beams clip, was the lsd standard on the SSIII, which one has LSD, see last post. Options

[njccmd2002]

Hey guys i was looking around and rpm has a beams clip complete for 1500 + shipping (850)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...mMakeTrack=true

i know somebody imported one of these, 3sgte, what was your experience with the service, anything to look for. could i get the same thing in the us for less, any hook ups from the texas crew? cough cough Death are you there, cough cough

i would like to have a beams engine, torn between that and a turbo set uup, any help appreciated



This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Jul 2, 2009 - 10:17 AM

[azian_advanced]

go turbo if power is what you're looking for. 3sgte's have more potential than 3sge beams. although the beams imo would have better mpg and are less maintenance in general so if you're not looking for more than ~200HP and just want to keep it that way for the most part (since there are less aftermarket parts for the beams engine), i'd go with the beams engine.
at $1450 i don't think full clips come cheaper than that.

This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Jun 30, 2009 - 11:06 PM

[njccmd2002]

yup, cant decide yet. for themost part would like to have a rare setup. also my fears are the hidden costs. (the import taxes) where can i get them estimated.

[njccmd2002]

keith charges 1500 + 850 + 450 then i have to go pick it up. is that fair?

2800 hundred total + i have to pick it up at the port

[lagos]

keith charges 1500 + 850 + 450 then i have to go pick it up. is that fair?

2800 hundred total + i have to pick it up at the port

thats how much all clips cost.
plus add another 1-2,000 for stuff like a new clutch, exhaust, tune up stuff, etc...

[95st-celica]

keith charges 1500 + 850 + 450 then i have to go pick it up. is that fair?

2800 hundred total + i have to pick it up at the port

You are not 100% correct...i bouth my clip from keith, or RPMgarage...his service is excelent and if you want you can even give him a call....my total shipped to a warehouse about 5 minutes from my house came to 2500 exxactly. 1500 for the clip, 500 for shipping and handeling, and another 500 for the clip to clear customs at the states. His clips are quality and if i had to do it again i would only buy from him.

[njccmd2002]

yeah but im talking about a beams clip. Not a 3sgte. would you pay this much for this, or get the 2000 engine from jhot and pick it up. IM afraid if i dont get the clip, ill be missing pieces....

[Culpable04]

if the seller knows his business, you should not be missing parts on an engine set, but a clip will always have extra stuff that you can find usefull. but for the cost of the 3sge, I'd go for a turbo engine or turbo your 5s.

turbo your 5s it'll cost you around the same as a 3sge swap and you'll have more power, parts ready available in the states, and detailed instructions as of what to do, where to buyand how to install almost everything. if I had a GT that's the way I'd go, especially with the new upgrades, fine tuning and different set-ups avaailable.

[Mstoochn]

http://www.jdmtunersinc.com/TOYOTA.html

gen2, 225hp, 1200$ + Shipping anywhere on the continent is 900$ unless ur in mexico land

2100 for a 3s-gte

[BonzaiCelica]

yes of course thats an awesome price. that clip has gone from $3000 to $1450 in about 4 months. Ive been wanting that engine clip ever since. and with only 36,000 miles, that almost like a new engine.

of course a clip comes with everything you need. you have a gt, so that makes things a little easier than people that have st.. that clip is cheaper than any engine on ebay or any internet site that sells japanese engines. you have to pay for the fees of when the clip comes to the ports. but you paying $2800 is really cheap price i think. but of course you can't just throw the clip in the back of a truck, you'll have to rent a trailer for some a uhaul or a place like that for somewhere around $100.

maikl produced 186whp with bolt-ons (check out his page to see the list of mods he has), im sure with cam gear grind and port and polish (if thats worth it) you can probably get around 210whp i think.

edit: what do you mean by this

i would like to have a beams engine, torn between that and a turbo set uup, any help appreciated

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 1, 2009 - 3:17 PM

[njccmd2002]

186 whp. thats it? where does the 15 go. I am in the process of moving, but i guess ill think over a little more.

Something rare is worth to have, but difficult to fix. o well..

[delusionz]

Hey Dude,

If you get the 3S-GE BEAMS (Or any any 3S-GE) from an SS-III it will have LSD standard, I garantee it. Just make sure the chassis code is E-ST202-BLMZF

If you get it from an SS-II it's unlikely to have it.

Get the SS-III Twin piston front brakes while you're at it, It should fit onto your GT brakes easier than GT4 brakes.

Lower the milage the better in regards to the engine and LSD. (A beams under 100,000 is young and healthy and full of life)

The trans/axel code should be S54 -06D for LSD

Hell, even get the superstrut suspension aswell, you'll have a real USDM SS-III, It is so much fun to throw around corners, make sure your tyres are atleast 215 wide though.

[Rusty]

Get the SS-III Twin piston front brakes while you're at it

give us some pictures of those.

the E54 is the stronger version of the S54 and also comes with an LSD

186 whp. thats it? where does the 15 go. I am in the process of moving, but i guess ill think over a little more.

197BHP remember you lose about 25HP through the gearbox etc

[BonzaiCelica]

hmm interesting stuff delusionz. good info to know!

and that 186whp with mods. so stock i believe is 169whp. check out the "beams redtop" website. just type that in any search engine, that site is full off info and keeps on growing with more info. they are almost halfway done converting the ss-III japanese manual with beams motor to english.

is the e54 stronger tranny than the tranny that comes on mr2 turbo and v6 camry, which is the E153??

