2 Stage 3SGTE Swap thread, Stage 1.. almost done =) Options

[SlvrCelica09]

EDIT: 8/22/09
Ok guys before commenting just know my goal is 330 hp until all 2 stages is complete.. so keep that in mind when reading my setup:

95 toyota celica GT
ST205 3sgte swap
GT tranny and axles
Stage 3 clutch kit and flywheel(deciding between 2 I like)
EDIT: ST205 fuel pump
3 inch exhaust(already installed)
ST205 downpipe

Now in order to move on to stage 3 I need to figure out which engine I want.. parts for the 185(non RC) I have found to be relatively easy in case something breaks.. alot of sites have parts for the engine.. but it turns out the 185 wiring is harder than the 205.. im leaning towards the 205.. although i think finding parts for the engine is harder.. the swap should be a bit easier and at stock I would be right at my goal which is 250 hp running stock... i know for a fact there wont be an urge to raise booast levels since stage 2(AWD Conversion) of my swap would not be completed.. and this is my only car which i use for work and not for racing intentions.. 4 now.. lol

so basically I got 2 questions that have been killing me for a while now..
axles.. is it possible to mix and match GT tranny with 3sge axles.. if so that would be a delight but I highly doubt you can.. but im asking for clarification.. and 2.. what engine do you guys think I should go with.. 185 or 205?

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 26, 2009 - 6:32 PM

[mk7celica]

I had my swap done a few months ago and I wish I had gotten a 3rd gen st205 in stead of the st185 I got. It seems like I could have done more mods and gotten more power with a st205. With the st185 It seems like it harer to get more power and cost more money.

[_Jim_]

It seems like I could have done more mods and gotten more power with a st205. With the st185 It seems like it harer to get more power and cost more money.

Thats because it is.

Comparing the 2 setups (GEN2 vs GEN3), both cars with the same mods (intake, exhaust, stock turbo, stock ECU, etc) the GEN2 maxes out at about 240whp, and requires between 3-5000$ to get above 275whp. The GEN3 maxs out at about 330whp, and can be taken to above 360whp on stock ECU and stock Injectors.

GEN3 parts are becoming VERY easy to obtain now that these swaps are becoming more and more popular.....I never have to wait more than a week for parts.

GEN3 FTW

[lagos]

If you can afford it, get a 3rd gen. If money is tight, get a 2nd gen.

the GEN2 maxes out at about 240whp, and requires between 3-5000$ to get above 275whp.

How do you figure it takes 3-5000 to go aboove 275hp? Id argue that it can be done in well under a grand.

btw, the 3sge uses the same s53/54 tranny as our celica GT. There is no difference between their axles or trans with our gt setup. If you want some nice and beeffy looking axles, I recommend going to carquest and getting the new axles Cardone makes.

[95st-celica]

why do you need to mix and match axles? buy 2 brand new axles for a GT and call it a day...they will last you for quite some time...no need to worry...between the gen 2 and gen 3...thats up to you...i think i MIGHT have gone with a 3rd gen...but at the time i had my mind set on a st185 clip that i got from hong kong. now yes the 3rd gen has more horsepower stock for stock...but once your reach a little over 300HP the playing feild is about the same...then gen 2 can be made to handle just as much power as a gen 3...its just little improvments that were done to the 3rd gen to get out an extra 35-40 horsepower....as for wireing....its all a nightmare...doesnt matter which way you look at it...205, 185, whatever...my advice would be send it out and have someone do it professionally..cough cough Tweak cough cough...i got lucky and had Mr. mad scientist himself do mine...heres a couple things you should read up on espically before you jump into a swap.

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825

all your answers will be in either one of them ^

[_Jim_]

the GEN2 maxes out at about 240whp, and requires between 3-5000$ to get above 275whp.

How do you figure it takes 3-5000 to go aboove 275hp? Id argue that it can be done in well under a grand.

I am not talking making 300whp relying on meth and SAFC tuning. To me the extra 25-30whp that offers you just inst worth the risk of your Water injection failing, and toasting your motor.

I am basically talking race proven results for the GEN2. Whether you go ATS Tuned Rom Combo (there TD06 kit sells for 3100), or Full EMS, fuel, and turbo kit..... 1500-2000 for an EMS, 2000-3000 for a turbo kit, 400 for injectos, and 500 for a tune.

If by making over 275whp on the GEN2 for under 1000 you mean buying a CT20B, adjustable FPR, bumping base pressure, throwing on an SAFC, etc.....You STILL WOULDNT be making the power that the GEN3 makes stock......so the small savings in going GEN2, and then spending the extra 1000$.....all just to do LESS than what the GEN3 does stock negligible.

Basically, anyway you look at it, the GEN3 will ALWAYS make 80+ MORE whp then the GEN2 when still all on the stock ECU.

[lagos]

Basically, anyway you look at it, the GEN3 will ALWAYS make 80+ MORE whp then the GEN2 when still all on the stock ECU.

What is it about the motor that will always make 80hp more?

I am not talking making 300whp relying on meth and SAFC tuning.

If by making over 275whp on the GEN2 for under 1000 you mean buying a CT20B, adjustable FPR, bumping base pressure, throwing on an SAFC, etc.....

I actually was thinking of a totally different setup.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 13, 2009 - 8:47 PM

[_Jim_]

Basically, anyway you look at it, the GEN3 will ALWAYS make 80+ MORE whp then the GEN2 when still all on the stock ECU.

What is it about the motor that will always make 80hp more?

Better designed Intake manifold, better cams, etc.....But that wasnt what I was really referring to. Granted these parts clearly help make more power.....the real advantage to the GEN3 is the 540cc injectors. With any turbo car (ESPECIALLY THE 3SGTE) , your biggest battle will always be fuel......so when comparing the GEN2 440cc injectors to the GEN3 540cc injectors....No matter how far you take the GEN2 on stock injectors and stock ECU.....you will ALWAYAS have an additonal 80+ more WHP worth of FUEL with the GEN3.

To simplify that a bit more....take "X turbo kit" and put one on each motor set (GEN2 and GEN3) and all other mods being identical (ie. Intake, exhaust, etc). You make 280whp at 15psi on the GEN2, and that is where you are limtied to due to the stock 440cc injectors, and stock ECU.......NOW, take that same turbo and install it on a GEN3 with equal mods and it will make a bit over 300whp at 15psi (the same boost level).....but you ARE NOT LIMTED THERE, you have enough fuel to turn up the boost to say 20psi and make 360whp....showing 80+whp gain over the limits of the GEN2....which will ALWYAS be the case when comparing GEN2 on stock ECU and injectors vs GEN3 on stock ECU and injectors.

I actually was thinking of a totally different setup.

Please share.

[SlvrCelica09]

ok lets stay on topic u guys.. i dont want this thread closed.. but thanks for the advice.. I think ill go with Gen 3 and leave everything stock.. ill post some pics of the engine that i buy when the time comes

[SlvrCelica09]

why do you need to mix and match axles? buy 2 brand new axles for a GT and call it a day...they will last you for quite some time...no need to worry...between the gen 2 and gen 3...thats up to you...i think i MIGHT have gone with a 3rd gen...but at the time i had my mind set on a st185 clip that i got from hong kong. now yes the 3rd gen has more horsepower stock for stock...but once your reach a little over 300HP the playing feild is about the same...then gen 2 can be made to handle just as much power as a gen 3...its just little improvments that were done to the 3rd gen to get out an extra 35-40 horsepower....as for wireing....its all a nightmare...doesnt matter which way you look at it...205, 185, whatever...my advice would be send it out and have someone do it professionally..cough cough Tweak cough cough...i got lucky and had Mr. mad scientist himself do mine...heres a couple things you should read up on espically before you jump into a swap.

