesBish]

Batman, your diagram looks different than mine. Maybe because it's a GT?

[njccmd2002]

so the problem is that you car dies, when you put the fogs?

or your fogs simply not working. can you detail?

I have read the whole post, and i really want to know your real problem. Im Interested.

[GriffGirl]

Batman, your diagram looks different than mine. Maybe because it's a GT?

That shouldn't matter. The relay photo he's showing you isn't under the hood, it's under the dash panel, in the footwell against the fender ("A" pillar). If you remove the piece of plastic that's next to your left foot when you're driving, you'll see all that stuff. Sorry I misdirected you about it possibly being under the hood w/the other relays - it was a guess. Us lowly 94 ST owners didn't get factory fogs

[RickJamesBish]

I have read the whole post, and i really want to know your real problem. Im Interested

Okay. Just as added safety and awesomeness, I always had my fogs on. My HU also turns on automatically, so when I turn on the accessories, I have a HU, the fogs, and the headlights coming on. This created stress on the battery, and one day I did this and the car died. After turning everything off, the battery came to life again and it was fine. It happened again a few days later, but now I've just learned to turn my car on before I do all that. Alternator is fine, I'm getting the battery checked today. But since that happened, I haven't been able to turn my fogs on. Headlights and high beams work just fine. Pretty sure it's not the physical connection to the fogs, most likely it's electrical.

That shouldn't matter. The relay photo he's showing you isn't under the hood, it's under the dash panel, in the footwell against the fender ("A" pillar). If you remove the piece of plastic that's next to your left foot when you're driving, you'll see all that stuff. Sorry I misdirected you about it possibly being under the hood w/the other relays - it was a guess. Us lowly 94 ST owners didn't get factory fogs

Fackdammit! But thanks, I'll remove that...I only looked at that little relay/fuse panel that comes off, so all the left-side plastic has to go? Because I didn't see any of those fuses when I opened that part up. No wonder I didn't have any luck under the hood.

BTW Griff, I don't think they're stock after all...stupid me. The switch isn't on the stalk, it's where the fog button would usually be...but it's owner installed, I think.



This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Nov 15, 2008 - 11:10 AM

[njccmd2002]

well if they are not stock. Just do like the wizard of oz. Follow the yellow copper wire. More likely the wire is aftermarket and it may be rubbing itself against metal. therefore there might be a fuse inside that vent that went off. and when it shorted it must have drained the battery.

just some toughts

[RickJamesBish]

Wire from the fogs to wherever it goes? That would involve removing the plastic guards under the car...alright, I'll give it a whirl.

[hurley97]

You have a '97, meaning your car is prewired for those fogs. All you need is the stalk w/ fog switch, the relay, and the fogs which you already have. The plugs for them are hanging behind the fog light itself. If the used the factory wiring for them they would only come on when your headlights are on.

I would suggest you get a stalk and relay and hook up the fogs the way the should be, that way you know they won't cause any problems.

[RickJamesBish]

I see your point, but I was fine with the way it was before so I don't see a need to change it, just wanna get it right again.

[hurley97]

Then you need to figure out how they are currently wired in so people can properly help you troubleshoot the problem.

[RickJamesBish]

I get your point...but I'm assuming they're factory wired like you said? Only the switch is placed above the left side vent.

[hurley97]

again...

Then you need to figure out how they are currently wired in so people can properly help you troubleshoot the problem.

Don't assume how it's wired and make sure, people can't help you properly with only information based on assumptions.


Check for the relay Dustin (Batman) mentioned on pg2, take the fog lights out and see if they're plugged into the stock wiring, follow the wiring from the switch on the inside and see where it splices into.

This post has been edited by hurley97: Nov 20, 2008 - 7:59 PM

[RickJamesBish]

Flipped the switch for poops and giggles and they magically came on...so it's not a fuse. Now the problem is figuring out where the wires are loose and not properly grounded. Would it be advisable to keep them off since I was told that an electrical fire could be started? They've worked properly ever since though.