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 2, 2009 - 7:31 PM

[Rusty]

THIS INFO MAY FALSE WILL LOOK INTO IT

about JDM version st202 :

Red-Top 3s-ge beams vvt-i have helical LSD gear-box S54-06D
both version in production from 1997 - 1999
SS-II(st202...no SSS) 3s-ge vvt-i
SS-III(st202 with SSS) 3s-ge vvt-i

about viscous LSD

SS-II (st202 no SSS) from 1995-1997 have viscous LSD + ABS
SS-III (st202 + SSS) 1995 - 1997 have viscous LSD


about UK and Europe version st202 :

all version with SSS from 1995- 1999 have visco LSD

helical LSD was only in JDM version st202 and MR2 SW20 (both 3s-gte and beams)

from here

but if you really want a good proper LSD TRD make one (since the standard LSD usually only last around 100,000km)

**note that the TRD LSD for SS-III and GT-Four are discontinued



so is there any differences between the ST202 (non LSD) tranny and the ST204 tranny??
ST202 S54-06A
ST204 S54-02A

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jul 8, 2009 - 12:53 AM

[delusionz]

That's weird.. S54-06D is Helical? Would that mean our 1996 SS-III is helical or not?

[BonzaiCelica]

yes 3sge with beams has helical lsd. here the info to back it up
http://www.beams-redtop.com/redspecs.htm

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetail...mited_Slip/1357

i guess that websites sells them. hmm so your saying the viscious lsd that trd makes is better than the stock helical lsd that comes on the 3sge with beams??
how much would that trd lsd last.

it says that trd can only be applied to 3sge with no lsd whatsoever... is that true?

[Rusty]

That's weird.. S54-06D is Helical? Would that mean our 1996 SS-III is helical or not?

nope you have a viscous LSD in your SS-III pre-BEAMS. The BEAMS SS-II/SS-III have a helical LSD
and your brakes look the same as mine btw

hmm so your saying the viscious lsd that trd makes is better than the stock helical lsd that comes on the 3sge with beams??
how much would that trd lsd last.

first off the TRD LSD is not a viscious LSD, its a mechanical LSD. as for the helical LSD(in BEAMS) vs the TRD LSD I dont know. its TRD so its got to be good right?
few articles about LSD's
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=149
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

it says that trd can only be applied to 3sge with no lsd whatsoever... is that true?

can be applied to the SS-I and SS-II, cant be applied to the SS-III due to the superstrut (which is why there is another part number listed for the superstrut and another for the GT-Four)

list of some tranny's
S54-06A
S54-06D viscous
E54-???
S54-02A

[njccmd2002]

so no lsd from keith in one of his clips, he has two ill e-mail him. gott to wait...

[Rusty]

ahh that will be a SS-II Beams engine yes (same gearbox as mine)no LSD, notice the last 2 digits in the model number (VF=SS-II ZF=SS-III)

[BonzaiCelica]

hey njccmd2002 i think you are a little confused. there are 2 3sge beams clips on rpmgarage. Both clips are from 98 celicas and they both have helical lsd.

Also, how would you know if these clips came from an ss-II celica or ss-III celica?

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 6, 2009 - 5:06 PM

[Rusty]

read my previous post

[njccmd2002]

i talked to keith, and he quoted me that one is an ssIII, not that he knew but he typed the plate info. The problem is, no picture i cant really trust im getting ssiii, the black one is really an ssii by what rusty said.

[BonzaiCelica]

umm ya I understood. Both ss-II and ss-III celica's with beams have helical lsd and thats all that matters to me.

by the way, for an engine clip or any engine swap that has been sitting for a long time. Does the oil form some sort of rust on the internals of the engine??

[delusionz]

nah, oil should never rust.. had our st202 sitting in a shop for bout 5 n a half months, the oil was 20,000kms old and it still drove home, the tyres and battery didnt survive for very long though. got the oil changed right away to castrol magnatec and its running sweet.

[BonzaiCelica]

really cause on dr tweaks vert 6gc that he is building the 3s has rust on the inside where the cams are. so maybe you can explain that to me

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...64085&st=40

[delusionz]

Yeah, this engine has been sitting around for quite some time too, which I'm sure didn't help things. There's a wee bit of surface rust on the cams.

-Doc

[BonzaiCelica]

ya exactly that quote. but you still didnt answer my ?

[delusionz]

It had been sitting around for quite some time and I don't see how oil was the culprit. Anyhow, you wouldn't drop in a 2nd hand engine without taking it apart to clean it and install a new water pump, cambelt, accessory belts, etc would you?

That's only the valve cover he has off there, I'm sure if you're dropping in an engine its fair to assume you have a torque wrench?

What about the clutch too, you'd want a new clutch too right?

All I'm saying really is the surface rust is the least of your worries there, that will come off with CRC.

[njccmd2002]

RUSTY!!

which cluth fits the 3sge? where could i find one? in the us of course

[Rusty]

RUSTY!!

which cluth fits the 3sge? where could i find one? in the us of course

clutch(?)

what sort are you going for heavy duty, sports clutch? i dont really know what you guys have available to you in the US but. toyota, TRD & EXEDY

[jmeyer]

umm ya I understood. Both ss-II and ss-III celica's with beams have helical lsd and thats all that matters to me.

by the way, for an engine clip or any engine swap that has been sitting for a long time. Does the oil form some sort of rust on the internals of the engine??

