need help....rebuilding a 5sfe, new problem, wont start nor crank !! Options

[Malhar95]

car info:
1995 toyota celica gt convertible

okay so when i got my car, i didnt really know what all is wrong with it. When i wend to the mechanic, he said i have low compression on one of the cylinders. He suggested a new engine. THen i went to another mechanic. he took some tubes out and told me one on my valve is bent and suggested a new cylinderhead.I got it to work, and installed ebay headers and an intake. about two weeks ago, i blew my header gasket.
Now i ordered a new cylinderhead from ebay :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...RK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

my brother now tells me to rebuild the complete engine. He says i now need the following:
Bearings
pistons
motor mounts
crankshaft
oil pump
waterpump
timing belt
gasket set
lubricants and sealants


i found a rebuild kit on ebay for 300 dollars shipped but it doesnot have the crankshaft, pumps and timing belt.

i was just wanted to know if this is all i need and/or something else. and how much would the labor be for some stuff i cannot do it myself.

please help me i would really appriciate it.

if some of u live near houston texas (tx) can you meet me and tell me all i need!

This post has been edited by Malhar95: Aug 17, 2010 - 3:35 AM

[Johnnyny]

Go to your toyota dealer and order a rebuild kit

[Smaay]

yeah dont get those ebay kits, get the real OEM kit. look at the thread i wrote for rebuilding the 7A-FE, the 5S-FE is very similar.

[stephen_lee]

if your asking what you need to rebuild a motor, i wouldnt tackle the job. rebuilding is not a fast process, as you need to pull the engine apart, determine if the crank is in good shape or if you have to grind it, which determines what size bearing you need to order (from toyota) if the cyl walls are out of round or too pitted/scored to just hone and reuse, if they are u need pistons, and over sized rings.

Basic rebuild list:

correct size rod bearings
correct size main bearings
thrust washers/bearings
piston rings (maybe pistons, too)
gasket kit
oil/water pump
timing belt/tensioner

plus odds and ends like FIPG, assembly lube, oil, power steering fluid, trans oil/fluid, ect.

[Malhar95]

well since the car has 400K+ miles, im pretty sure some stuff will be cracked and out of specifications. My co-worker says that my 'bore size' or cylinder might be a litter bigger/fatter so suggests me to get oversized pistons! he says the only way im gonna figure the rite size is by sending it over to a machine shop!

now since im planning to get the most performance out of my car, im planning to get:

a 3sgte (and/or gt4) manifold with some sort of turbo
i want rx7 fuel injectors (i think someone on 6gc has them not sure)
and bigger pistons


since im a noob, i just wanted to know what else can i do and what exaclty i need for turboing my GT within a budget

my budget is somewhere around 500 give or take

[bmj67]

you wont be able to turbo for 500 and do it right use the search button and read the stickies all questions have been covered numerous times before

[stephen_lee]

stop. you cant rebuild for 500, much less turbo. buy a used motor, swap it out, and then save and do a proper build and turbo the built motor. untill then, READ a lot. pressure2 has a 5sfte, look up his threads, search feature is your best friend right now.

[m2736185]

yeah dont get those ebay kits, get the real OEM kit. look at the thread i wrote for rebuilding the 7A-FE, the 5S-FE is very similar.

Whats wrong with the eBay kits? I have used them in the past and I have never had a problem with them.

[Malhar95]

Why can't I rebuild it for 500... I already have a new head with all the cams and valves etc. And I pulled it out of my car yesterday! Now all I have to do it tale it apart rite?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I was just planning to take it apart, put the head aside and start cleaning, once clean...send it to machine shop to determine the size of my cylinder/bore size and then order new pistons and rings depending on the bore size...then assemble it and install it in my car?!? Rights?

[95CelicaST]

sounds cheap and easy, but it isn't.


Well all I need for a 3sgte swap is the motor for $2000, all I have to so is drop it in and connect everything, right? So why can't I do a 3sgte swap for $2000?


You cannot rebuild a motor on $500. Hell, I have that much into my timing belt kit, clutch, and tuneup stuff (distributor, cap and rotor, plugs and wires) which if you're doing a full rebuild you'll be doing all of the above.