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825

all your answers will be in either one of them ^

i dont think u understood what i meant.. i didnt say mix and match axles.. i meant mix and match the Gt tranny with 3sge axles.. but im going go with GT tranny and axles.. and im def not "jumping into a swap" this has been planned since 2006 bro.. ive read jeff's 3sgte swap how to a zillion times lol.. ill see what the plan will be for the wiring when the time comes.. got some ppl in my area that have swapped jdm engines into celicas b4.. or i may just do it myself

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Apr 13, 2009 - 10:32 PM

[Celicia]

ok of course go with the 3rd gen please.. dont worry about the parts I can get you whatever you need Mike .. however I would suggest you do AWD conversion first.. well at least you will do it down the road so thats good.. let me know when you buy the engine.. I will help you as much as I can.

[95st-celica]

Basically, anyway you look at it, the GEN3 will ALWAYS make 80+ MORE whp then the GEN2 when still all on the stock ECU.

What is it about the motor that will always make 80hp more?

Better designed Intake manifold, better cams, etc.....But that wasnt what I was really referring to. Granted these parts clearly help make more power.....the real advantage to the GEN3 is the 540cc injectors. With any turbo car (ESPECIALLY THE 3SGTE) , your biggest battle will always be fuel......so when comparing the GEN2 440cc injectors to the GEN3 540cc injectors....No matter how far you take the GEN2 on stock injectors and stock ECU.....you will ALWAYAS have an additonal 80+ more WHP worth of FUEL with the GEN3.

To simplify that a bit more....take "X turbo kit" and put one on each motor set (GEN2 and GEN3) and all other mods being identical (ie. Intake, exhaust, etc). You make 280whp at 15psi on the GEN2, and that is where you are limtied to due to the stock 440cc injectors, and stock ECU.......NOW, take that same turbo and install it on a GEN3 with equal mods and it will make a bit over 300whp at 15psi (the same boost level).....but you ARE NOT LIMTED THERE, you have enough fuel to turn up the boost to say 20psi and make 360whp....showing 80+whp gain over the limits of the GEN2....which will ALWYAS be the case when comparing GEN2 on stock ECU and injectors vs GEN3 on stock ECU and injectors.

I actually was thinking of a totally different setup.

Please share.

jim..besides the injectors, cams, and a few other things the gen 2 and 3 are EXACTLY the same platform...with a tune and larger injectors and cams..the 2nd gen will have no problem making numbers to match a 3rd gen, not to mention upgrading to a ct20b...stock for stock yes the 3rd gen does put out more power...but with little adjustments and for not a lot of money you can easily obtain over 300hp with a 2nd gen in basically stock form...a 3rd gen motor is like a 2nd gen with upgraded stock mods. of course the 3rd gen will put out more power then the 2nd gen but needless to say once both motors have to have upgraded cams, fuel rails, injectors, turbos, etc the playing feild is even. i know you know your **** and im not telling you anything you dont already know..dont get me wrong...but the point im trying to make is that both motors are basically identical, with the 3rd gen having updated and more sophiscated(if you will) modifications stock from toyota

[95st-celica]

why do you need to mix and match axles? buy 2 brand new axles for a GT and call it a day...they will last you for quite some time...no need to worry...between the gen 2 and gen 3...thats up to you...i think i MIGHT have gone with a 3rd gen...but at the time i had my mind set on a st185 clip that i got from hong kong. now yes the 3rd gen has more horsepower stock for stock...but once your reach a little over 300HP the playing feild is about the same...then gen 2 can be made to handle just as much power as a gen 3...its just little improvments that were done to the 3rd gen to get out an extra 35-40 horsepower....as for wireing....its all a nightmare...doesnt matter which way you look at it...205, 185, whatever...my advice would be send it out and have someone do it professionally..cough cough Tweak cough cough...i got lucky and had Mr. mad scientist himself do mine...heres a couple things you should read up on espically before you jump into a swap.

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825

all your answers will be in either one of them ^

i dont think u understood what i meant.. i didnt say mix and match axles.. i meant mix and match the Gt tranny with 3sge axles.. but im going go with GT tranny and axles.. and im def not "jumping into a swap" this has been planned since 2006 bro.. ive read jeff's 3sgte swap how to a zillion times lol.. ill see what the plan will be for the wiring when the time comes.. got some ppl in my area that have swapped jdm engines into celicas b4.. or i may just do it myself

i could have sworn you said 3sge and stock gt axles...unless you edited it out...either way it doesnt matter...your GT axles will hold over 250hp..for quite some time..go to carquest to get your axles...they are a little beefier then the stock ones and are of nice quality...as for the links i posted...it looks like you joined recently so i wasnt sure if you were a noob or not, talking about how you wanna go stage 3 with your motor and slapping on a huge turbo....as long as you research you'll be fine...and as for the wireing harness...have you done a harness before? just out of curiosity? if not it is very difficult, reading diagrams, and getting everything right...good luck either way, im not trying to put you down..just giving you advice i though you might appreciate

[lagos]

i meant mix and match the Gt tranny with 3sge axles..

the 3sge motor actually uses the same s53/54 trans and the same axles as the celica gt.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 13, 2009 - 11:50 PM

[Celicia]

This post has been edited by Celicia: Apr 14, 2009 - 12:01 AM

[_Jim_]

ok lets stay on topic u guys.. i dont want this thread closed.. but thanks for the advice.. I think ill go with Gen 3 and leave everything stock.. ill post some pics of the engine that i buy when the time comes

It is a shame SilverCelica09, that when a dispute/argument/difference of opinion arises, the thread gets cleaned/deleted.....Even if there is solid information to be had. I cant see this being deleted because there is NO hostility amongst any of the members here.....and it is just hashing out ideas basically.

jim..besides the injectors, cams, and a few other things the gen 2 and 3 are EXACTLY the same platform...with a tune and larger injectors and cams..the 2nd gen will have no problem making numbers to match a 3rd gen, not to mention upgrading to a ct20b...stock for stock yes the 3rd gen does put out more power...but with little adjustments and for not a lot of money you can easily obtain over 300hp with a 2nd gen in basically stock form...a 3rd gen motor is like a 2nd gen with upgraded stock mods. of course the 3rd gen will put out more power then the 2nd gen but needless to say once both motors have to have upgraded cams, fuel rails, injectors, turbos, etc the playing feild is even. i know you know your **** and im not telling you anything you dont already know..dont get me wrong...but the point im trying to make is that both motors are basically identical, with the 3rd gen having updated and more sophiscated(if you will) modifications stock from toyota

No offense taken man, this is good information.

You are very much correct in saying the GEN2 and GEN3 become the same platform above a certain WHP number, but it most certainly isnt 300whp. The GEN2 and GEN3 basically become the same platform when going above 400+ WHP. I didnt mean it to sounds as tho the GEN2 could NEVER make the same power as the GEN3, because that is clearly not the case.....What I was trying to get across was that the GEN3 is a MUCH cheaper and more efficient solution for 400 sub WHP.