Ever buy steel from a steel yard? Its coated in oil to prevent oxidation (rust) because it is difficult for moisture in the air to penetrate it. So to answer your question no it will not cause any damage to internals. Dr. tweaks engine must have had water get inside the valve cover to cause the rust.

[BonzaiCelica]

alright guys thanks for the answers, appreciate it

[BonzaiCelica]

That's weird.. S54-06D is Helical? Would that mean our 1996 SS-III is helical or not?

so no lsd from keith in one of his clips, he has two ill e-mail him. gott to wait...

hold up a sec. I think you have your information mixed up a bit. Rusty ???

if you look at the pic that njccmd2002 from the beams clip they sold (which i believe he just bought today). that came from an ss-II which is believable because ss-II and ss-III both came with beams engines. 06A is viscious and 06D is helical.



This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 11, 2013 - 9:35 PM

[Rusty]

I agree with you that the info just doesn't add up.
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...mode=linearplus

THIS INFO MAYBE FALSE WILL LOOK INTO IT

about JDM version st202 :

Red-Top 3s-ge beams vvt-i have helical LSD gear-box S54-06D
both version in production from 1997 - 1999
SS-II(st202...no SSS) 3s-ge vvt-i
SS-III(st202 with SSS) 3s-ge vvt-i

about viscous LSD

SS-II (st202 no SSS) from 1995-1997 have viscous LSD + ABS
SS-III (st202 + SSS) 1995 - 1997 have viscous LSD


about UK and Europe version st202 :

all version with SSS from 1995- 1999 have visco LSD

helical LSD was only in JDM version st202 and MR2 SW20 (both 3s-gte and beams)

which I agreed didn't look right so I added... THIS INFO MAYBE FALSE WILL LOOK INTO IT

I agree the BEAMS SS-III ST202 has an LSD (Helica)
but as for the BEAMS SS-II ST202, sorry I cant find any TRUE info anywhere to back it up, to say it has an LSD (even though I said 'yes' I was going off that false info)

nope you have a viscous LSD in your SS-III pre-BEAMS. The BEAMS SS-II/SS-III have a helical LSD

(so if thats a SS-II with a BEAMS engine)


(mine a SS-II with 3gen 3S-GE engine)
the only differences between the 2 are: the frame number, colour and trim. sorry if you cant read it its night time here and my camera wont focus
anyway it says for the gearbox.... S54 - 06A

so according to that info from that 'quoted info' and your BEAMS website the BEAMS SS-II has a Helica LSD, no difference between mine(non BEAMS) and the SS-II BEAMS gearbox.. so what does that mean? the SS-II/ BEAMS SS-II doesn't have a Helica LSD so then maybe a viscous?

now I dont know how true this site is btw
1996 SS-II > http://www.cars-directory.net/specs/toyota...ca/1996_6/5740/ (says no LSD)
1999 SS-II BEAMS . http://www.cars-directory.net/specs/toyota...ca/1999_1/5722/ (says no LSD)

so.... WTF!!!????? im also now confused

maybe we need to break down the gearbox code (what each digit means)
S54-06A <<< found in a SS-II
S54-06D <<< found in a SS-III

also S54-02A <<< found in a USDM GT

since we know the USDM never had LSD so maybe something to do with the -06 so what about the A or the D ?



also what about the SS-III both SS-III and SS-III BEAMS have LSD but do they both have the same LSD? Helica/Viscous

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jul 17, 2009 - 2:22 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

Well all beams motors should have helical lsd no matter wat. Beams motors was put into ss-II and ss-III.

so Beams motor that came in ss-II celica don't have lsd but do have twin piston calipers and mcpherson suspension

beams motor that came in ss-III celica have helical lsd, twin piston calipers and superstrut suspension

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 11, 2013 - 9:49 PM

[Rusty]

lol good question, properly the same simularites as pre beams SS-II & SS-III (examples... superstrut, rear strutbrace, +10KG's, SS-III's LSD)...........but if the BEAMS SS-II has a helical LSD why has it still got the same code?

its really confusing is'nt it?


so njccmd2002 waiting on the BIG news if any?

[BonzaiCelica]

hey so If you buy a front clip. Does that mean you can do the rhd conversion as well??

[BonzaiCelica]

hey Rusty. i think you were right beams clip came with tranny code s54-06D. like here shown on ebay, they are selling a motor with the plate info

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-TOYOTA-...sQ5fAccessories

[Rusty]

thanks glad to be some help


hmm nice clip/engine & price, low km aswell, is that you? YES!! (i'd double check you get the gauge cluster or at least the rpm guage, as it just says engine harness (its used for VVTi) or else thats more money spent (FYI RPM garage usually have a few BEAMS guages)

its definitely a SS-III (last codes, remember ZF for SS-III. VF for SS-II) and S54-06D so you'll have a Helica LSD


yea still up in the air is whether the SS-II (gearbox code S54-06A) has a LSD(and if it does which type) and whether it changed between BEAMS and Pre-BEAMS

**the S54-06A is different to the S54-02A in GT's (I think)

hey so If you buy a front clip. Does that mean you can do the rhd conversion as well??

would be alot of work why would you want RHD? dont you drive on the rightside of the road over there?

[erahman85]

anyone know what parts are available for this engine in the US? especially basic things like spark plugs, air filter, oil filter, fuel filter, belts etc.

