SC or TC., hmmm?? whats you think Options

[5sfeTurbo]

After reading the big topic on celica.net Im almost convinced on the supercharged 5s. "Go with the 3s blah blah blah". NO, anywho the rippmods sounds pretty awesome. Unlike the fabled 3s.. you get all NEW parts and direct plug and play. So if your even contemplating the do a swap reply, in your upper left hand hand corner of your screen is a "Back" button go ahead an press it. SC 5sfe at 190whp out of a box is pretty awesome.

[Andason]

KABOOM! theres your motor with rippmods

stick with the 3s

[5sfeTurbo]

Hahaha.

So ALL thise kids turbocharging or supercharging their STOCK integras,civics,camrys,preludes probes etc etc motors are wasting their time.......no. GET OVER THE F#$@'n SWAP, because its there dosent mean its the BE ALL mod. Im so sick and tired of this site above all with its hardocore wannabe 3s point of view(not you Anadson or the 3 others) but jesus christ there are other modifications out there other than a 3s. You dont see all the Honda owners automatically SWAPPING a H-22 becuase its there. * sighs* (blood pressure lowering) There are so many different mods out there other than the blessed 3s. So when I or some other newbiee wants info dont brain wash him/her into thinking the damn 3s is the ONLY mod worth pursuing because against all non-sense its by far not. Not everything is going to blow........well yea everything in due time will even the 3s will (popular to contrary believe)

Anadson..this wasnt a slander to your reply, your cool in my books.

[5sfeTurbo]

*contrary to popular believe*

This post has been edited by 5sfeTurbo: Nov 24, 2003 - 3:03 AM

[Andason]

yo, the 3s is more stable for higher compression rates then the 5s. That's why the 3s swap is so popular. I've heard REALLY bad things about rippmods. Read hyperdeathkills post about how they run their business. The 5sfe supercharger isnt even proven to fit into a 94-99 celica. I can tell your obviously not all about the 3s swap b/c your name is 5sfe turbo. I thought about turboing my motor, but in the long run the 3s is my best bet.

[5sfeTurbo]

Read the posts on celican.net, dont just trust what someone "said". Its popular by word of mouth not by experience. Given the 3s is built for boost hence the turbo that compliements the motor, why would anyone bother force inducting a N/A car when there are plenty that will last and destroy a 3s but this isn't a 5s v.s. 3s topic.

[Coomer]

[doGGy]

Im with other mod then 3S... All i see is SWAP SWAP SWAP in Engine forums... And i dont get it... A lot of people are puting turbos or SC and they are Riding theyr cars... AND THEY DONT BLOW (offen).. And then i need to find some info on 7A-FTE i always go to c.net... cuz here i just CANT find any info about turboing, or experience on Turboing...

[SiKBOY]

If you want to do some research on the rippmods ST, try a search on the mr2 boards. Ages ago I was reading a lot of interesting stuff on the mr2 boards and issues were brought up with in that community. There are other cars besides the celica that have the 5sfe. On a whole the the mr2.com board is a lot more performance oriented than here or celica.net. You will get a lot of good info on the 5sfe

[BigEdge169]

Also, there's a lot of good info on www.corolla-racing.com
There's a lot of guys on there that have done the 7AFE turbo or other significant mods other than just a swap

[macavely]

i have noticed that most of the people that say do a swap are people that haven't done it.. (strange huh) They say it cheaper to swap, the swap will be better in the long run blah blah blah... yea its not that simple.. just some points to think about


1. when you buy jdm engine you really don't know how many miles it has
2. in someplaces you might not be able to insure your care or pass inspecation
3. the swap might just not work (as john about it)
4. if you think a 3s engine isn't going to blow..think again any engine can
5. ever engine that is built is made to handle about 3 times the power it has from stock...just somthing those crazy car guys do so people don't die every time they start there cars..

[FallenHero]

Try this

http://www.corollaperformance.com/Mods/Engine/7AGE.html

[Kwanza]

[Kwanza]

[97sccelica]

[Kwanza]

[macavely]

i would say go with TC.. my reasons for saying that is you have more freedom with the TC as in doing custom work... do you home work and get all your parts.. grap a friend or two and take one weekend and a few beers and install it...

[FallenHero]

[kuya1284]

OK... here' my take on this whole argument...

First, I personally don't think it's worth upgrading the 7A. But I do support upgrading a 5S. If you do plan on upgrading a 7A, be prepared to spend lots of money rebuilding the internals.

