Beams question Options

[Ted95]

hey guys, i was jw is there a difference between red top and black top beams? are they all the same engine with the same specs? is there a certain gen beams thats better then another or is there even different gen beams? lol and would it bult up on a 5s 5speed tranny? im guessing yes

[SwissFerdi]

Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:22 PM

[Ted95]

oh alright, see i didnt kno that.. and vvti acts as vtec too doesnt it.. like it will kick in in high range rpms?

[Ted95]

well wait idk if i believe that, bc i just seen a black top "BEAMS vvti" on ebay.... sooo ya lol idk

[SwissFerdi]

Later gen 3S-GE's got VVT-i, but I know for a fact that the only BEAMS engine is the redtop.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:30 PM

[Ted95]

ahh got ya.. but it does bolt up to a 5s tranny right?

[nics]

Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.

wrong. blacktops are dual vvti.

BEAMS 3sge are made by yamaha, comes with red, black and grey top.

blacktop has a lil more power

[Ted95]

Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.

wrong. blacktops are dual vvti.

BEAMS 3sge are made by yamaha, comes with red, black and grey top.

blacktop has a lil more power

see i thougt there was a red and black top beams.. so blacktop has more power??

[nics]

here, read through.

http://www.beams-redtop.com/index.htm

it has info on gray and blacktop as well

This post has been edited by nics: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:57 PM

[Ted95]

nice cool, thanks bro

[nics]

you're welcome

[SwissFerdi]

<--- ownt.

Appreciate the clarification nics.

[nics]

<--- ownt.

Appreciate the clarification nics.

nah. i was just trying to give right info

[BonzaiCelica]

guys guys you got it all wrong

Celica ST202 has a 3S-GE Beams Redtop with VVT-i on the intake inlet produces 197 hp at 7,000 rpm and 152 lb ft torque at 6,000 rpm. engine produced in December of 1997.

1998+ Altezza RS200 has a 3S-GE Blacktop with Dual VVT-i on both intake and exhaust inlet. produces 207 hp at 7,600 rpm and 160 lb ft torque at 6.400 rpm.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 7, 2010 - 5:38 PM

[nics]

^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?

This post has been edited by nics: Feb 7, 2010 - 6:42 PM

[Ted95]

^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?

i didnt see anythin wrong with wat u said lol i learned all of that today with all the info u gave me lol

[richee3]

^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?

You're wrong! You've got it all wrong! NO NO NO!!!!!



Good info. In addition to what has already been said, the Graytop produced similar numbers to the regular ol' non-Beams 3S-GE (~170hp), and was available in the RAV4 and the Caldina.

[nics]

and gray top comes in auto for rav4 right?

[Rusty]

is there a difference between red top and black top beams?

yes one is for FWD/also found in G-limited MR2's & other models (thats the redtop) one is for RWD (thats the blacktop) & wont fit FWD (there are more differences)

are they all the same engine with the same specs?

they are the same cast, except the blacktop has addtional drilling/ports for dual vvti. see above for specs ^^

is there a certain gen beams thats better then another or is there even different gen beams?

No, the BEAMS engines are consider to be all the same gen (4th Gen 3S-GE), also depends on your setup and how you define 'better'

and would it bult up on a 5s 5speed tranny?

yes, but they came standard with a LSD which you should look into, unless you like torque steer?

to get more information visit peoples beams swap threads or the sticky threads eg 3rd gen 3S-GE & redtop 4th gen 3S-GE info thread

This post has been edited by Rusty: Feb 7, 2010 - 11:24 PM

[Ted95]

is there a aftermarket header for the retop beams? ive searched on the internet all day and all night and cant seem to find anything.. ive seen some "3sge" motors w headers but not BEAMS..

[Tony-B]

Aftermarket parts for the red top Beams are hard enough to come by, try rhdjapan, bidjdm, nengun and perfectrun.jp.

Just remember it is an N/A engine, tuning will be expensive.

T

[BonzaiCelica]

no not all of you. only some nvm sorry for saying that.

[Ted95]

Aftermarket parts for the red top Beams are hard enough to come by, try rhdjapan, bidjdm, nengun and perfectrun.jp.

Just remember it is an N/A engine, tuning will be expensive.

T

ya i only want headers for it basically.. the motor is pretty bomb as it is, i would just think with a decent set of headers it would b better lol.. my ebay headers brought my 5s to live a lil bit so i would figure headers would b good on the BEAMS too

[BonzaiCelica]

nope no header for the 4th gen redtop beams engine. custom made is the only way!

oh and another question, will the celica with the redtop vs the mr2 g-limited that comes with the redtop as well produce the same amount of hp on the dyno.

I would think that the mr2 might produce a few more hp than the celica?