This post has been edited by erahman85: Jul 25, 2009 - 8:34 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

ya i know it was just an idea. my friend got me hyped up on it.. oh well, and yes we drive on the right side of the road so maybe it wouldnt be a good idea, i would be attracting the police

yo erahman. do some research plz. this engine is not available in the usa. jap only. if your really interested in know about this engine check these links out.
finding oem parts for this isnt too bad. you have to find a toyota dealer that knows how to get parts directly from japan....

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61995

http://www.beams-redtop.com/redhome.htm

[Rusty]

true, any chance moving the date foward for your beams swap? oh yea, did you find out whether that ebay one came with the guage cluster?

^wow! that first link is really good, has lots of info

[njccmd2002]

nope, it was not me the one who bought it, i just moved, so not rigt now. in the next 2 -3 months maybe, if i can convince the wifey

oh and he jumped the price of the clip 400

[BonzaiCelica]

damn then who the hell bought it. well who ever it was hopefully they better be a 6gc member so they can show us their nice looking beams.

ya since the one that has 36,000 miles was sold, he decided to raise the one that used to be 1450 to 1850. thats still cheap for a clip.

[Promasta]

i might buy this from keith, i have the money.

but seriously, what else would i need to buy?
probably exhaust and clutch? what else?

[BonzaiCelica]

umm with an engine that only has 39,000 miles on it. thats nothing. the engine clip comes with everything you need. hey werent you supposed to sell your car or something. Just got to do the tune up your self. So that you know everything is running at its best for a while and you wont have to worry about anything after.


This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 27, 2009 - 1:05 AM

[illtuned]

apologies for bumping an older thread-

I have recently come across a BEAMS & S54 for sale and it has a chassis tag. Both ZF (SSIII) and 06D appear on the tag. However, under visual inspection through the axle hole in the trans, there is a bar. This is usual indicative of an open diff.

Thoughts?

[Rusty]

do you have a link, a BEAMS 3S-GE SS-III (ST202- BLMZF) with a S54-06D will have an LSD

[turnip]

apologies for bumping an older thread-

I have recently come across a BEAMS & S54 for sale and it has a chassis tag. Both ZF (SSIII) and 06D appear on the tag. However, under visual inspection through the axle hole in the trans, there is a bar. This is usual indicative of an open diff.

Thoughts?

You are correct. If there is a bar its open and if its closed it has LSD. When I compared my stock s54 from the GT with the LSD one that was the case. I have been looking for a second beams with one and the importers I have been speaking with said they are not as common.

[erahman85]

I was pretty sure that if there was a bar that it was LSD. Also I was pretty sure that all BEAMS engines came with LSD?

[illtuned]

Thanks for the quick replies.

From what I understood.. the bar was a clear indication of an open diff. However, I now have two importers telling me that isn't the case with this trans/diff / lsd type.

I do know that all SS-III w/ BEAMS are supposed to be LSD.


Thoughts?

[erahman85]

Yes I remember from a previous thread that 1. all BEAMS came with an LSD either viscus or torsen/helical (I don't remember which) and 2. that the bar meant it has LSD

Someone please clarify.

[erahman85]

Here's what I can find with toyodiy.com when comparing US and JDM models 1997 YEAR MODEL.

(SSIII) ST202-BLMZF:

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301-20190 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1
41301-20230 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1 $1,766.16
41301-32060 ST202, 203..MTM

(SSII) ST202-BLMVF:

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301-32060 ST202, 203..MTM 1 $512.72
41301-32060 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2) 1 $512.72
41301-32061 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2)


This is the part number for USDM Celica GT manual:

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301-32060 ST204..MTM

Which matches the same part number for SSI and SSII without LSD.

Acording to toyo DIY.com
FACT:
Part numbers for diff never changed all the way to 1999

FACT:
3SGE was available for SSII and SSIII
3SFE was only available for SSI

Intake manifolds for both SSII and SSIII appear to be the same and both pictures look like the BEAMS manifold but there are two options

17111 MANIFOLD, INTAKE
17101-88460 3SGE..ST202 1 $731.61
17111-88560 3SGE..ST202

So I want to say that SSII and SSIII in 1999 all had BEAMS

I have to go but I don't know if any of this stuff is usefull

This post has been edited by erahman85: Nov 9, 2009 - 7:33 PM

[delusionz]

Here's another one to throw you all off.

This is from my old SS-I (1st Celica) which I was pretty sure that it had either longer gear ratios or a longer final drive (based on rev/speeds compared to the pre-beams SS-III I had)



So Now we have

USDM GT - S54 -02A
JDM SS-I S54 -04A
JDM SS-II S54 -06A (Now confirmed to be the same code in 1996 Gen3 3S-GE -and- 1998 Beams 3S-GE models)
JDM SS-III S54 -06D (Also now confirmed to be the same code in 1996 Gen3 3S-GE -and- 1998 Beams 3S-GE models) + We know for a fact that all SS-III has atleast some sort of LSD standard, what type it is and if it relates to the trans/axel code or the year is still unknown

And Just to throw you off even more, the GT-Four does NOT have a front LSD - It has a viscous central coupling and a TORSEN rear diff.