[stephen_lee]

rebuild

cheap kit: 300
Parts not included:
power steering fluid: 8.00
engine oil 30.00 - 50.00
oil filter 5.00
transmission oil/fluid 25.00
machine work 100-500
spark plugs 25.00
plug wires 50.00
dizzy cap & rotor 35.00
assy lube 15.00
plastigauge 9.00
piston ring compressor 15.00
vac lines 20.00
MISC **** YOU WILL BREAK/FIND BROKEN: 10.00-500.00

TOTAL: $647.00 - $1557.00

CHEAPEST REBUILD POSSIBLE, NON TOYOTA PARTS

[mkernz22]

if you're looking to put a turbo on there, you also have to change the compression ratio of the engine otherwise you will blow it after a while. the more boost you add, the easier it will be to blow it. what you should do is just save up for a 3sgte and rebuild that because it comes stock with the turbo so the compression will be right for a turbo, and it has over 100 more horses than your 5s-fe. it will save you some money (in some respect) and you will have a fast car.

[95CelicaST]

I think that has well been disproven. There are many people on here who turbo an unopened 5s and make reliable power - presure2 can attest to that.


To add to the list above, $150 for the cheapest clutch kit, plus $30-$40 to resurface the flywheel.


I just spent $100 on coolant, oil filter, gear oil, and a couple other miscellaneous fluids. It adds up REAL fast.

[Malhar95]

okay well forget the turbo...im just bringing it back to stock specifications.


the engine is out, transmition disconected and the head out. when i fliped my head over, the valves looked pretty worn out. ill put some pics up soon.

now im gonna send it to a machine shop and see whats up,
oh and btw, the timing belt cover has a barcode and says "5s a83" is that normal??

[JuMPiiN]

No way in hell your going to rebuild for 500. Machine work alone will prob cost that much. A good OEM rebuild kit is prob close to 5-1200$ just depends... And you want to upgrade pistons that alone is 3-700$ the you have to take it to the machine shop bore it over, get it hot tanked, ext... Just plain and simple no. Def go to google and use the search feature on this site. A cheap rebuild just means your going need another one soon. And you said turbo and rebuild for 500... Dude a turbo alone cost around 500 and that isn't including everything else. Before you attempt any of this I suggest you stay at the computer reading ALOT before you under go this task. Fluids alone are over 100$.

[Smaay]

well im not gonna put fuel on the fire. enough people have bashed your 500 rebuild idea. and they are all correct! buying a used longblock is your cheapest option, but then again its still used. if you already have everything out. just rebuild it, but expect to pay about 1000 not 500. and you dont need lower compression pistons. In fact now that i have more experience with turbo systems, i would raise the compression in my 7th gen celica from 8.8:1 to 10:1. lesst boost will make more power. its all in the tuning. and using billit pistons instead of cast will handle the higher pressures.

[Malhar95]

wow talk abt getting support. lol

well i know i would have to put a lil bit more than 500 but not that much,

as of now, my engine is out, head and tranny seperated and a machine shop appointment set for next thursday. they said they'll take 30 dollars to inspect it and check for leaks/cracks and tell me the bore size. if not much of a difference then im gonna get new pistons.

i have a new head with all the stuff, have all the fluids and most of the misc. stuff just to be sure.
my crank and pistons dont look that bad btw. but not too sure.

[JuMPiiN]

Dude it will take a lot more than 500 not a little a lot, read some of the threads on this site the guys in here are very helpful and friendly. And try only bash and get attitudes when crazy dumb questions are asked. You may be able to rebuild for 500 I don't think you can but you might, but to turbo your car I think it would take a minimum of 1500. And that 1500 is finding a good deal on the parts you need on forums like this one and mr2oc and a few others. The turbo alone is atleast 300.

[hatchy_gt-s]

A total engine rebuild will be more the 500, I would now this since I just rebuilt mine.
(all these part I got a discount)
Cost/Parts:
Crank machined-$100
Head Machined-250
Piston rings-$40
Valve Springs-$32
Gasket Set-$50
Water Pump-$60
Oil Pump-$80
Thermostat-$20
Total-$632
Thats just for the hard parts I got, that doesnt include fluids, new bolts, plugs, dissy, exe. How much did I plan on spending in the begining $500 how much did I end up paying a little under $1500 including sum aftermarket parts, about $1000 in OEM rebuild.
Im not saying you cant rebuild it for $500 but if you set you limit a little higher like $700-$800 you might find you not having to spend your whole budget.

Edit: This is what that $1500 got me.


