Engine Rebuild or 3S-GTE Swap, HELP PLEASE!!! Options

[CelicaST96]

I have a 1996 ST and I am having a hard time deciding to either rebuild the 7A-FE engine in right now with a good 263,000 miles on it or to at least try and find a good 3S-GTE engine. I'm not a big genious about the engine and everything quite yet, so I need some opinions about how to maximize the engine power in the 7A-FE or just get a swapped 3S-GTE. I just want a car that will be quick and depenable, so I want to put the best under the hood. Also price estimates for both a rebuild and swap would be extrememly helpful. Tell me anything that should be done to help my car get a lot better under the hood.

Thank you, opinions and information will help me understand a little more about these sweet 6G cars!!!

-Seth

[SwissFerdi]

Power and 7A-FE is a contradiction in the same sentence. NA, you can get maybe 130 HP at the crank, with turbo that rises to 220-240 on stock internals. However, there goes your reliability.

Being an ST, you'll need at least a GT tranny, motor mounts, GT shifter cables, and axles (not sure about those). You're looking at least at spending $2000 for the engine, another $1000 for the above and other assorted items...all in all, quite expensive.

In short, and in my opinion...if you want 100% reliability, rebuild the 7A. Having said that, if you find a good 3S-GTE (talk to Jim here) you should have no trouble running that reliably either, as long as it has good compression and maintenance is done once the engine goes in.

Hope this helps.

[Mstoochn]

4a-ge would be a better idea, easier swap

[CelicaST96]

Power and 7A-FE is a contradiction in the same sentence. NA, you can get maybe 130 HP at the crank, with turbo that rises to 220-240 on stock internals. However, there goes your reliability.

Being an ST, you'll need at least a GT tranny, motor mounts, GT shifter cables, and axles (not sure about those). You're looking at least at spending $2000 for the engine, another $1000 for the above and other assorted items...all in all, quite expensive.

In short, and in my opinion...if you want 100% reliability, rebuild the 7A. Having said that, if you find a good 3S-GTE (talk to Jim here) you should have no trouble running that reliably either, as long as it has good compression and maintenance is done once the engine goes in.

Hope this helps.

So are you saying if I were to turbo it, that would ruin the reliability? and who is Jim? haha And if I were to find a 3S-GTE, will I have to change a lot of things?

4a-ge would be a better idea, easier swap

Never heard of that type of engine, more details? Thanks!

[SwissFerdi]

So are you saying if I were to turbo it, that would ruin the reliability? and who is Jim? haha And if I were to find a 3S-GTE, will I have to change a lot of things?

Depends on how much boost you run; basically, you'll definitely be incurring more wear and tear on the engine, and at a certain boost point, will start hurting the internals, mainly the piston rods if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't mention this, but from what I know, the cost of a 7A-FTE and 3S-GTE setup is roughly the same. You won't need the axles, transmission, mounts, any of that for a 7A-FTE setup. You will need a turbo (duh), engine management system, and a tune (which is 700 alone!), and maybe a higher-performance clutch. For a 3S-GTE setup, you'll need the engine (duh again, hopefully), axles, GT transmission, and GT motor mounts, along with one from an ST205 for the rear passenger mount...if I'm not mistaken. The thing you'll need for either one is a front mount intercooler (should you not choose to use the stock top mount intercooler, which comes on the 3rd gen 3S-GTE) and all the intercooler piping, along with a custom exhaust.

Again, I probably missed something...but that's basically the gist of it.

[CelicaST96]

So are you saying if I were to turbo it, that would ruin the reliability? and who is Jim? haha And if I were to find a 3S-GTE, will I have to change a lot of things?

Depends on how much boost you run; basically, you'll definitely be incurring more wear and tear on the engine, and at a certain boost point, will start hurting the internals, mainly the piston rods if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't mention this, but from what I know, the cost of a 7A-FTE and 3S-GTE setup is roughly the same. You won't need the axles, transmission, mounts, any of that for a 7A-FTE setup. You will need a turbo (duh), engine management system, and a tune (which is 700 alone!), and maybe a higher-performance clutch. For a 3S-GTE setup, you'll need the engine (duh again, hopefully), axles, GT transmission, and GT motor mounts, along with one from an ST205 for the rear passenger mount...if I'm not mistaken. The thing you'll need for either one is a front mount intercooler (should you not choose to use the stock top mount intercooler, which comes on the 3rd gen 3S-GTE) and all the intercooler piping, along with a custom exhaust.