JDM GT-Four E154F -08B

[njccmd2002]

where can i find the type of tranny in the tranny, is there a stamp

[Rusty]

USDM GT - S54 -02A
JDM SS-I S54 -04A
JDM SS-II S54 -06A
JDM SS-III S54 -06D

now remember ages ago, this is what I was getting confused with
well we know the USDM never had an LSD and neither did the SS-I, its when the JDM celicas went through mid & late updates that confuses us since the codes never changed I agree with delusionz "We know for a fact that all SS-III has atleast some sort of LSD standard, what type it is and if it relates to the trans/axel code or the year is still unknown"

USDM GT - S54 -02A < No LSD
JDM SS-I S54 -04A < No LSD
JDM SS-II S54 -06A < ?? most likely not to have an LSD
BEAMS edition JDM SS-II S54 -06A < Most likely to have an LSD (Viscous/Helical LSD)
JDM SS-III S54 -06D < Always had an LSD, (Viscous lsd?)
BEAMS edtion JDM SS-III S54 -06D < Always had an LSD (Helical LSD?)
JDM SS-II 94' superstrut E56- (Viscous LSD)

here's the ratio for the E56 if people are interested.
R -3.583
1 3.538
2 2.045
3 1.333
4 1.028
5 0.820
Final Drive 3.944

This post has been edited by Rusty: Nov 9, 2009 - 9:21 PM

[illtuned]

And Just to throw you off even more, the GT-Four does NOT have a front LSD - It has a viscous central coupling and a TORSEN rear diff.

JDM GT-Four E154F -08B

OT: (but possibly interesting)

While the GT-Four did not have a factory front LSD option, TRD units were available and were quite expensive due to the size of the housing. My friend purchased the last two in existence a few years back for a pro Rally team. Years ago they were $3000+.. the last few sold for quite a pretty penny.

(I own several Celica including GT-Four , ST185 x 2 and ST185 RC)

BTW, rear Torsen was NOT std equipment on all GT-Four. ST185RC - > ST205 did however. Earlier models were optional. Early ST165 didn't even have Viscous centers..




Great info in this thread - keep it coming!

[turnip]

hmm. Thats a lot of information to digest. Then how to determine between helical vs viscous?? I know for a fact that the S54 that came with my engine has an LSD based on some testing and observations. Based on the bar in the stock S54 and being able to see all the way through the case and no bar in the Beams tranny I got. I made the sin of assuming that all of the LSD transmissions would be the same by design. Take a look at the below Toyota transmission with LSD from a 20v 4age. With exception to the splines thats how my tranny looked with the LSD. I just took my stock GT transmission down in the woods but I might have time tomorrow to run down there and get some pics.



Here is the actual posting. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

This post has been edited by turnip: Nov 9, 2009 - 9:54 PM

[illtuned]

So your BEAMS has no bar in the S54? But, you believe it has LSD.. wow.. perhaps you are lucky and have gotten a TRD (Cusco) Clutch Type (mech./ salisbury) LSD. BONUS!


I know for a fact, that clutch type LSD don't have a bar.. I just picked on up for the ZZT-231. The open diff on the C64 (Celica GT-S trans) has a bar.


This must have something to do with the type of LSD.



Let's keep this going!

This post has been edited by illtuned: Nov 9, 2009 - 9:53 PM

[illtuned]

do a quick search- most people check for LSD by rotating axles/wheels or by visual check through the hole.

No bar? LSD
Bar? no LSD

This was pretty much what I believed to be the case 100%. but, now maybe the VC LSD are bar???!

[turnip]

do a quick search- most people check for LSD by rotating axles/wheels or by visual check through the hole.

No bar? LSD
Bar? no LSD

This was pretty much what I believed to be the case 100%. but, now maybe the VC LSD are bar???!

Thats exactly what I thought when comparing the two on my bench and thats what the importer told me as well. He had 3 other beams there when I picked up my engine and I checked every one of them and they all had bars. I would really like to figure out this mystery as I would love to have another one.

Has anyone welded the spider together in the stock tranny? Thats the poor mans LSD. Zero slip and on the dirt they last longer than the pavement.

This post has been edited by turnip: Nov 9, 2009 - 10:04 PM

[illtuned]

Seems like SW20 MR2 had an exception to this rule.

Other 'interesting' quotes from today's emails / research:

"The SW20 LSDs have a bar also. We checked this one and it spins like a LSD." (in reference to BEAMS for sale)

"Physically check as in putting the axle and turning one axle and the other side turn. The axle hole has a bar/slab metal, if there is non, its either a viscous lsd or aftermarket. The swap is from a SS-III"


^^ So.. yeah, dunno.. lol.. but hopefully will know before purchase, eh?

[illtuned]

more : http://www.mr2.com/forums/turbo-3s-gte/Toy...tification.html

Looking for the bar through the axle hole will verify if it's an LSD tranny or not. Bar = LSD. No bar = No LSD

more: http://www.toymods.net//forums/showthread.php?t=8949

The standard factory LSD has a cros bar through the centre of it. If you pull the stubs of the axles out of the box you'll either see a nice round hole straight through or a bar going across the hole.

The standard LSD's are viscous couplings so they don't lock if you just turn one axle by hand.

CONTRADICTS -

The crossbar doesn't indicate an LSD is present, atleast in an S series box. If you go down to your local toyota wrecker and have a look around you'll see that all of the S boxes have that cross bar no matter what car they're from. Not sure if the same applies to the E series boxes.

That last is possibly the most important. ^^

This post has been edited by illtuned: Nov 9, 2009 - 10:19 PM

[erahman85]

I'm soo confused...

[delusionz]

Afaik spinning the wheels is not an accurate test for LSD.