The problem with the GEN2 (and GEN3 for that matter) is that you cant just swap in bigger injectors and tune out the fuel you dont need like you can do with a 5sfte.....and that is what makes modding a GEN2 VERY expensive......the fuel management end. Dont get me wrong, if you want above 400WHP on a GEN3, you will need an EMS also, BUT......you DONT need an EMS until 400whp, where as a GEN2 you need some sort of fuel management to go over 280whp.

Art, post up the "setup" that you had in mind for the GEN2 that could be had for under 1000.

[lagos]

You are very much correct in saying the GEN2 and GEN3 become the same platform above a certain WHP number, but it most certainly isnt 300whp. The GEN2 and GEN3 basically become the same platform when going above 400+ WHP.

RickyB would have to disagree with you.

The problem with the GEN2 (and GEN3 for that matter) is that you cant just swap in bigger injectors and tune out the fuel you dont need like you can do with a 5sfte

Why not? Because the mr2 community says so? For years those guys have been guilty of never thinking outside the box.
Its funny how all communities stick to one way of thinking. Ask the mr2 guys and they will hate on the safc. Talk to the supra guys and they will swear by the mapecu, go to the subaru guys and they will tell you to retune your car because you changed the color of your rims.

I would love to go into more detail, but Im kind of holding back for two reasons.
1. for some reason these types of debates get deleted on here faster then you can type them
2. Regardless of what I say, I think you will just come back with some kind of reply that shows the 3rd gen motor is touched by the hand of god.

Dont get me wrong, Id rock a 3rd gen motor in a heat beat. Anything is better then the ****ty AFM based EFI and the peashooter turbo. But change those two things, and the playing field is level for both motors.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 14, 2009 - 12:31 PM

[95st-celica]

let us recall the test done by ATS and HUX

First HUX's Racing.....Mods list:
Stock GEN3
4" intake
Blitz SBC boost controller
3" single tip exhaust
boost cut defeated.
Helper Spring
100 octane

Max of 351whp at around 5700 rpms at 22psi (highest psi logged, 24psi at 3700rps, falling to 20psi at redline)...AFR around 11.5

ATS Racing.....Mods list:
Stock GEN2 with GEN3 electronics
3.5" intake
Power FC
Walbro fuel pump
550's
ATS FPR (50 psi)
ATS Rail
Greddy PE exhaust
3" downpipe
Helper Spring
C16 race gas

Max of 353whp at around 5700 rpms at 25psi(highest psi logged, 26psi at 5200rps, faliing to 25.5psi at redline).....AFR around 13.0

Hux......................ATS
CT20B..................CT27
351whp................353whp
22psi....................25psi
AFR 11.5...............AFR 13.0
Stock ECU............Tuned via Power FC

now grant it the gen 2 had 3rd gen electronics...that evens out, it matches the turbo ct27-ct20b i would have to say is somewhat evenly matched..a lot more so then the ct26-the ct20b, and the injectors were bumped up on the 2nd gen...everything else is esentially even...3" exhaust, intake, both are using a helper spring, and using higher octane. Yes the c16 race gas does help a bit more...but this is a pretty even test between the 2 motors..which is a perfect example of how capable a gen 2 is compared to a gen 3. i would say with the mods listed ATS spent about a $1200 more on the gen 2 to put up equal numbers. Not to mention the 2nd gen is probably running stock cams where as the gen 3 has a leg up in that catogory. we could go back and forth about this crap all day long and still get nowhere...but this is a perfect example of not going over 355HP and both motors are putting out equal numbers with little done.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

alright well ill add my little part to this thread!
FTW! u choose the motor 2nd gen or 3rd gen! both motors are a 3SGTE!..both have things that our stock GT's dont have! so for that part u choose it, just research and decide for yourself, what u want. as for the tranny..i would rather u go with the e153 tranny but if money is tight u can use the GT tranny it will hold down the power you are looking for..just dont beat the living hell of it!..
the harness humm...it seems as if your still a virgin on converting harnesses over...so just have someone do it for u..talk to tweak or other people that have done it before.. but first decide on what motor u want!

[_Jim_]

You are very much correct in saying the GEN2 and GEN3 become the same platform above a certain WHP number, but it most certainly isnt 300whp. The GEN2 and GEN3 basically become the same platform when going above 400+ WHP.

RickyB would have to disagree with you.

I wish he was here

The problem with the GEN2 (and GEN3 for that matter) is that you cant just swap in bigger injectors and tune out the fuel you dont need like you can do with a 5sfte

Why not? Because the mr2 community says so? For years those guys have been guilty of never thinking outside the box.
Its funny how all communities stick to one way of thinking. Ask the mr2 guys and they will hate on the safc. Talk to the supra guys and they will swear by the mapecu, go to the subaru guys and they will tell you to retune your car because you changed the color of your rims.

I would love to go into more detail, but Im kind of holding back for two reasons.
1. for some reason these types of debates get deleted on here faster then you can type them
2. Regardless of what I say, I think you will just come back with some kind of reply that shows the 3rd gen motor is touched by the hand of god.

Dont get me wrong, Id rock a 3rd gen motor in a heat beat. Anything is better then the ****ty AFM based EFI and the peashooter turbo. But change those two things, and the playing field is level for both motors.

Yes, I believe more than most on thinking outside the box.....that will become a bit more evident in the next few weeks.

For the most part, when using an SAFC to control BIGGER injectors on the GEN2, it usually doesnt end well. I know you use the SAFC in your GEN2 Art, but you arent controlling bigger injectors with it.

Art there is no need to "hold back." I will not shoot down a valid idea no matter the setup, ESPECIALLY if it works. Progress in the community is not made by holding back. I agree there are A LOT of criers and nay sayers amongst the 3sgte community...GEN2 and GEN3, 5s, 7a, etc. alike, I am not one of them. If someone is willing to try something new, I am always all for it....and eagerly await the results. I am also not afraid of trying new things on my own car, whcih again.....will be very evident in the next few weeks. Threw trail and error are how most things are accomplished/perfected.

[_Jim_]

now grant it the gen 2 had 3rd gen electronics...that evens out, it matches the turbo ct27-ct20b i would have to say is somewhat evenly matched..a lot more so then the ct26-the ct20b, and the injectors were bumped up on the 2nd gen...everything else is esentially even...3" exhaust, intake, both are using a helper spring, and using higher octane. Yes the c16 race gas does help a bit more...but this is a pretty even test between the 2 motors..which is a perfect example of how capable a gen 2 is compared to a gen 3. i would say with the mods listed ATS spent about a $1200 more on the gen 2 to put up equal numbers. Not to mention the 2nd gen is probably running stock cams where as the gen 3 has a leg up in that catogory. we could go back and forth about this crap all day long and still get nowhere...but this is a perfect example of not going over 355HP and both motors are putting out equal numbers with little done.

Yes, you are very much correct in saying that the GEN3 conversion for a GEN2 is a VERY nice option.....if you ALREADY HAVE a car with a GEN2 installed in it. BUT, for when deciding which generation 3sgte to swap in....might as well start with a GEN3. There was a lot more money then 1200$ in that setup tho. You have 800 for a ct27, another 1000$ for the Power FC, and another 300-500 in sensors, fuel rail, and injectors. So, it took between 2000-2500$ for the GEN2 to make the same power the GEN3 does stock. And I wouldnt even call it a fair comparison at that, because the GEN2 was running a full standalone ECU, which allows for added power through tuning, and ran much leaner AFR's then the GEN3 ECU...which again makes for more power improvements.....where as the GEN3 numbers were on a STOCK ECU, and had no tuning done.