Again, I probably missed something...but that's basically the gist of it.

That helps a lot actually! Thank you, I just want to build my car with quite a bit of power so, personally would you go with the rebuild like you mentioned before or get a swapped 3S-GTE?

So are you saying if I were to turbo it, that would ruin the reliability? and who is Jim? haha And if I were to find a 3S-GTE, will I have to change a lot of things?

Depends on how much boost you run; basically, you'll definitely be incurring more wear and tear on the engine, and at a certain boost point, will start hurting the internals, mainly the piston rods if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't mention this, but from what I know, the cost of a 7A-FTE and 3S-GTE setup is roughly the same. You won't need the axles, transmission, mounts, any of that for a 7A-FTE setup. You will need a turbo (duh), engine management system, and a tune (which is 700 alone!), and maybe a higher-performance clutch. For a 3S-GTE setup, you'll need the engine (duh again, hopefully), axles, GT transmission, and GT motor mounts, along with one from an ST205 for the rear passenger mount...if I'm not mistaken. The thing you'll need for either one is a front mount intercooler (should you not choose to use the stock top mount intercooler, which comes on the 3rd gen 3S-GTE) and all the intercooler piping, along with a custom exhaust.

Again, I probably missed something...but that's basically the gist of it.

That helps a lot actually! Thank you, I just want to build my car with quite a bit of power so, personally would you go with the rebuild like you mentioned before or get a swapped 3S-GTE?

Honestly if I were to go with the rebuild, I don't want to put stock stuff back into it, I would plan on getting everything in high performance as much as I can.

[Mstoochn]

4a-ge is the hi-reving performance Naturally asipred version of the 7a-fe. which of course you can turbo
4a-gze, super charged version, used in the corolla ae86 (popular)

the 3s-gte is a better starting point but requires a little more effort. It's really something you need to research based off of WHAT you really want. problem with both engines is if you do want to make huge power you have to rip them aprt anyways

4a-ge is fairly drop a go, 1000$ for a blacktop, or a little less for a 20valve silver top then install costs
bank roughly 170bhp

gen3 3s-gte, 2500$ then install costs/parts (mounts)
bank roughly 250bhp

Now speaking on behalf of wasting 10grand on a rediculous 5s-Gte build, if you want a retardedly powerful motor you might as well find a junked 5s block and start from scratch 2.3L Stroker GE performance head blah blah blah. PM ME

This post has been edited by Mstoochn: Jan 20, 2010 - 8:59 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Like I said, there's no power to be had with an NA 7A-FE, so turbo's your options. So, in short, the 7A-FTE will give you 200ish HP, and will be just about the same cost as a 3S-GTE, which will give you 250ish horsepower...stock. The problem with the 7A-FTE setup is that it will get you to 200+ HP, but that's about the max...and you hit a wall. With the 3S-GTE, you get 250ish out of the box and that's just STOCK. Which means all you need to is turn up the boost and you've got more power. Go for the 3S-GTE.

[CelicaST96]

4a-ge is the hi-reving performance Naturally asipred version of the 7a-fe. which of course you can turbo
4a-gze, super charged version, used in the corolla ae86 (popular)

the 3s-gte is a better starting point but requires a little more effort. It's really something you need to research based off of WHAT you really want. problem with both engines is if you do want to make huge power you have to rip them aprt anyways

4a-ge is fairly drop a go, 1000$ for a blacktop, or a little less for a 20valve silver top then install costs
bank roughly 170bhp

gen3 3s-gte, 2500$ then install costs/parts (mounts)
bank roughly 250bhp

That is a huge amount of help! Thanks! If I were to get a 3S-GTE swap or even a 4A-GE, would you suggest rebuilding that and ripping the engine apart (just throwing that out there). That's the only thing I'm confused about after you telling me what you said. And those are just the stock engines' bhp, so I could increase those numbers as well?

[CelicaST96]

Like I said, there's no power to be had with an NA 7A-FE, so turbo's your options. So, in short, the 7A-FTE will give you 200ish HP, and will be just about the same cost as a 3S-GTE, which will give you 250ish horsepower...stock. The problem with the 7A-FTE setup is that it will get you to 200+ HP, but that's about the max...and you hit a wall. With the 3S-GTE, you get 250ish out of the box and that's just STOCK. Which means all you need to is turn up the boost and you've got more power. Go for the 3S-GTE.