+ Helical LSD locks under deceleration, Viscous does not?

I remember when my GT4 was on the belly lifter and I turned the rear right wheel by hand and only the rear left spun and the front left spun.

Whats the difference between Helical and Torsen? ST205 is said to have torsen rear and central viscous, nothing up front.

I know there's nothing upfront because I'm told I need gearbox fluid WITHOUT friction modifier for lsd.

[illtuned]

Afaik spinning the wheels is not an accurate test for LSD.

I agree with you.

ST205 is said to have torsen rear and central viscous, nothing up front.

As did the ST185RC. All ST185 models had center Viscous Coupling and optional equipment Torsen Rear.

I know there's nothing upfront because I'm told I need gearbox fluid WITHOUT friction modifier for lsd.

Correct. There was a LSD option for up front, but it was mega expensive and aftermarket only.

[turnip]

S54 Open Diff
In the second picture thats light as you can see completely thru the open tranny.



This post has been edited by turnip: Nov 10, 2009 - 1:58 PM

[Levus]

Well i have a complete engine and tranny from an 1998 jdm non-beams blmzf 6gen celica.
I'm pretty sure that it has an lsd tranny (s54-06d) with it but i can't decide that it's a viscous or it's a helical lsd.
I have an st182 and i bought this engine just for backup. It happened that my original st182 tranny gave up (bearing sound) so i decided just to use the tranny from the st202 engine (my original st182 3s-ge is working flawlessly).
The LSD is there i'm sure about it, the wheel spinning (full throttle in first gear and steering full left and right) test is indicating this, although the cornering behaviour is totally different from the original st182 gearbox so the LSD is definitely there. What i can not figure out is the type of the LSD. Helical or Viscous ? I wants to know it just because of the oil type, i want to use the best oil for the gearbox.
Could you help me out at this ?

This post has been edited by Levus: Nov 12, 2009 - 4:38 PM

[Rusty]

I'd say Viscous for a non BEAMS LSD, though if its somewhat like a RWD diff/LSD the Viscous part is sealed off. And to tighen up a Viscous LSD, you'll need shims (look like big washers)

[delusionz]

Definitely viscous on the 95-97 E-ST202-BLMZF (SS-III).

I don't have information on the oil weight/ GL grade for the ST202's other than it should have an LSD friction modifier for the S54-06D.

Mechanical LSD for ST202 (atleast in those pre-beams years) is a TRD upgrade, Not standard.

----------------------

Definitely an LSD in the SS-III post 97 (aka Beams SS-III.), We still don't know if it's mechanical.

I assume that redtopbeams website you guys use is US. based? I wouldn't trust everything they say.

[Rusty]

In the case of SS-II BEAMS and BEAMS SS-II/SS-III autos is where its uncertain of LSD (yes/no and type).

[delusionz]

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1996_TOYO...BLMZF_4301.html

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLMZF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑20190 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1
41301‑20230 ST202..MTM..SS3; ｱﾘ(L.S.D) 1 $1,766.16
41301‑32060 ST202, 203..MTM 1 $512.72

Same part numbers.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1996_TOYO...BLMVF_4301.html

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLMVF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑32060 ST202, 203..MTM 1 $512.72
41301‑32060 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2) 1 $512.72
41301‑32061 ST202..MTM..(SS1, SS2) 1 $649.15

Same part numbers.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLPZF_4301.html

41311 CASE, FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
41301‑20112 ST202..ATM..(CV, SS2, SS3) 1 $649.15
41301‑20112 ST202..ATM..(SS2, SS3) 1 $649.15
41301‑32071 ST202, 203..ATM 1 $644.95

No mention of LSD.

[delusionz]

Guess we're settled now? All Manual SS-III have Viscous LSD
No SS-II has has LSD at all. (With the exception of 1995 Superstrut Equipped SS-II which is essentially SS-III before the trim level was introduced in 1996)
No Automatic ST202 has LSD.

[Rusty]

....yeah thought it seems suspicious that all the SS-I SS-II & SS-III had all different end codes to S54: -02A / -06A / -06D except when the SS-III changed to BEAMS SS-III...still had the same number, but apperently changed to a different LSD, a Helical LSD. (would have made sense to change the number)

also on TRD parts

LSD's
ST202･203･206･207 (94.2-98.7) Except below model
ST202･203･206･207 (93.10-95.8) Superstrut suspension model equipped with viscous L.S.D.
no talk of a standard helical LSD either (however only goes to 95)

[BonzaiCelica]

hmm i think im lost lets get these facts stickied on the 3sge engines post.

I have a question about making the 5th gear longer on the ss-III s54 tranny.

Would you have to use a s51 5th gear or the e56 5th gear? how about a longer final drive??

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Dec 9, 2009 - 12:25 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

So can anyone find the answer to my question or the post that was talking about s54 tranny. I already tried searching for that post, but I couldnt find anything.

[Rusty]

...............S54...... E56........ E154 (GT4)
Reverse -3.153... -3.583..... -3.545
1st........ 3.285..... 3.538 ..... 3.380
2nd ....... 1.960 .... 2.045 .... 1.910
3rd........ 1.322 .....1.333...... 1.260
4th........ 1.028..... 1.028...... 0.920
5th........ 0.820..... 0.820...... 0.730
Final Drive 3.944.... 3.944...... 4.290

255 km/h with the S54
261 km/h with the E56
269 km/h with the E154
^ I hope I've got those right

[Edophus]

hi guys, all ss-III's have an LSD, from 93.10-95.8 have an e56 transmission with viscous lsd. From that point on the ss-III's have an s54 with helical LSD.

ss-II's may have them as it was an option, so different to what some people think a beams engine does not always come with an lsd, only if it is from an ss-III is there any guarentee. Had a freind who got stung by the seller claiming the box was from a beams car so had an lsd, i did warn him its a gamble and in the end he took the chance but sadly it had no lsd .