You guys seem to be getting the wrong vibe here. If you already have a GEN2 installed in your car.....keep it. You do have options obviously for more HP. BUT, if you are considering swapping.....You should go with a GEN3. MOST people dont need over 400whp....so by going GEN3 you can obtain your power goals while still remaining on the stock ECU. To be honest, most people would be happy with 330whp and 310ftlbs, so they wouldn't even need to swap out the turbo.

This is not the first time I have said this.....but I usually bring it up when answering a question whether to turbo someone 5s or swap.....and my answer always is
Sub 300whp, turbo your 5s
300-400whp, Swap to a GEN3
400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

[SlvrCelica09]

Jim, it shows on ur sig that ur runnin 330 WHP.. with the FWD tranny are u getting all the power.. my long term plans is to go AWD.. and im jus a lil curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels

[95st-celica]

400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

edit...400+WHP.....5S-GTE..come on now jim! haha


then again 400+ can be obtained by any motor stated above

[_Jim_]

Jim, it shows on ur sig that ur runnin 330 WHP.. with the FWD tranny are u getting all the power.. my long term plans is to go AWD.. and im jus a lil curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels

I dont really know what you mean, "am I getting all the power," Since it posts my WHP numbers in my signature....I can only assume you mean traction wise. First gear is a bit of a waste to say the least LOL, but I grab pretty good traction in second gear with a nice set of tires and a warm day. I am also running an LSD E153, so that helps.

I see you say this tho "curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels." My signature posts my WHP, so I am making 330whp to the wheels (WHP means Wheel Horsepower) I am making almost 400hp at the crank, all on a stock GEN3

[SlvrCelica09]

yea sorry i meant traction with gear shifting.. i know WHP means wheel horsepower.. just wanted to make sure thats what ur getting and not just a number, do u mind explaining a bit what u meant by 1st gear being a waste.. bc I really dont want to buy an FWD tranny that wont have good traction past 300 WHP... which is why i just want to keep my tranny and leave the engine stock until I get the AWD.. i drove an sti in the rain once and it was great.. I would love to have AWD on my celica.. i may even decided to do that first..

[95st-celica]

yea sorry i meant traction with gear shifting.. i know WHP means wheel horsepower.. just wanted to make sure thats what ur getting and not just a number, do u mind explaining a bit what u meant by 1st gear being a waste.. bc I really dont want to buy an FWD tranny that wont have good traction past 300 WHP... which is why i just want to keep my tranny and leave the engine stock until I get the AWD.. i drove an sti in the rain once and it was great.. I would love to have AWD on my celica.. i may even decided to do that first..

bro, do you understand how hard it is to put AWD in your car? it doesnt just bolt up, it cost a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of parts. Of course it can be done, dont get me wrong, but if you think your gonna swap in a 3sgte, with awd just like that, its not going to happen. you will be looking at close to 10k and with that you should go out and buy a wrx. jim is saying 1st gear is a waste because these damn motors just have too much torque...there are ways to cut down on wheel spin, for instance, an e153 LSD trans, coilovers, sway bars and end links, and of course a real nice set of drag radials, but even still with 320+ horse your still gonna have a little bit of wheel spin....the transmission is not going to give you traction...its just putting the power to the ground that you need to worry about...an e153 transmission isnt going to give you more traction then a stock GT trans...yes you can go with the awd trans and do all that but now you are adding more weight (700+pounds more of weight we are talking about) you need a whole custom rear subframe, gas tank, rear diff, axles, driveshaft, so on and so forth.

[SlvrCelica09]

thanks for your concern celicaST, if you are in fact concerned.. or just trying to bash me since im a "noob" in your eyes bc i have not been on this forum for long(i know plenty of 6gc owners who arent apart of this forum for reasons like this) but i know exactly how much it costs, and what is involved for an awd.. and for an swap.. I am going to invest alot of money into my car.. and I dont want to buy another car.. money is not an issue for me or else i would not have considered this. I didnt make this thread to produce results in a month or 2.. this setup most likely will take 2 years.. maybe 3.. I finally know what I want to purchase.. so just sit back and relax until I update this thread...

[95st-celica]

NICE!

[pipes]

AT THIS RATE IM NOT GOING TO BE SO RARE ANYMORE

[SlvrCelica09]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

[lagos]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

Thats only a question that that specific importer can answer for you. Even of people have had good/bad experiences with them in the past, it doesn't mean that this specific motor will include everything you need. Most of the time, expect for a lot of misc stuff to be missing when buying an engine set.

[SlvrCelica09]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

Thats only a question that that specific importer can answer for you. Even of people have had good/bad experiences with them in the past, it doesn't mean that this specific motor will include everything you need. Most of the time, expect for a lot of misc stuff to be missing when buying an engine set.

thanks man.. I think im gonna take a look at it... if they will allow me to so i can see for myself

[SlvrCelica09]

*a lil baby update*

st205 bought.. i was in frankfurt germany for most of june.. and I just got back from UK to see a friend last friday so thats why im kind of behind in progress.. it should be coming within a week or 2.. ill post pics and stuff during next update. This clip also comes with the AWD complete setup.. still deciding whether or not to sell it or try and convert.. I will let everyone one know during next update

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Aug 22, 2009 - 9:19 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

Allright this is where im at soo far guys.. got the engine and some goods with it.. currently im waiting on pittfighter to give me his tranny and clutch so i can move foward.. (hurry up dude.. lol) but heres some pics of what im working with:








i could bolt the engine to my S54... but i really dont want to.. bc i know 4 a fact ill get boost happy.. i know previously i said i wouldnt.. but now that im closer... i doubt that.. 330 hp is the most i want.. not really building a track car..

but yea next update will b with the engine and pittfighter's tranny in my engine bay.. stay tuned..

[supershannon77]

looking real good if u need help let us no for sure!

[3WayStunna]

NIce thread, and nice engine you have there! Was wondering if you plan on keeping the stock water to air intercooler setup.

Also, its nice to see some healthy discussion on here. And just to add my opinion, investing in the 3rd gen for your power goals, would be the better investment. I know that Jim had beat it all to death, so ill just say that i share his exact same opinion.

Anywho, GL man with your project!!

[_Jim_]

Looking good man!

This post has been edited by _Jim_: Aug 23, 2009 - 9:21 AM

[SlvrCelica09]

NIce thread, and nice engine you have there! Was wondering if you plan on keeping the stock water to air intercooler setup.

Also, its nice to see some healthy discussion on here. And just to add my opinion, investing in the 3rd gen for your power goals, would be the better investment. I know that Jim had beat it all to death, so ill just say that i share his exact same opinion.

Anywho, GL man with your project!!

hey stunna,

love silver celicas.. i hope mines looks as good as yours when its done but yea im keeping the stock water to air system, im not really a big fan of FMIC, dont really feel a need to upgrade to it.. i have the functional hood now so I think the system will work great.. so no need to upgrade, if thats even a upgrade.. as for the tranny.. I doubt I want to get AWD anymore... im gonna use pittfighter's v6 e153 tranny.. so no AWD..particularly for this car.. i think if anything when i grad from college.. im thinking ill buy another 6th gen celica and convert that to AWD.. it may b cheaper then.. (if obama actually comes through lol) so yea im def going to be investing in this 3rd gen.. i dont feel a need to go much over 300WHP.. that much HP in this lightweight car is pretty good

[3WayStunna]

Thanks for the compliment, and youll def enjoy what you end up with! And honestly i always wondered how much fun the FWD 3sgte's are. Lol, hope you find out for yourself!