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 8, 2010 - 11:01 PM

[Rusty]

oh alright, see i didnt kno that.. and vvti acts as vtec too doesnt it.. like it will kick in in high range rpms?

nope, vvt-i does not act the same way as vtech. info about V systems

is there a aftermarket header for the retop beams? ive searched on the internet all day and all night and cant seem to find anything.. ive seen some "3sge" motors w headers but not BEAMS..

The only one I've seen available was called a "Phoenix's exhaust manifold" and as far as I know it's quite rare.



3S-GE's come with factory toyota extractors/headers which are very good flow well and dont have much restriction, Expect to gain ~12kw with a well thought out exhaust system, the full benefits come from head work & reprogrammable ecu's

oh and another question, will the celica with the redtop vs the mr2 g-limited that comes with the redtop as well produce the same amount of hp on the dyno.

I would think that the mr2 might produce a few more hp than the celica?

IMO they should have the same, however there are a number of factors which could influnance the results, including the accuracy of the dyno.

This post has been edited by Rusty: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:47 AM

[Edophus]

The blacktop beams is the best version of the beams, it has slightly more compression, larger valves and a higher volume oil pump and has a slightly higher redline as stock. But its configured for rwd so the water outlets different as is the headgasket and oilpickup/sump so these would need to be swapped, as would the intake and exhaust manifolds, all for redtop parts. The first problem you'd face putting it in a 6th gen is that the exhaust vvti controller wont clear the engine mount. Its so much extra work to swap in than just a redtop that you'd have to be mad to try it, like me i'm putting one into a 5th gen, but we dont have the problem of the engine mount clashing and i got my engine really cheap so its not any different to me having bought a redtop by the time i've swapped all the parts over.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Feb 9, 2010 - 11:59 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

btw for some of you that think that pheonix header is the name brand of the header. Pheonix is a guy on the mr2 forums that had created custome made header as a group buy and they cost everyone around $800. It mainly just for looks id say, might squeeze a few extra hp with a custom made header with no head work done to the engine.

and really you say 20 extra hp with an aftermarket stand alone ecu no way!

[Ted95]

those are some bada$$ lookin headers, whether they r for looks or not they look sick... im just going to do a redtop swap once a get about another ~300 .. i want to do it prob around july i would hope, if i can find one in my price range by then, they arent to bad for prices..

but would i have to change my motor mounts or could i use my 5s motor mounts? IFF i can use my 5s motor mounts ill replace them with new ones, im not to sure if theres a difference or not..(still doing my research on this swap) .. like the gauage cluster PROB gunna need a new one of those that takes me to 7250redline

[njccmd2002]

we are running out of reds. they are selling like candy.

better get yours now///

[Ted95]

can i use the stock GT 5speed shifter box and conect that to the 3sge shifter cables and tranny? or is there a slight difference?

[Batman722]

I drive a Beams and I drive an st205 motor every other day.
There is no comparison.
The Beams is fun but the 205 pwns all.

[pasqual]

nope no header for the 4th gen redtop beams engine. custom made is the only way!

my custom

[Ted95]

I drive a Beams and I drive an st205 motor every other day.
There is no comparison.
The Beams is fun but the 205 pwns all.

lol i kno manny tells me all the time. idk im just not sure of the 205 would work for me in my situation, its my daily, i drive ALL over all the time and i live in east bumfcuk lol takes me 25min to fall river and almsot 30min to dartmouth bc i live on the water. manny says theres not a big difference in gas between the beams and the 205 but i still dk the numbers on wat ppl get to a tank (and ik it depends on my right foot too lol)

honestly this is my goal.. to have a car that looks good (which is easy bc celicas r friggin sexy) and to have somethin that gets up and go wen i need it to but still drives normal. i read ur 205 build thread and i seen wat went wrong with the car w ur axels and stuff idk, jus seems like i would b fixing alot of things that i cant afford.

I JUST WANT TO BEAT HONDASSSSS!!!!!!! lmfao

wats ur opinion then?

[njccmd2002]

nothinig sexier that a reb beams in a black engine bay!!!

[presure2]

I drive a Beams and I drive an st205 motor every other day.
There is no comparison.
The Beams is fun but the 205 pwns all.

lol i kno manny tells me all the time. idk im just not sure of the 205 would work for me in my situation, its my daily, i drive ALL over all the time and i live in east bumfcuk lol takes me 25min to fall river and almsot 30min to dartmouth bc i live on the water. manny says theres not a big difference in gas between the beams and the 205 but i still dk the numbers on wat ppl get to a tank (and ik it depends on my right foot too lol)

honestly this is my goal.. to have a car that looks good (which is easy bc celicas r friggin sexy) and to have somethin that gets up and go wen i need it to but still drives normal. i read ur 205 build thread and i seen wat went wrong with the car w ur axels and stuff idk, jus seems like i would b fixing alot of things that i cant afford.