I think the helical lsd is the same as the lsd used by the zzw30 mr2 spyder, not sure its exactly the same part but they are compatible with the s54 iirc but would need to confirm.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Dec 11, 2009 - 5:49 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

hey edophus ever get that confirmed whether zzw30 lsd can be fitted into the s54 tranny??

[delusionz]

So the 1996 SS-III with the 3rd Gen 3S-GE also has a Helical LSD being that it also had the S54-06D?

What was the E56 axel code?

[delusionz]

And any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota Levin/Trueno GT-Apex Silvertop 4A-GE 5 speed and BZ-R Blacktop 4A-GE 6 speed models?

Also do you have any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota MR2 Turbo models with the 3S-GTE E153 gearbox?

[Culpable04]

And any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota Levin/Trueno GT-Apex Silvertop 4A-GE 5 speed and BZ-R Blacktop 4A-GE 6 speed models?

Also do you have any information on the LSD equipped to the Toyota MR2 Turbo models with the 3S-GTE E153 gearbox?

the LSD on supercharged corolla / levin / trueno is interchangeable along all E series transmission,

the Levin supercharged comes iwth a E58 ( LSD ) transmission, this LSD can be installed in E56 ( same tranny non LSD ) and E153 found in MR2 turbo, Camry V6, Solara V6, ES300. << This is veriofied information and I have both trannies apart in case pictures are needed, internally these trannies are identical, except for the differences in years with some having dual synchros and better oil system. the Stock OEM LSD for these transmission was always viscous, in some countries there was a TRD dealer option, pre 1993 this option was hellical LSD, after 93 the options were hellical andclutch type ( usually used only on mr2s )

if the LSD is hellical you'll see a small ( ~ 5mm wide ) hole when looking insdie the transmission axle area, if the hole is rather large ( ~ 10mm ) is non LSD ) for clutch type, you'll be able to see the clutch discs. and OEM Viscous is easy to identyfy, you'll see the bar and a gear right before the bar, I'll try to get a picture of this.


I have heard that this is also true for s54 transmissions, the diff found on MR-S, Levin non supercharged and aftermakrget LSD made for either of these cars can be used on the s54 transmission but I have not personal experience with this fact.

[Rusty]

E56-04C is the full code delusionz

[presure2]

I have heard that this is also true for s54 transmissions, the diff found on MR-S, Levin non supercharged and aftermakrget LSD made for either of these cars can be used on the s54 transmission but I have not personal experience with this fact.

i have heard this as well.
apparently there is a guy over on mr2oc that has used the mr-s lsd diff in the s54 tranny.

[BonzaiCelica]

oOOOOHHHHH ok now I get it.

All SS-III celica's that came with 3rd gen or 4th gen 3S-GE engines came with torsen/helical LSD,

All SS-II that came with 4th gen 3S-GE Redtop is unconfirmed as to what kind of LSD it has, if any...

[delusionz]

Okay so the Supercharged Corolla / Levin / Trueno engine is the 4A-GZE from the model GT-Z which we know also uses an E series transmission, being the stronger type to hold the torque from a forced induction motor.. I was asking about the NA versions which are also Superstrut/LSD equipped namely GT-Apex and BZ-R which use C series transmissions. Are these Viscous or Helical and are they compatible with the S series and E series Gearboxes? Also wouldn't hurt to know about the Supercharged's E58 trans while we're at it.

I agree we should get a sticky on these gear boxes, their gearbox codes, axel codes, what year and models they came from, what type of LSD they are and if they are compatible with our gearboxes, and if the gearboxes are compatible with our engines, etc.

[Culpable04]

Okay so the Supercharged Corolla / Levin / Trueno engine is the 4A-GZE from the model GT-Z which we know also uses an E series transmission, being the stronger type to hold the torque from a forced induction motor.. I was asking about the NA versions which are also Superstrut/LSD equipped namely GT-Apex and BZ-R which use C series transmissions. Are these Viscous or Helical and are they compatible with the S series and E series Gearboxes? Also wouldn't hurt to know about the Supercharged's E58 trans while we're at it.

I agree we should get a sticky on these gear boxes, their gearbox codes, axel codes, what year and models they came from, what type of LSD they are and if they are compatible with our gearboxes, and if the gearboxes are compatible with our engines, etc.

the differential is not interchangeable between E series and S series transmissions, as for C series to S series it seems that they are pretty different, the part numbers of same year ( 1995 ) celica and levin are different which suggest the actual part is different.

the only diff that will fit in the S54 is the MR-S, LSD are mostly Viscous, with some OEM hellical in early productions ( pre 90s ) once hte viscous techonology was proven that became the standard on all LSD transmission with the option of hellical or clutch type through TRD.

I have a lot pf pictures where you can see the differences of HEllical, Viscous, and CLutch type when looking at the transmission, but I have no time right now to post them. maybe later I will get some time to post all that, their application and proven fitment list.