This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Jul 4, 2010 - 1:56 PM

[JuMPiiN]

That thing is nice and looks beastly ! lol

[Malhar95]

okay well i started everything,
my block turned out to be fine so no machine work... $30 inspection
crank was resurfaced and grinded... $50 work
head is new so no problem there
ordering new rebuild kit... $225 from ebay



so my work actually did come out to be cheap...lol

here are some pics


before grinded crank




all clean engine sort off:





btw i have a question...how to i clean this and get it painted red? any suggestions?










here is the reason for all problems!! (a lot of shaking every time i stopped/idling)








pistons:








and do you guys think i should replace my pistons?? or can i reuse them??




thanks for all the help guys!!

[stephen_lee]

eBay rebuild kit? fail.

[Malhar95]

whats wrong with ebay kits??

[Johnnyny]

whats wrong with ebay kits??

bad quailty and its from ebay....

[hatchy_gt-s]

whats wrong with ebay kits??

Ebay

[JuMPiiN]

Your prob going to have to rebuild in the next year maybe a bit longer. But it will get the job done temporarily

[mkernz22]

honestly, if you already have your engine apart and you have the money to spend on it right now, replace as much of the internal components as you can. There is no point to put back in what you originally had and then wait a few months to re-open it and rebuild it again with newer parts. That's just a big waste of time, and some money. Time and money management is key.

[mak5603]

Might as well replace the pistons.

[stephen_lee]

ebay = .5% of toyota quality

whats wrong with ebay kits??

[RavenAegis45]

That thing is nice and looks beastly ! lol

X2!!!!!!!!!

[RavenAegis45]

whats wrong with ebay kits??

well it all depends really, most ebay kits are a compilation of aftermarket parts, some are ok but some aren't. really it can go either way, I've read alot of bad reviews about people rebuilding there engines using ebay kits but i have read a few good reviews too. but if you are going to buy a rebuild kit go for the most expensive one on ebay not the cheapest those are usually the worse. in all fairness you seem like you know how to take an engine apart, if you can put it together the same way ounce you prep all the parts it should be fine (assuming you got a fairly good ebay kit)

[Malhar95]

well im not gonna lie, ebay kit wasnt all quality...it did have some parts (gaskets) missing...but nothing major.

Your prob going to have to rebuild in the next year maybe a bit longer. But it will get the job done temporarily

if thats the problem im not worried cause eventually im gonna get the 3sgte swap done once i get enough money...My purpose was temporary...

as of now, the engine is in the car but getting everything hooked up like the sensors, mounts wiring etc.

And now i see why u guys were telling me its not possible to do a rebuild for under 500 dollars LOL! stuff comes up and now i understand, but in my defense, im a noob and this isnt just my 1st car, its the 1st time im actually working on a car!

once again thanks guys and ill keep u updated

[stephen_lee]

whats the running total? lol

[JuMPiiN]

If you paid under 500 i dont beleive you got everything to do a rebuild... I have 500 just in a tune up and partial rebuild i actually have about 800 or a little more in a tune up and partial rebuild.... If you did it for 500 props.. but i give you less than a year.

[Malhar95]

well like i said before, i already had a new head with the valves and cams etc. so thats out of the budget,

1. the kit cost around $250
2. fluids cost me around $50 (i had most of them already)
3. BOLTS were around $100-$150
4. mics./gaskets $50
5. mounts $188 for front and back
6. CV axles $120
7. machine work: $160-$180 (includes machined crank and fake sleeve (the guy later told me i need a sleeve as honing wouldnt help and charges me $80 to "sleeve" it and when i got it back he in reality just honed it and charged me $80...if ur in houston DON'T go to "joeys machine shop"))

so total about $900 dollars plus some labor cost to my mechanic.

so yea it was over LOL

[stephen_lee]

check my rebuild estimate. lol

[Malhar95]

check my rebuild estimate. lol

hate to admit it but you were rite bro!

[stephen_lee]

did you check oil clearances (plastigauge)?

[hatchy_gt-s]

That thing is nice and looks beastly ! lol

X2!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

well like i said before, i already had a new head with the valves and cams etc. so thats out of the budget,

1. the kit cost around $250
2. fluids cost me around $50 (i had most of them already)
3. BOLTS were around $100-$150
4. mics./gaskets $50
5. mounts $188 for front and back
6. CV axles $120
7. machine work: $160-$180 (includes machined crank and fake sleeve (the guy later told me i need a sleeve as honing wouldnt help and charges me $80 to "sleeve" it and when i got it back he in reality just honed it and charged me $80...if ur in houston DON'T go to "joeys machine shop"))

so total about $900 dollars plus some labor cost to my mechanic.

so yea it was over LOL

Ya see we know what we're talkin about!