I JUST WANT TO BEAT HONDASSSSS!!!!!!! lmfao

wats ur opinion then?

lmao.
the problem dustin had with his axle was because of the hybrid axles. you would more than likely be using the stock S54.
the reliability is equal between both motors, man. turbo or not, your gonna have to play under the hood from time to time.
its part of ANY swap.
repeat that. over and over.
forget the thought that if you do an N/A swap, all your problems go away.
if you plan things out properly, take your time, and do it right, any swap you do will be just as reliable as the 5s thats in your car now.
it cracks me up that your worried about gas milage, but at the same time, you "just want to beat hondas"...and drove a mustang V6 before this car.

[Ted95]

I drive a Beams and I drive an st205 motor every other day.
There is no comparison.
The Beams is fun but the 205 pwns all.

lol i kno manny tells me all the time. idk im just not sure of the 205 would work for me in my situation, its my daily, i drive ALL over all the time and i live in east bumfcuk lol takes me 25min to fall river and almsot 30min to dartmouth bc i live on the water. manny says theres not a big difference in gas between the beams and the 205 but i still dk the numbers on wat ppl get to a tank (and ik it depends on my right foot too lol)

honestly this is my goal.. to have a car that looks good (which is easy bc celicas r friggin sexy) and to have somethin that gets up and go wen i need it to but still drives normal. i read ur 205 build thread and i seen wat went wrong with the car w ur axels and stuff idk, jus seems like i would b fixing alot of things that i cant afford.

I JUST WANT TO BEAT HONDASSSSS!!!!!!! lmfao

wats ur opinion then?

lmao.
the problem dustin had with his axle was because of the hybrid axles. you would more than likely be using the stock S54.
the reliability is equal between both motors, man. turbo or not, your gonna have to play under the hood from time to time.
its part of ANY swap.
repeat that. over and over.
forget the thought that if you do an N/A swap, all your problems go away.
if you plan things out properly, take your time, and do it right, any swap you do will be just as reliable as the 5s thats in your car now.
it cracks me up that your worried about gas milage, but at the same time, you "just want to beat hondas"...and drove a mustang V6 before this car.

manny that thing was a pig! i got like 15-16 miles to a gallon with a 10 gallon tank... thats 150-160 miles to a tank lol idk if u kno where i live but i was fillin up twice almost 3 times a week lol. im fine with havin a N/A motor, ya boost is friggin awsume but i dont really need it, i dont race all the time anyway so theres no need for me t get the st205.
tell me if im wrong or right here.. everyone knows that a stock celi is wat honda fags calll a "bogga" lol, now if i were to pull up on lets say a gsr swapped civic or jus some vtec, if they dont hear the sexy turbo whistle they will think its an easy win over a bogga no? now my opinion is that with the beams being a N/A motor they wont relize its swapped until they are reading my TRD emblem on my trunk haha, idk maybe i am wrong with that therory, but i kno wat i want and i DO RESPECT your thinking and suggestion on the st205 but i want a Beams, and a Beams is wat i will buy lol



niceeeee headers bro, did u feel a difference at all?

[JuMPiiN]

Doesnt the BEAMS engine cost just as much as a 3sgte ?

[njccmd2002]

depends. but no

almost, but you still have to anticipate the unexpected....

it is a rare engine, i went for it because i do not want turbo, and if i do, i can turbo a 5sfe, i think 300 is fairly reasonable, and can be achieved with a proper tuned engine

more than that you need 3sgte.

the question is what do you want to achive and how deep are your pockets.

[Batman722]

any new thoughts Cam ?

[Ted95]

any new thoughts Cam ?

YEPPP!!! lol already emailed someone about shipping quotes lol.. it might not happen right away but soon enough ill b drivin a st205 powered coupe lol

[njccmd2002]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

[Ted95]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

its no longer listed online but i still have it on my watch list so i could pm you the info on it to contact them and such. the only reason why i didnt get it was bc of the shipping. from cali to mass it was like $600 bucks and i didnt really have that much to afford on shipping at the moment.

pm me and ill get u the stuff if u want.

and btw i drove dustins st205 last night and it opened my eyes on what my celi could be and the potential it has and he pretty much convinced me that for almost the same price i could have a really fun beams or a bad a$$ st205 lol

This post has been edited by Ted95: Mar 9, 2010 - 6:56 AM

[presure2]

apology accepted.

[lagos]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

[2bcelica]

Yep -- Beams is nice, but it gets old quick and then you'll want more power.

[Ted95]

Yep -- Beams is nice, but it gets old quick and then you'll want more power.

thats wat i was told and refused to believe until i had a taste of the st205. and dustin said the two engine sets are almost around the same price.. hmm so why not go big the first time? lol spend the money once not twice.

[njccmd2002]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

really depends on goals.