I appreicate your help because I wouldn't have guessed any of this information. It would be a lot of pennies to get a 3S-GTE swap haha but I am leaning towards thinking that it will def. be worth the money due to the power of the engine increase that I will get. What are a few things I could do to the 3S-GTE engine to bump that horsepower and torque up?

[SwissFerdi]

I appreicate your help because I wouldn't have guessed any of this information. It would be a lot of pennies to get a 3S-GTE swap haha but I am leaning towards thinking that it will def. be worth the money due to the power of the engine increase that I will get. What are a few things I could do to the 3S-GTE engine to bump that horsepower and torque up?

Increase the boost. Simple.

And that reminds me of something I forgot; gauges. These aren't necessary, but nice to have. A boost controller, air/fuel mixture gauge, boost gauge, and...another I can't think of right now.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jan 20, 2010 - 9:14 PM

[CelicaST96]

I appreicate your help because I wouldn't have guessed any of this information. It would be a lot of pennies to get a 3S-GTE swap haha but I am leaning towards thinking that it will def. be worth the money due to the power of the engine increase that I will get. What are a few things I could do to the 3S-GTE engine to bump that horsepower and torque up?

Increase the boost. Simple.

Don't think I'm stupid cause I don't know much yet lol but how do you increase the boost? Run bigger numbers of PSI?

[CelicaST96]

I appreicate your help because I wouldn't have guessed any of this information. It would be a lot of pennies to get a 3S-GTE swap haha but I am leaning towards thinking that it will def. be worth the money due to the power of the engine increase that I will get. What are a few things I could do to the 3S-GTE engine to bump that horsepower and torque up?

Increase the boost. Simple.

And that reminds me of something I forgot; gauges. These aren't necessary, but nice to have. A boost controller, air/fuel mixture gauge, boost gauge, and...another I can't think of right now.

I was thinking about that too and I would def. get that kind of stuff! If it doesn't bother you I will be back on tomorrow and I'll have more questions that you could probably answer but I got to go! Thanks for the information BIG HELP!

[Mstoochn]

lol yes, more PSI via a boost controller. A stock gen3 wrc 3s-gte will run safetly around 20-21 PSI before things happen about 330whp

[soulshadow]

Do the V6 conversion I would say that's the most cheapest way to go. Since there's tons of v6 at junkyards with ecus and wirings.

[lagos]

I appreicate your help because I wouldn't have guessed any of this information. It would be a lot of pennies to get a 3S-GTE swap haha but I am leaning towards thinking that it will def. be worth the money due to the power of the engine increase that I will get. What are a few things I could do to the 3S-GTE engine to bump that horsepower and torque up?

Increase the boost. Simple.

Don't think I'm stupid cause I don't know much yet lol but how do you increase the boost? Run bigger numbers of PSI?

If you have to ask, you are not ready. sorry.

[BonzaiCelica]

^ what he said research research research. Then come back here and ask some sensible questions. Not that I know anything about forced induction and Im not trying to sound like an ass either. Im just saying.

[CelicaST96]

^ what he said research research research. Then come back here and ask some sensible questions. Not that I know anything about forced induction and Im not trying to sound like an ass either. Im just saying.

It's all good, I like opinions. I def. need to learn a crap load more before I do anything to the engine but the car needs something done to it in the Spring and that is my deadline, so what would be the best bet in your opinion?

[CelicaST96]

^ what he said research research research. Then come back here and ask some sensible questions. Not that I know anything about forced induction and Im not trying to sound like an ass either. Im just saying.

It's all good, I like opinions. I def. need to learn a crap load more before I do anything to the engine but the car needs something done to it in the Spring and that is my deadline, so what would be the best bet in your opinion?

[CelicaST96]

^ what he said research research research. Then come back here and ask some sensible questions. Not that I know anything about forced induction and Im not trying to sound like an ass either. Im just saying.

It's all good, I like opinions. I def. need to learn a crap load more before I do anything to the engine but the car needs something done to it in the Spring and that is my deadline, so what would be the best bet in your opinion?

[CelicaST96]

Give me more opinions and ideas! They are really helping me out. Thank You Guys!