[Malhar95]

okay guys so the engines in, mounts, CVs, and everything is hooked up!
but when i turn the keys, the stereo works, the lights work, everything in the interior works, even the fans on the radiator works, but the car does not start!!

when i turn it to "start" the clock and stereo loses power! And thats it!

no engine crank to nuthing!
i do hear this clicking sound near the relays box!!


any suggestions!?? i really need help guys!

could it be the starter? i mean it was fine before the rebuild started, and now i THINK that might be it

i did pull it out so i can take it to autozone or something and get it checked out...and when i try to start it, it does the same thing!

please help me out!

[D-Man]

Okay yeah, E-Bay kit is failboat city. Hah.

Also, Steven is a mad geinus, Heed his words.

Finaly, Do not Never, Ever doubt the ability for things to fail on you when you haven't even touched them.

You're only getting a clicking sound? No "reh-Heh" noise at all? Could be starter. Is everything grounded well? And you replaced the large gauged positive starter terminal cable on it TIGHTLY? That can lead to a burt out starter too.

What was the result of the test anyway?

[Malhar95]

starter is fine, changed the plug but same symptoms...
and if the kit was bad, then should i be getting the "reh-heh" sound or something?

[Malhar95]

oh and i do smell a little gas(petrol)...not much but just a little!

[rave2n]

Air, Fuel, and Spark? Got'em, find what your missing, start from there.

[JuMPiiN]

Grounds.....

[Malhar95]

rave2n Posted Today, 04:15 PM
Air, Fuel, and Spark? Got'em, find what your missing, start from there.

how do i check

Grounds.....

if it was a grounding error...should i not be able to listen to the stereo or anything?

[pipes]

rave2n Posted Today, 04:15 PM
Air, Fuel, and Spark? Got'em, find what your missing, start from there.

how do i check

Grounds.....

if it was a grounding error...should i not be able to listen to the stereo or anything?

check your fuse box and make sure you clipped it in properly because you prolly have it loose

[RavenAegis45]

Grounds.....

I was thinking the same thing, I helped with an Engine swap in my friends Civic, we did everything right hooked up everything the way it was suppose to be hooked up and it wouldn't start, we started looking around and my friend bumped a wire against the frame and a huge spark scarred the crap outta us and I asked if he connected the grounds, funny thing it was all it needed lol

[chinamandrift]

use a volt meter dc volt setting

pos lead to starter casing

ned lead to neg post on the battery

have a friend turn the key trying to crank

while trying to crank you should have less then .2v or 200mv

if you have any more then that you have a bad ground connection or ground wire

[Malhar95]

okay i was looking through all the wires, and then WOW....i forgot to ground the starter!!!
i felt so dumb!!!

but another problem cam up, now gas is leaking from the injector place...

which brings up another question..

are there any kind of rings which to in the injectors or rail or head cuz i had A LOT of them left after the rebuild...


i picture would really be nice, like of what goes b/w the injectors...

[RavenAegis45]

okay i was looking through all the wires, and then WOW....i forgot to ground the starter!!!
i felt so dumb!!!

but another problem cam up, now gas is leaking from the injector place...

which brings up another question..

are there any kind of rings which to in the injectors or rail or head cuz i had A LOT of them left after the rebuild...


i picture would really be nice, like of what goes b/w the injectors...

Wow you had spare parts left over? thats always a bad thing if you know you didn't buy them as extra's. well the fuel injectors have a grommet and O-Ring but i'm not an expert on this

[stephen_lee]

yeah they have o-rings. both on the fuel rail (top of injectors) and bottom (manifold side)

[Malhar95]

yup it was the "O-ring problem" and thats solved....

but now my engine oil i believe is leaking...my mechanic i gone and will be back in about a week...any suggestions what it could be?
its leaking from behind the timing belt place...

what i think is that its rubber thing which is on the head...it looks like a filler to keep the oil in....i think its suppose to be metal and not rubber b/c my old head has steel..but my mechanic thinks im wrong and it might be the oil pump...


ill get some pics soon...