[delusionz]

Ok that would be awesome, On a different thread we got some information from Edophus which suggests the 1994 and 1995 JDM Celica with 3S-GE/Superstrut (Rare models under the SS-II submodel with a differing chassis number) had an E56 with Viscous, and from 1996 onwards the JDM Celica with 3S-GE/Superstrut (SS-III only) has an S54 with Helical LSD -- One that is similar in mechanical design to the ST205 rear diff.

And the parts database at TRDparts seems to support this theory if you read it the same way he does -- being that there are two different TRD 1.5-way replacements for both FWD Celicas equipped with Viscous and Helical.

[Rusty]

agree so if we can get all the transmission codes here in one place first, making sure they are correct. (maybe make a new topic and linking back to here for the discussion?) then I can finish the engine and transmission sticky thread. yay!

JDM Celicas
I dont know about the ST203 (4WS model) or the SS-II Convertible

SS-I
SS-I 1994-1999
S54-04A

SS-I ST203 4WS
(UNKNOWN)

SS-II
SS-II (1994-1997)
S54-06A LSD type: none

SS-II Convertible
S54-06A LSD type: none (unconfirmed)

SS-II Superstrut edition (1994-1995)
E56-07C LSD type: Viscious

SS-II BEAMS (1997-1999)
S54-06A LSD type: none as far as we know


SS-III
SS-III Superstrut (1995-1997)
S54-06D LSD type: Helical

SS-III Superstrut BEAMS (1997-1999)
S54-06D LSD type: Helical

GT-Four
GT-Four 1994-1999
E154F- 08B

GT-Four WRC

TRD
TRD Mechanical LSD I
To fit all ST202･203･206･207 (S54-###) 1994-1999 Superstrut or McPhearson strut. Factory equiped with a Helical lsd or no lsd.
41301-ST804

TRD Mechanical LSD II
To fit all ST202･203･206･207 (E56-04C/###) 1994-1995 Superstrut Factory equiped with a Viscious lsd only.
41301-ST000 Discontinued


USDM
ST

GT



how does that look so far easy to understand? Definitely add those tranny's/LSD that we can swap over. do we want to add the auto's? keep adding guys

This post has been edited by Rusty: Mar 12, 2012 - 1:04 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

yes very clearly understood Rusty. yea you got that info right on the trd lsd's. hmm SS-II with tranny cod S54-06A to have viscious LSD???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRD-clutch-...sQ5fAccessories

http://trdparts.jp/english/list_st-celica.html

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 25, 2010 - 2:36 AM

[Wintersun]

How do I find out what my 1998 SSIII beams if fitted with? Will there be a code on the VIN plate in the engine bay?

[Rusty]

will be on the firewall should be E-ST202- BLMZF then further down it'll show S54-06D (Helical) since its a SS-III Superstrut (BEAMS)

[BonzaiCelica]

there was 1000 made Europe V-Edition MR-S made in from 2005-2007, and they came with helical lsd. now looking from this link on the nengun website for lsd made for the zzww30 and sw20 n/a version mrs they both have the same part number.

http://www.nengun.com/trd/limited-slip-dif...tial-mechanical

[delusionz]

This is from my old 1995 SS-I:


This is from Rusty's 1996 SS-II:


This is from my old 1996 SS-III:


This is from my 1996 GT-Four:



This post has been edited by delusionz: Mar 25, 2010 - 7:23 AM

[delusionz]

So the Trans/Axel code for the SS-I was S54-04A

And apparently no Automatic Celica whatsoever, SS-III or not has any LSD, Could we confirm this?



Hey Rusty your trim is the same as mine on the GT4... Perhaps the trim relates to the 4 spoke steering wheel and the driver/passenger air bag, and the leather, etc.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Mar 25, 2010 - 7:27 AM

[Rusty]

cheers delusionz, I've added info above

hey wow it is interesting, maybe we can start a new thread in the interior unraveling the trim codes

Just want to confirm that the GT4 and GT4wrc have the same one?

Can we get the USA ST and GT owners adding what they have, would be a great help.

[BonzaiCelica]

uhh USDM cars dont have a badge like japanese ST202 and ST205 have. Can you get a more clear shot of your chassis code and tranny badge, please Rusty its hurting my eyes

[Edophus]

This is from my old 1996 SS-III:

cant remember where i got this from but i'm pretty sure the D on the and of the axle code there means you have a helical diff, in toyota terms its a 4 pin diff, which is helical, would be worth finding the info about the axles codes then you can work out from the vin plate what you have, not sure what the B means on the st205 plate, i think it only has a helical diff in the rear, but open diff up front, although i know some came with an optional helical front diff. I think the data rusty has posted is spot on, but i am a little drunk hehe.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Mar 27, 2010 - 5:25 PM

[presure2]

I have heard that this is also true for s54 transmissions, the diff found on MR-S, Levin non supercharged and aftermakrget LSD made for either of these cars can be used on the s54 transmission but I have not personal experience with this fact.

i have heard this as well.
apparently there is a guy over on mr2oc that has used the mr-s lsd diff in the s54 tranny.

the thread happen to come up again and i saw it so, for reference, here is the S54 info from mr2oc

Originally Posted by Jason.MZW20
Some OEM Toyota part numbers for you guys:

LSD differential, S54 (SW20, ST202):
41301-20190
- Substitute: 41301-20230

LSD differential, C56 (ZZW30):
41301-20230

It is a helical limited slip differential.