[lagos]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

really depends on goals.

Whats the goal? To have a slow car?
Those things put down MAYBE 170hp at the wheels. Thats really nothing amazing.

I do agree that they are "cool" because they are rare and come with a red valve cover and a catchy name, but if you want more power out of a 4cyl motor, you're going to want a turbo charged engine.

[njccmd2002]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

really depends on goals.

Whats the goal? To have a slow car?
Those things put down MAYBE 170hp at the wheels. Thats really nothing amazing.

I do agree that they are "cool" because they are rare and come with a red valve cover and a catchy name, but if you want more power out of a 4cyl motor, you're going to want a turbo charged engine.

My goal was to be able to do a swap by myself, with no help, and complete. I knew nothing about cars, now i do some.

Why does everybody think that everybody's goal is to do 300 hp.

Slow car yes, but you got to learn somewhere, not everybody gets high with turbo. I wanted to learn and i did, maybe in the future, i may get a turbo car, but for now i have achieved what so many talk about, and never do

I have nearly Completed a swap. With no help, and Im happy, actions are bigger than words.

Yes i have a slow sexy car, but that is what i want for now.

Some people like it some dont, I dont care, i can have anything i want, and I chose wisely for now...

And don take this the wrong way, you know more than i would ever know about cars, and i respect that, but please dont downgrade my accomplishment. To me its amazing, what i have done and that I never tought about quitting in a single moment.

end of rant. LOL

No more threadjacking.

[SwissFerdi]

Why does everybody think that everybody's goal is to do 300 hp.

That.

I've been in two 3S-GTE swapped Celicas, and both rides were amazing. The engine is a beast, much more so than I ever expected. However, it's not for me. Too many different factors involved in swapping (however, those factors are extremely well documented) and let's face it, the 3S-GTE swap is very, very common now. IF I were to swap, I would strongly consider a BEAMS or 4A-GZE. However, I'm pretty sure I'm set on a 7A-FTE setup.

There are ridiculously nice 3S-GTE swapped Celicas, ridiculously nice Celicas that carry an OEM engine with aftermarket turbocharging. The main point is, do what you want and what makes you happy.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Mar 9, 2010 - 7:38 PM

[hurley97]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

really depends on goals.

Whats the goal? To have a slow car?
Those things put down MAYBE 170hp at the wheels. Thats really nothing amazing.

I do agree that they are "cool" because they are rare and come with a red valve cover and a catchy name, but if you want more power out of a 4cyl motor, you're going to want a turbo charged engine.

I agree it depends on your goals and I agree that not everybody's goal is maximum power, but the kid wants to beat hondas...

[Ted95]

oh no, traitor...

BEAMS is sexier. LOL, thats ok, i may buy that beams i showed you if still available.

The idea of owning one is better than the reality, it seems.

really depends on goals.

Whats the goal? To have a slow car?
Those things put down MAYBE 170hp at the wheels. Thats really nothing amazing.

I do agree that they are "cool" because they are rare and come with a red valve cover and a catchy name, but if you want more power out of a 4cyl motor, you're going to want a turbo charged engine.

I agree it depends on your goals and I agree that not everybody's goal is maximum power, but the kid wants to beat hondas...

lmao yes i do and def found the way to go after last night. beams was a fun ride dont get me wrong but the st205 wasnt only jus kick asss power it was also a smooth ride driving normal which for what ever reason i didnt think it would be (prob bc i never experienced it until now)

[Rusty]

I agree with you njccmd2002

I for one dont believe in engine swaps, maybe because where I'm from if you want a 3sgte celica you just go down the road and buy one, pretty much. So IMO a swapped celica will never be the same as a true GT-4 celica. However I know that some countries wheren't lucky enough to get them so I understand why you swap and respect the amount of effort you put in.

[BonzaiCelica]

ya well it depends if your a fan of n/a or turbo. yes 169 whp will be produced with a beams while maybe 225 whp will be produced with a 3sgte.

if you want to beat hondas then yes 3sgte is defintaly the way to go, but you can still beat honda's with the redtop if you decide to drop some weight off the celica. Stock american ITR weighs 2600 lbs the same as a gt celica, so it would be a pretty close race. 195 vs 197 hp celica.

[Ted95]

ya well it depends if your a fan of n/a or turbo. yes 169 whp will be produced with a beams while maybe 225 whp will be produced with a 3sgte.

if you want to beat hondas then yes 3sgte is defintaly the way to go, but you can still beat honda's with the redtop if you decide to drop some weight off the celica. Stock american ITR weighs 2600 lbs the same as a gt celica, so it would be a pretty close race. 195 vs 197 hp celica.

that is true and it would be a good race to see, but i dont want them to see me lol i now want them to see the TRD emblem on the back of my trunkl pull further and further away lol