PS: if somebody is in the houston area, can u please please come over and take a look...maybe its something stupid..i would really appreciate it....i live on the westgreen and fry rd intersection somewhat near i-10 and mason..(next to the fire station)

thank you

[D-Man]

Tranny didn't have a fluid pan, Throttle cables ripped up, Peices missing, Hoses split, EGR incomplete, PS fluid everywhere, Bad Oil smell, Random things grinded/cut off, CV axle boots not secured, Random peices of steel welded between something and nothing, Gaskets leaking, 2 jackoff mechanics involved, a driveway full of standing fluids, wrong fluids in the wrong places, disconected yet standing mechanical and electrical systems, A slew of plugs not pluged into their devices, cut wires, striped wires, Burnt wires, cut and improperly reconnected wires (that were connected to wrong wires) Missing componets, poorly placed aftermarket componets, sensors unlocated (and freehanging) signs of corrosion, Mechanical lines running in the wrong directions, and a partriach in a pair tree...

Oh and that was just the first 60 seconds of our meet n greet. There is indeed moar to this story. I just looked at the surface.

But He does have a verry nice HID setup.

We've alot of work ahead of us bro, But we'll get her up to par.

I'll call ya tommorow, And we'll get that tranny pan as promised. Remind me to compile a list of sh!t you're gunna be needing, and get ready to make a few deals with Alex and Steven, and Anyone else who may have what you need. Otherwise, I'll let you get in on some of my junkyard/"seedy parts shop" hookups.You remember what i told you about those places lol!

Sry 6g, This will not be a small project.

Malhar, i think you need to start a project thread. List every detail as you do it, so we have refference. Pictures are golden. this will help us in the future, as we'll have a history book to refer too. Plus give other members a place to help find your error, Opposed to individual issue thread hoping, and 40 PM explinations stating the same thing over and over.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Aug 21, 2010 - 9:32 PM

[JuMPiiN]

Whew... sounds like my 6th gen when i picked it up the first time. His sounds a bit worse. Hope you have alot of time on your hands the next few weeks.

[stephen_lee]

FYL dude.
ive got a garage full of 2 dead celicas parts.. i may have some stuff for you

[JuMPiiN]

maybe i should take a drive over there and bring some cash. lmfao

[SleekCelica]

Either grounds, or your battery connections/battery itself.

[RavenAegis45]

Tranny didn't have a fluid pan, Throttle cables ripped up, Peices missing, Hoses split, EGR incomplete, PS fluid everywhere, Bad Oil smell, Random things grinded/cut off, CV axle boots not secured, Random peices of steel welded between something and nothing, Gaskets leaking, 2 jackoff mechanics involved, a driveway full of standing fluids, wrong fluids in the wrong places, disconected yet standing mechanical and electrical systems, A slew of plugs not pluged into their devices, cut wires, striped wires, Burnt wires, cut and improperly reconnected wires (that were connected to wrong wires) Missing componets, poorly placed aftermarket componets, sensors unlocated (and freehanging) signs of corrosion, Mechanical lines running in the wrong directions, and a partriach in a pair tree...

Oh and that was just the first 60 seconds of our meet n greet. There is indeed moar to this story. I just looked at the surface.

But He does have a verry nice HID setup.

Haha wow that sucks but I like how you soften the blow by saying something good he has, well best of luck on the restoration, from the sound of things your gonna need it but be glad you have people to support you like D-Man

[Malhar95]

haha yea im pretty much screwed, but i am glad that dman came and took a look at the car...i was gonna buy some useless things to fix it my self but then he came and saved the day

[cyberblader1130]

Sounds like a mess but thankfully there are people on here that are willing to go to such lengths to help another out.
I don't have anyone around here i can rely on to answer my questions so i sit on here and soak up all the info i can get my hands on. I'll take a close look if you start your thread because i will most likely rebuild my 5fse before i turbo it.
Btw, if anyone is in the Appleton area or somewhat close to it that is looking for a car to work on, lemme know. :-P
Good luck with your project!

[RavenAegis45]

haha yea im pretty much screwed, but i am glad that dman came and took a look at the car...i was gonna buy some useless things to fix it my self but then he came and saved the day

haha don't get discouraged, being screwed would be doing it on your own, I would say you just have some work that need done, but definitely start a thread so if anyone else happens to get a car in similar shape to yours, your info will help them out a bit

[stephen_lee]

how it go hommie?