This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Aug 23, 2009 - 2:40 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

*another baby update*

alright guys.. there has been some changes to the engine selection.. I went from regular ST205 to WRC st205 (purchased from Jim)

here are some pics of WRC engine i bought from Jim.. its currently sitting at my shop:






Monday is when the grind begins.. im going to take pics of all the other parts I got to go along with this setup.. and also as far as exhaust goes.. we are doing a VERY VERY unique setup.. stay tuned.. cant give it away now..

[_Jim_]

I am glad you are happy with the motor, cant wait to heat about his new exhaust setup your working on. If there is anything else you need, give me a call. GL MAN

[SlvrCelica09]

MAJOR UPDATE.. 1 of 2


Hey guys.. just got back home from another 9 am to 5 pm grueling day of swap lol... so heres where i stand at the moment:

5sfe engine out
WRC st205 in
competition clutch in
lightweight flywheel in
50% of wiring done

i would have been wayyyyyyy more ahead but getting that 5s out was a "B" word.. took most of the time because we were trying to remove it from the tranny.. I called jim and he said just to remove it as a whole.. thanks for the heads up man or else the 5s would still prolly be in my bay haha. So.. Id say we r like 75% done with the swap process.. still need to bolt on the exhaust, hook up the W2A intercooler, finish the wiring.. and i think we should be complete.. oh and another set back.. apparently i have been driving with a broken rear motor mount.. my boy twan showed it to me and i was uuber pissed.. but oh well thats life.. should have that on monday.. when we start back up again.. so yea im very pleased with the amount of work we got in today.. we started with the 5s still in this morning.. and now the 205 is in =). i will be selling the 5sfe so look out for my FS thread... heres some pics:






ill have the final major update soon

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 26, 2009 - 6:45 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Nice!

[kavy]

AWSOME!!

[_Jim_]

Great progress today Mike, and I am glad I could help. If there is anything else you need, or that I can help you with...you know the number man. GL, and I am looking forward to the secret exhaust pics!

[SlvrCelica09]

Great progress today Mike, and I am glad I could help. If there is anything else you need, or that I can help you with...you know the number man. GL, and I am looking forward to the secret exhaust pics!

thanks alot man.. right now we still gotta order the new exhaust.. so sometime next week the pics of it will be up hopefully.. i was wondering though if u can go over 1 more time the custom wiring that needs to be done again? i want to go in monday ready to do.. and not look up haha.. i know i gotta make relays for the IC.. and you said something about the starter also.. im also wondering about the cluster and how to get the turbo sensor to work.. since thats all i have right now. im really hoping to at least be complete with the wiring and IC setup by monday

[SlvrCelica09]

ok.. monday... epic fail.. =( naw not yet lol.. we made even more progress than friday.. but there are some questions.. so jim i uploaded the pics for you.. hopefully you can make out my questions.. well heres the pics of what we have done so far




ok and now heres my questions jim.. or anyone else with 205 knowledge..

question #1.. where does these 2 hoses connect too?




question #2.. what goes in or plugs behind this part? looks like a part of the factory BOV..


question #3.. where does this plug to?


question #4.. does a cap go here? or a small hose?


question #5.. what plugs here?


question #6.. this part says "purse" on it.. so now im wondering what missing hose plugs on here..


question #7.. im thinking this is the turbo sensor.. what plugs into here? couldnt find it at all..

'
im also wondering about making new relays.. for IC pump and starter.. how exactly would you go about doing this.. ive been told.. but im a visual learner sadly.. so if anyone has pics of how to do this i would greatly appreciate..

a little summary..

perhaps i could have done even more research.. or perhaps read the manual even better.. although i suck at analizing things without pictures. I think ive done good research.. i was able to figure out alot of the wiring.. and bolted on everything that was needed.. the transmission and clutch all bolted on well.. even the wiring up to making new relays i did without much hassle.. although im sure 205 is wayyy easier than 185. Theres still much much i need to learn however... as you all can see lol.. but i dont think the answers to these questions arent something I cannot handle. Just needs comprehension and time to figure out..

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 28, 2009 - 9:08 PM

[Batman722]

1. they go to the jdm charcoal canister that has 2 vac lines to it, the usdm one has 1. You can just block them off or connect one to the US cannister and use the other for a boost gauge.

2. that connects to the st205 airbox

3. take a better pic, can't really see it.

4. small hose. It vents the IC coolant system in case of pressure build up.

5. That's the stock oil catch can. It connects to the intake.

6. from the throttle body vac line (question 1)

7. that is for the jdm charcoal cannister, just leave it unless you have the jdm cannister.

wiring...use this (pictured)
Should have come with your motor and wire harness.



if not, just use these

[SlvrCelica09]

* still work in progress *

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 30, 2009 - 7:35 AM

[SlvrCelica09]

* A little baby update *

hey guys.. as of right now:

yesterday had some issues with the ECU and wiring for the clutch starter.. resolved that today so now its turning again..
I have some fuel problems now.

It seems as though the engine is not getting any fuel.. Im thinking perhaps it is because I still have the stock 5sfe fuel pump in there and it cannot send the fuel to the engine. I do remember being told once before that It was possible to still drive the car with the stock 5sfe fuel pump.. So i dont know if it is in fact the fuel pump

Another possibility would be the fuel injectors.. but they have been tested and it is working fine.. as a matter of fact the car started for a 1/2 second with I guess the remaining fuel from the engine before it shut off.

Has this been a problem for anyone else who has done a 3rd gen swap? what do you guys think the solution is?

I am having the ST205 fuel pump put in perhaps tomorrow, maybe it will start.. I let you guys know what happens if we get the fuel pump installed tomorrow

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 30, 2009 - 5:30 PM

[95st-celica]

you gotta get that stock fuel pump out of there... i woulndt even trust starting it with that fuel pump....invest in a walbro and your problem will go away

good progress other then that

[lagos]

COR

[SlvrCelica09]

COR

hmm perhaps that could be the problem.. says in the manual to inspect continuity between the terminals.. I think ill do that first today before i change the fuel pump.. thanks for the tip lagos

(btw.. you were right about me before.. its a whole new ball game when you start swaps)

[SlvrCelica09]

hey guys.. does anyone know where i can find a good how to on changing the fuel pump in a GT? dont have 400 dollars to get changed at a shop so i would like to do it myself.. im putting a ST205 fuel pump in there

[pitcelica]

remove rear seats, remove the access hole, unbolt fuel lines and hoses, unbolt the fuel pump assembly from the fuel tank.

[SlvrCelica09]

thanks pit... i think ive found my problem however.. i have not made a relay for the fuel pump.. that is required for the 3sgte swap correct? going to do that monday and see what happens

[Batman722]

you have to wire in the fuel pump to make it work

also the ic and pump, use relays and wire them in just like the pics or they won't work right.

if you have any questions, hit me up, I've done 4 3rd gen 3s' so far.

