5sge Beams, Can it be done? Options

[freddy121389]

I want to do something no one has ever done, i want to do 5sge Beams. What are your thoughts? Can it be done? Do you think performance wise it would increase power dramatically? I also want to build it for nitrous. It's just a thought that I couldn't find anyone ever talking about on here. It won't be attempted for a couple years but I just want to figure out what I'm going to do to my celica.

[Mstoochn]

nothing that says it cant be done, a 5s-gte is a phenominal build if done right. I could only assume parts would be a hassle as would wiring.

sometimes being original can be painful

[freddy121389]

i want n/a ideally, i don't mind turbos at all, but there's something about n/a that I just love.

[nics]

^what is it?

[lilgreenyoda]

^Gas mileage?

[nics]

^maybe

[freddy121389]

the fact that people cant guess what's under your hood, beams are sexy in general, and idk something just appeals to me to never have to deal with a turbo.

[BonzaiCelica]

wait what!!! 5sge beams makes no sense. You want a 2.2 ltr 3sge beams??

[nics]

the fact that people cant guess what's under your hood, beams are sexy in general, and idk something just appeals to me to never have to deal with a turbo.

regular 5sge has been done, but the one with beams, maybe you should ask mr2 people. MR2OC

[BonzaiCelica]

how would you do a 5sge? use the block from a 5sfe and 3sge head?

[Mstoochn]

yes, 5s block with a 3s head, same valve train as the 3sge but bigger displacement. i managed 207hp (176.XX WHP) with a forged bottom end before buttoning up the turbo. just throwing that out there (gte head, NO beams) small increase over the 3s-ge but im running 8.5:1 pistons

This post has been edited by Mstoochn: Dec 1, 2009 - 7:50 PM

[nics]

i wanted to do that like last june but i didnt have much resources

[freddy121389]

mike did you use a 2nd or 3rd gen ge head?

[Mstoochn]

mike did you use a 2nd or 3rd gen ge head?

3rd gen with 264' BC cams

[pasqual]

I have my custom made cams for beams 278deg 11.2mm

and I used same for 3s-ge rev3 making 200hp+ with great torque
200Nm from 4700rom flat till end currently 7500rpm (will be 8200rpm )

so if You want do 5S-GE use 5S block

with my set: custom cams + 3s-ge rev3 head (prepared for 11.8 CR )

for this setup I can provide You more parts

ITB 4x45mm
Y-pipe calculated for new cams setting

[Rusty]

I have my custom made cams for beams 278deg 11.2mm

and I used same for 3s-ge rev3 making 200hp+ with great torque
200Nm from 4700rom flat till end currently 7500rpm (will be 8200rpm)

wow 278deg on a BEAMS your not running VVTI still are you?

what else is done to the rev3 3S to get get the +200BHP? I'd would like more details and dyno runs if you have them?



IMO I dont think a 5S block will work with a3S BEAMS head

[Mstoochn]

beams head will work fine with a 5s block, its just a matter of porting coolant lines.

[pasqual]

wow 278deg on a BEAMS your not running VVTI still are you?

what else is done to the rev3 3S to get get the +200BHP? I'd would like more details and dyno runs if you have them?

yes 278 deg with overlaping 61-75 deg (so vvti restricted to 14 deg )

more details about Beams in my profile .


Rev3 :

- customs cams (overlaping 70 deg )
- CR up
- piggyBack - fuel and Ign correction

till now exhaust and intake all ..stock

Working on upgrade intake header and exhaust ....
Results will provide soon ....

[BonzaiCelica]

I have my custom made cams for beams 278deg 11.2mm

and I used same for 3s-ge rev3 making 200hp+ with great torque
200Nm from 4700rom flat till end currently 7500rpm (will be 8200rpm)

wow 278deg on a BEAMS your not running VVTI still are you?

what else is done to the rev3 3S to get get the +200BHP? I'd would like more details and dyno runs if you have them?



IMO I dont think a 5S block will work with a3S BEAMS head

what do you mean your not running vvti are you? vvti is on the intake side not the exhaust cams. Maybe im not getting how the whole vvti works with the 3sge...

[Rusty]

Yes its a Blacktop 3S, its still the same cast (there is some extra machining on the blacktop where on the redtop is left undrilled)


using a 5S-FE block (I dont know how many revisions there are)


also your running a lower compression ratio of 9.5:1 in a 5sfe (compared to 11:1)

matter of porting coolant lines.

also the oil line to run vvti

it seems a lot of work to do all that, easier to go 3sge beams or 5sge with a 3rdgen head

[delusionz]

Isn't there a 2.2 stroker kit anyways?

[Mstoochn]

Isn't there a 2.2 stroker kit anyways?

for the 3s-gte yes, but not the 3s-ge.

cheaper to use a 5s block than bore out a 3s

[Rusty]

Isn't there a 2.2 stroker kit anyways?

ahh yes, I forgot about that, I dont know the specs for fitting but you could use a stroker kit (eg HKS, Jun, ATS Racing)

though due to the 3S-GE BEAMS engines being a different cast (so the above might not fit) you could maybe use the TODA stroker kits (one high compression and low compression for +T, fits 3S-GE Blacktop) so cant see why it wouldn't fit the redtop 3S?

but before you really start looking into the 5S-GE BEAMS build, I would really recommend to you, seeing a 2.0L 3S-GE BEAMS and a 5S-GE in action, maybe a 3S-GTE aswell??

[Rusty]

well been talking to another member lately about a BEAMS 5S-GE, so I'd thought I'd add them here.

... the coolant passages are quite different for a start but assuming you get past that, and then tap a line into the block for the vvti, and then also retrofit piston oil coolers into the block, then maybe you'll end up with an engine that puts out slightly more torque than the 2 litre beams, but one that doesnt rev aswell, somewhat nullifying the point, a stroker kit would acheive the same thing but there not popular for good reason, you can almost get to 2.1 litres by just boring the block and that wont give up anything, so sacrificing the revs for the extra stroke is imo pointless. Beams are happy revving up to 8krpm and 9000 when built....

...you probably lose about 500rpm by increasing the stroke to 5s-fe specs, i still dont think its worth the effort, you gain here and lose there, its not like the 3s-gte where the extra cc's will help to spool up the turbo, increasing the stroke and lowering the rev ceiling is counter productive to everything the beams head has been designed to do imo. And ulitmatly whilst increasing torque its just making the power band smaller, better to stick to revs and take advantage of the extra speed in each gear, or use overall shorter gearing to get more torque to the wheels more of the time.

...Also did some other reading on 5S, seems the JTCC went back to the 2.0L 3S-GTE rather than sticking with the 2.2L 3S-GTE

This is the 3S-GTE in the Denso Supra . They used to run the 2.2L crankshaft , but relaibilty , free-revs and slightly more boost saw it and the whole field in JTCC go back to 2.0L . Says something about all the hype with stroker motors . There isnt much info on these wild engines , except that they are fully prepped and TRD backed in Japan . TRD have put in more time to the 3S , than probably any other engine in thier race programes . They give out the common specs , but nothing too technical . Note the smaller inlet piping to the plenum , this is probably due to the restrictor they use and no need for a larger intake tube while keeping good velocities.

... glenn booth who has spent 10's of thousands of dollars of his own money developing his 300bhp na beams is not a fan of stroking it either, i think if all those people say no to stroking then its not the done thing!

This post has been edited by Rusty: Dec 13, 2009 - 1:37 AM