[Celicia]

well mike, you have done very well. Dont give it up Its a shame your setup did not come with a relay box Try your best and read the cut wires and figure out which ones are for the fuel pump and make the relay for it.. dont forget the intercooler as well. Once you do that, change the fuel pump. Stay encouraged, you are almost done

[SlvrCelica09]

* baby update * (hate baby updates.. means the car still isnt fully good)
edit:

ok guys i wired in the fuel pump.. fixed ignition error.. thinking i have vacuum leaks however.. will address this new problem tuesday.. current status is:

engine starts up great.. but cannot press gas.. im thinking i may have a leak somewhere.. will find out tommarow

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Oct 5, 2009 - 8:12 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

I really need a vacuum hose diagram guys.. if anyone knows where i can find one for a 3rd gen.. i would greatly appriciate..

[SlvrCelica09]

bump for help.

[lagos]

Oddly enough, no vac diagrams exist for the 3sgte (at least none that I have found).
This is one of those times where you have to take a lot of pictures and hope that the really nice 6gc community remembers all your past good deeds and comes through and helps you out.

[SlvrCelica09]

Oddly enough, no vac diagrams exist for the 3sgte (at least none that I have found).
This is one of those times where you have to take a lot of pictures and hope that the really nice 6gc community remembers all your past good deeds and comes through and helps you out.

true.... maybe they will.. and accept my apologies for arguments in the past.. and hope they are forgiving.. but yea im at the shop now.. ill get some pics today

right now it starts.. when step on the gas.. it spudders out at precisely 2000 rpm.. then idles unstable

[Batman722]

I know where all the vac lines go...but on a wrc there are a bunch more that are just in the way and could be your problem.

put up some pics of what you need advise on and I can direct you, also the wiring is very important with the FP and IC/pump.

might as well check the compression on that motor when you have a chance.

[SlvrCelica09]

I have plugged every vac line there is.. but im still getting this same response from the car.. once the car is warm.. it idles unstable.. and I still cant go past 2000 rpm.. what could be the soultion? is it my wiring? i ran the blue fuel pump power wire to a ground.. and joined 2 connector grounds together from the smallest and 2nd biggest connectors together.. maybe i wired wrong? because my engine starts when i barely turn the key.. could this also be a reason for my problem?

[lagos]

I have plugged every vac line there is.. but im still getting this same response from the car.. once the car is warm.. it idles unstable.. and I still cant go past 2000 rpm.. what could be the soultion? is it my wiring? i ran the blue fuel pump power wire to a ground.. and joined 2 connector grounds together from the smallest and 2nd biggest connectors together.. maybe i wired wrong? because my engine starts when i barely turn the key.. could this also be a reason for my problem?

Seeing as how I know nothing and spread false information (according to you), the blue wire going to the fuel pump should get power (assuming we are talking about the same wire) not ground.
Go look at the wiring diagram. The COR sends power to a thick blue wire--through the fuel pump relay-- into your interior plug-- and all the way back to the fuel pump.

The fuel pump relay should be removed (cut off the wires, join all 3 blue ones together), as its just a low/high switch and wont work correctly without properly adding in the resistor pack (not worth doing).

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 9, 2009 - 9:34 AM

[SlvrCelica09]

ok I will try that.. and btw I never said you spread false information.. I was just unsure to how much knowledge you ahd with 3rd gen engines.. im quite sure all the 2ng gen information you give is 100% accurate as Ive read many of your posts in those topics.. also with fuel systems also (your thread on how to wire walboro fuel pumps properly) Im not here to question anyones knowledge.. nor should anyone else.. we should really end all this bickering (batman, Jim, me , lagos) its geting us no where.

[lagos]

ok I will try that.. and btw I never said you spread false information.. I was just unsure to how much knowledge you ahd with 3rd gen engines.. im quite sure all the 2ng gen information you give is 100% accurate as Ive read many of your posts in those topics.. also with fuel systems also (your thread on how to wire walboro fuel pumps properly) Im not here to question anyones knowledge.. nor should anyone else.. we should really end all this bickering (batman, Jim, me , lagos) its geting us no where.

Everyone swallows the humble pill when they are in the middle of a project and need help. You did "call me out" and did claim that i spread false info. But luckly I'm a nice guy who really doesn't take this internet stuff to seriously and tends to help more people than i can remember get their swaps running because i know what its like to be in the middle of it with no one to turn to.

All this "i dont know how much you know about THE 3RD GEN" stuff is silly. There has been all this bs hype going around about having 3rd gens or wrc versions or what not. The truth is that these things are 95% the same 3sgte that everyone else has. Sure a few things evolved slightly over the years, but its still the same motor. If you know one, you know the other. Trust me, I worked on all three generations... its all the same sh1t. One has a map sensor, the other an afm. Big deal.

[SlvrCelica09]

true.. guess this is all a learning expreince.. well what i just did 5 mins ago.. the thick blue power wire.. i spliced it and ran it all the way to the battery just to see if there would be a difference.. but its still doing the same thing.. revs to 2 rpm then engine shakes and and drops back down and idles unstable.. this makes no sense at all.

[lagos]

You need to make sure that the blue wire you are connecting to the battery is the one that goes to one the 3 "interior" plugs that connect above the ecu. Hook it up to the battery, but dont start the car. You should be able to hear the fuel pump come on, and hear fuel running through the rail and feel it through the send/return lines.

After that, you have to make sure that your map sensor is plugged in and hooked up to a vac line, along with your air temp sensor in the intake. Then make sure the igniter is connected and bolted to the firewall (it gets its ground that way) and check that the harness plug is hooked up to the back of the distributor. Oh and your fuel injector resistor pack (looks like a big heat sink) needs to be plugged in.

If the car is still acting funny, jump the diagnostic box with a paper clip connecting the te and e1 terminals. Turn your key to the on position and count the blinking lights.

There is also a intake manifold ground wire that people normally miss. Its part of your engine harness and you have to get under the car and bolt it to the back of the intake manifold with a 12 or 14mm bolt.

omg 3rd gen, wrc!... heh, its all the same sh1t.

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 9, 2009 - 10:33 AM

[SlvrCelica09]

great will do man! should reply with what happens in like 10 to 20

[SlvrCelica09]

well i did everything.. still the same crap.. maybe my timing belt needs adjustment..

[lagos]

well i did everything.. still the same crap.. maybe my timing belt needs adjustment..

Did you replace the timing belt before putting the motor in?
Did you line up the crank and the cam gears with the valve cover off when doing the belt?
When you hooked up the battery wire to the fuel pump, did you hear the pump come on and feel/hear fuel through the rail?
Do you have any ecu codes?

Last 3s I worked on wouldn't start at all because my friend put the belt on wrong. And even after I fixed the belt, we had to unbolt the distributor and rotate it by hand to get the car to hold idle. But this was on a brand new rebuild, and after it broke in for a while it idled fine with the correct timing.

[SlvrCelica09]

well i did everything.. still the same crap.. maybe my timing belt needs adjustment..

Did you replace the timing belt before putting the motor in?
Did you line up the crank and the cam gears with the valve cover off when doing the belt?
When you hooked up the battery wire to the fuel pump, did you hear the pump come on and feel/hear fuel through the rail?
Do you have any ecu codes?

Last 3s I worked on wouldn't start at all because my friend put the belt on wrong. And even after I fixed the belt, we had to unbolt the distributor and rotate it by hand to get the car to hold idle. But this was on a brand new rebuild, and after it broke in for a while it idled fine with the correct timing.

naw i didnt replace the timing belt.. bc im a reall newb at that and timing is an serious issue so i didnt want 2 f up.. naw i dont recall hearing anything with the fuel pump and/or fuel rail.. but it DID start up once i wired the fuel pump wire to the battery.. im just gna run some relays.. batman called me up and explained some things.. gna try it out.. i will let u guys know what happens

[Batman722]

Mike, glad we talked today, call me again when you get the relays.

[presure2]

jim, seriously, give it a rest.
your not the only person whos ever had or worked on a WRC, in fact, dustin did help with your swap, in case you forgot, your car wouldnt have ran without dustin. (D and steff did the wiring on your car)
so lets just leave it at that, and try and stay on the topic of helping mike here, and leave the personal jabs and whatnot off the board.

[_Jim_]

You could have just deleted the nonsense and left it at that....or then wrote me and DB a PM telling us to stop the crap, or even called if you felt like. There was no need to delete the BS, then solely call me out on it....But I guess it is what it is.

[supershannon77]

said my peace...gl mike with getting it running perfect.

This post has been edited by supershannon77: Oct 10, 2009 - 2:37 AM

[Nartanian]

The fued between the blue beasts

This post has been edited by Nartanian: Oct 9, 2009 - 5:12 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

The fued between the blue beasts

there is no fued.. so stop trying to stir things up. Like I said before I hope these differences can be squashed soon.. its pointless.. and NO im not saying this bc I need help so dont even write that (you know who you are) the fact of the matter is we all have celicas.. some of us want to do swaps.. some of us would like more information on how to do it.. some people have the "go research like I did" attitude.

If you want to help the community.. or so you say.. then how about showing people how you did your swap.. because in the end.. people will STILL need to do the swap on their own.. its not doing other peoples homework.. doing other people's homework is actually going and doing the swap for them. Even if you show exactly how you did it.. step by step.. bolt by bolt.. wire by wire.. theres no way in hell a swap can be done in a day.. you are just making life easier for others who also want power, and to be honest.. hiding how you did a swap is soo very selfish.. and implies that you want people to suffer just as you did.. which is such a wrong mindset with cars.. and life in general

Jim and Batman, you guys both have succesful running swaps.. you guys should be good friends IMO.. Id say instead of taking shots at one another.. you all should help each other learn new things.. and ultimately post the best damn "how to swap a 3rd gen on the internet" I will pitch in and help once i get mines running

Lagos.. I dont understand why you think people here are bashing you or trying to bash bc of 2nd gen.. 3rd gen crap.. I DONT CALL YOU OUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A 2ND GEN!! I dont understand why thats so hard to understand. Like i said before there had been some posts you made on 3rd gen issues that werent really the right answer.. so I just wondered if you infact had credible knowledge on 3rd gen motors.. the only reason we got heated was because you called me a cheerleader.. which anyone will get heated about. There are certain things you can get away with on a 2nd gen that you cant with 3rd gen..

Take for instance the fuel wiring setup.. you had told me to join the blue wires together.. Batman later told me that wont fly with the 3rd gen because of a different fuel setup. Its not about which gen is more powerful.. its about what you can do as far as setting up the different generation motors.. and Ill say again.. Im not here to bash you because you have a 2nd gen motor.. I DO NOT CARE. Im here to get information and share new information to others who are new and need information.. thats what 6gc should be about IMO.. but i duno that may be just me.

So yea im done talking about this also like shannon said.. we all need to just work out these petty differences and help each other out.. because everyone can learn something new.. no matter how long youve been driving a car.. theres always something new to learn.

[supershannon77]

well said!

did you get it running well?

[lagos]

Take for instance the fuel wiring setup.. you had told me to join the blue wires together.. Batman later told me that wont fly with the 3rd gen because of a different fuel setup. Its not about which gen is more powerful.. its about what you can do as far as setting up the different generation motors.. and Ill say again.. Im not here to bash you because you have a 2nd gen motor.. I DO NOT CARE. Im here to get information and share new information to others who are new and need information.. thats what 6gc should be about IMO.. but i duno that may be just me.

lol, im not sure what it is that dustin told you, but what i told you to do is based on the 3rd gen wiring diagrams that were posted in this very thread. He was probably trying to tell you to avoid doing all that, by just installing the extra relay box that the st205 uses, which you didn't mention having. I was giving you a solution. However if you doubt my advice, I wont bother typing it out next time.

This gen this gen that stuff is about the dumbest thing I've seen on these boards.

[SlvrCelica09]

I dont have a extra st205 fuel pump relay box.. im making a custom 1. and you cannot just join all 3 wires together because the st205 motor does not run properly if a specific amount of fuel isnt given at a specific time.. thus the reason i need to make a relay that dictates how much fuel is being sent.. again im not trying to bash.. just letting you know some things wont fly with the 205 motor.

[lagos]

I dont have a extra st205 fuel pump relay box.. im making a custom 1. and you cannot just join all 3 wires together because the st205 motor does not run properly if a specific amount of fuel isnt given at a specific time.. thus the reason i need to make a relay that dictates how much fuel is being sent.. again im not trying to bash.. just letting you know some things wont fly with the 205 motor.

Wow so the 3rd gen really is a totally new and different setup than every car on earth, since normally relays only supply a constant power to the fuel pump and have nothing to do with regulating fuel delivery to the engine (besides the low/high mode by reducing voltage to 9v at idle through the fuel pump resistor pack to reduce electrical strain on the car, present on both the 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors).
Normally fuel deliver is handled by the fuel injectors that get powered through the injector resistor pack and receive a pulsating ground from the ecu that makes them operated at a specific duty cycle based on load information from the map sensor (3d gen specific!!!!) and throttle position sensor in order to correct "send a specific amount of fuel at a specific time".

But the 3rd gen does all that through the fuel pump wiring, huh? Yeah your right, some things just dont fly.

PS. I have no idea what blue wires you are personally looking at. My advice was to send power from the COR, directly to the wire that ends up going to plug IJ1 pin 4.

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 10, 2009 - 1:21 AM

[Axel04]

Update!! How's everything going?

[SlvrCelica09]

well.. im thinking one of my sensors is bad.. going to run some diagnostics.. curerntly.. it now revs to 3000 rpm before stalling out.. i dont think its a fuel issue anymore.. its either a vacuum leak or a bad sensor.. my ignition mite be retarded.

[SlvrCelica09]

ok another update.. its reving higher and higher everytime I hit the throttle.. im gna go ahead and install the exhaust system now.. the downpipe is spitting fire.. perhaps the swap is near complete? doubt it.. expecting another problem.. stay tuned.

[95st-celica]

exhaust wont do anything...i have been running an open downpipe for 4+ months now with no problems...just likes to boost creep a little...exhaust is next for my car as well

hope it works out, but i would still advise to get a walbro in there asap

[lagos]

exhaust wont do anything...i have been running an open downpipe for 4+ months now with no problems...just likes to boost creep a little...exhaust is next for my car as well

hope it works out, but i would still advise to get a walbro in there asap

what would you know! the 3rd gen does things differently!

[SlvrCelica09]

exhaust wont do anything...i have been running an open downpipe for 4+ months now with no problems...just likes to boost creep a little...exhaust is next for my car as well

hope it works out, but i would still advise to get a walbro in there asap

yea i here ya.. im hoping the ST205 fuel pump can hold its own until i can get one

exhaust wont do anything...i have been running an open downpipe for 4+ months now with no problems...just likes to boost creep a little...exhaust is next for my car as well

hope it works out, but i would still advise to get a walbro in there asap

what would you know! the 3rd gen does things differently!

lol come on dude.. this isnt a 2nd gen 3rd gen battle

[Batman722]

hey I just got your message

spitting fire ?!? running rich maybe ?
almost sounds like you have a major vac leak with the high reving.
Have you checked for codes ?
or checked the timing ?

the 205 fp is just fine, no need for a walbro.

[SlvrCelica09]

hey I just got your message

spitting fire ?!? running rich maybe ?
almost sounds like you have a major vac leak with the high reving.
Have you checked for codes ?
or checked the timing ?

the 205 fp is just fine, no need for a walbro.

yea it looks like i still have a vac leak.. its getting frustrating b/c i checked my vacuum lines 3 times already.. maybe im still missing something.. gna run more diagnostics tomamrow.. oh and a good note is that i fixed my starter issue.. a black and yellow wire was not needed to complete the clutch start sequence so i removed it and its starting normally now.. hopefully the error codes will direct me to the exact problem tommarow.. oh and my exhaust is finally in. so to do list.. find the vac leak.. relay the IC and IC pump.

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Oct 19, 2009 - 6:31 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

yet another problem guys.. I cant shift anymore!! I have Tweaks 3sgte 5sfe clutch kit installed.. i can shift into gears.. but it wont move anymore =( it was moving before when the car would only rev to about 2,000 rpm.. I also have noticed that the mph gauge moves when i press the gas but not going anywhere.. what does this mean? could my slave cylinder be faulty? I have the 205 motor on my 5sfe transmission. Car is still behaving crazy when i press gas.. keeps losing presure and regaining.. but wont go past 4 rpm.. should I run the test vacuum leaks one more time?

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Oct 21, 2009 - 2:26 PM

[95st-celica]

look...here is what i would do, before you get all crazy, and do 1 little thing and think every problem in the car is fixed, calm down, TAKE YOUR TIME, and go over the motor...if you did it once do it again, if you did it 6 times, do it again. Check the back of the manifold really good, make sure no lines are cracked, have holes in them ect, ect. a good way to check to see if the lines have vacume is to squeze them and you should notice the car ideling differently, if not almost dieing out on you. Another great safe way to check is to take a tourch, WITH OUT THE FLAME ON! turn the propane on medium, as the car is running aim the propane near all of your vac. lines...if there is a leak anywhere in the lines or across the motor, it will bump your idle up and you will find where your problem is. Do you have a gauge on it? what is it reading?

Next i would make sure you have done general maintaince to the engine, fresh fluids all around(I know this isnt going to help with the vac. issuse but it is something that should and NEEDS to be done to any motor that has been sitting for a while) fresh oil, filter, coolant, plugs, (perferably NGK 6097's Gaped at 0.028, which makes it a little easier for the ignition system to keep the spark nice and strong) cap, rotar. since the motor is already in the car you cant (unless you really want to) replace the t-belt, which should have already been done but so be it, aling with front a rear main seals, cam seals, water pump, ect.

Third i would get in there and replace that fuel pump imeditily. if you have an st205 fuel pump for it, just do it. Its a 20 minute job. if not then i would suggest a walbro, but like batman stated above an 205 pump will work fine.

Forth, how mushy is your clutch? i would try rebleeding it once more, make sure your clutch fluid is toped off and it feels stiff as it should. its a possiability that your slave cyclender could be faulty but before jumping to any conclusions i would do simple things to try and fix the problem first.

5th, i would listen to everything and anything Lagos tells you to do. I know him personaly and i can say from first hand experience the man knows exactly what he is talking about. He would not suggest or tell you to do something if he wasnt 100% sure that thats whats needed to be done with out telling you this first. Hes been around these things for a long time, and any problem, except for 2 i can think of off the top of my head, he was right about, and knew exactly what to do and how to fix it. As for your speedo, is it jumping and not reading? is it reading at all? do you notice the speed is off on it? if so then it is a problem with your wireing in the harness. I would e-mail tweak and see if you can get it worked out, or if he knows what to do, but from my understanding you just have to clip a wire or something very easy and it will work fine. it has something to do with the small blue clip that goes into your transmission on the top.

And lastly, click the link below. Read it, know it, use it, Understand it! it is the bible to the 3sgte engine. It is an awesome wirte up and has TONS of very helpfull and interesting information.

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

good luck, do what i told ya, and report back with what you find

This post has been edited by 95st-celica: Oct 21, 2009 - 3:04 PM

[lagos]

Hes been around these things for a long time, and any problem, except for 2 i can think of off the top of my head, he was right about, and knew exactly what to do and how to fix it.

Hahaha, your never going to let me live that down, will ya? I mean who ever heard of a resistor pack going bad(and only on one injector!)?
Oh thats right, they dont go bad unless your car catches fire because you didn't do what i told you to do! I win that debate! hahaha

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 21, 2009 - 4:20 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

I dont think if If I do 1 thing, problem is fixed.. rather I think If i do one thing there will be other problems to come!! maybe thats my problem... I keep expecting the worst.. and the worst does happen lol.. I think I should start hoping for the best more lol.

The ST205 fuel pump is in.. its been in for almost 2 weeks now.. fuel is not the issue IMO. as far as maintenance I put NGK spark plugs.. new oil cap, new oil, and coolant. I did not change the timing belt.. I figured the one there would be fine IMO.. I will look into that. the clutch is real stiff.. it was working fine when I first started the motor... I bleed it real good the first time. Its not that I don't listen to lagos, he just has the wrong impression in what I think of him.. despite me telling him this isn't a 2nd gen 3rd gen war he still makes it out that way.

As a matter of fact hes the reason I have my fuel pump actually running.. I gave power to the big blue cord directly from the fuel pump so now its running fine. I explored other options like making a relay for the fuel pump.. but the idle problem was still there. What I haven't done yet was wire in the intercooler.. I was told that if the intercooler was not wired in it would not allow the turbo to boost past 4 psi or something like that.. so I don't think that is the problem either.. Im gonna keep testing for leaks.. hopefully I will find out where it is soon.

Thanks for that link, I have read it plenty of times.. I just wish i had access to a st205 vacuum diagram, don't understand why its not in the manuals.

[lagos]

I don't listen to lagos, he just has the wrong impression in what I think of him..

Bro, I give you advice, and you... not knowing anything about the 3sgte somehow mange to tell me how I couldn't possibly know what Im talking about. I would really love to know who fed that idea into your head.

Btw, not being able to rev past 4k is actually a really classic issue on the 3sgte and an easy fix...you should research it.

[SlvrCelica09]

I don't listen to lagos, he just has the wrong impression in what I think of him..

Bro, I give you advice, and you... not knowing anything about the 3sgte somehow mange to tell me how I couldn't possibly know what Im talking about. I would really love to know who fed that idea into your head.

Again thats your impression of what I think about you.. which is completely wrong btw.

[SlvrCelica09]

I checked ur 3sgte error code thread lagos:

http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10155

im gna do some diagnostics and see what what codes I get... i didnt know ur a mod there...

[95st-celica]

I checked ur 3sgte error code thread lagos:

http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10155

im gna do some diagnostics and see what what codes I get... i didnt know ur a mod there...

so does that now change the way you look at him? lol

error codes should have been checked as soon as you saw the check engine light come on...let us know what comes back