Second, I've never really put anyone down for wanting to upgrade their factory motor. Yes, I always recommended a 3S over anything else, BUT I ALWAYS ask what their ultimate power goals are.

Basically, that's what it boils down to. If you have the funds and wish to attain HIGH OUTPUT from your car, I feel that a 3S swap would be worth it. Needless to say, if you only want to attain about 200 to 300 HP, upgrading your 5S will suffice.

Again, I believe that it boils down to your goal for power gains and how much you are willing to dump (not invest) into your car. Patience is also RECOMMENDED... for both swaps and upgrades. I support a lot of what was said here...

Just my $0.02...

This post has been edited by kuya1284: Nov 25, 2003 - 4:45 AM

[FallenHero]

The 7a isn't that bad,it's not heavy, and not near as weak as people say.

" Engine Block: 7A-FE fitted with oil cooled pistons
Cylinder Head: 4A-GE 20valve head
Pistons: 4A-GZE pistons
Connecting rods: ARGO custom rods with 3/8" ARP bolts
Crankshaft: Standard 7A-FE
Compression Ratio: 8.9:1
Boost pressure: 18psi
Power: 300hp @ 7000 rpm
Turbocharger: Garrett GT25 twin ball bearing, 320hp model
Intercooler: Water-to-air "

This is a far off example, but an example none the less. I put this up to show that a 7a crank can handle 200+hp. I have e-mailed the guy that did it to find out how long it lasted. (hopefully still on the road.)
Now: a 7a with 4agze pistons and custom rods could be had for about a grand I would think. Then throw in the turbocharger and you could have boost around 12-14 and no problems.(properly intercooled.)

That's not bad for power or money, as long as you were only looking for about 250 hp.

I may be off the mark here, but if I am, I'm not too far off.

Jon

[Kwanza]

[FallenHero]

We both have differnt ideas and view points. But sharing ideas and view points is what this web page is all about. Thanks for presenting a counter point

Sadly, I cannot get a hold of the guy that did the 20v swap: ( I am going to contact some people on corrollaperformance though and persue this a little more.


Jon

[Komlofske]

When I was first thinking of Turboing my car I started asking, and exploring around about what people had thaught about it, and as you all know that your first response in most cases are negative and they refer you to the 3sgte and I alsmost decided against it, that is until I spoke to DG_performance. He has a completely differant outlook about it and he explained to me that it's all within rang, much closer than a swap would be. So what I'm saying is, that if you talk to the people that have Turbo, most of the time, love it. If you talk to the people that don't have Turbo, do not like it and they love to throw that ****ing 3sgte **** at you. That sure is getting old. Thanks DG_Performance!!

[FallenHero]

I would rather turbo than swap, but.... DG got greedy and blew his motor or something.

[97GTinKC]

My .02 worth; this rippmods sc kit seems to be very complete, sounds like a true "bolt-on" which 90% of the people on here COULD do themselves,,,
as for needing a 3sgte for reliability, I recall everyone in the 70's and 80's saying you needed a 4-bolt main small-block chevy to get reliable HP. yet there were thousands (if not millions) of standard 2-bolt main blocks built to respectable HP levels with no problems,,, same difference here, SC or TC should be fine if you do it correctly and dont get crazy with boost. which will be fine for 90% of us, the other 10% that MUST have that last extra HP, they should get a 3S,,,
And yes, those Chevys would blow up, 2 -OR 4-bolt mains, if the job wasnt done right or the work was sloppy or they were driven extremely hard...same as any engine would.

[venomviper88]

say you do turbo an 5sfe let's say with 70,000 miles on it what are your chances of blowing up the engine?

[kuya1284]

[venomviper88]

Im not knowledgeable about engines and stuff so I don't know what the boost does but how about enough boost for 200hp what are your chances for the engine blowing up?

thanks for helpin a newb out

[NEVERSTOP]

I have alot of experince with S/C and turbos and swaps... here is my view point on it...

S/C - 2-3k by the time your done.. not sure of the price for S/C setup talked about on this topic

Turbo set up - 1-2k approx

swap - 3-5k depending on prices of all parts and labor costs etc.. closer to 5k for most


Now we all know that I am for the swap but I am gonna take a non bias approach to this.

also keep in mind that I do not know alot about the 7a as I have never had a need to look into it.


3s will get you 200 or so HP stock.. thats with no mods and completely designed by toyota to run how its supposed to.

4a will get you 160-190ish depending on what version.. might be wrong but think that is the acturate hp range at stock and is designed to by toyota etc.

Turbo setup.. works but for how long?? that is an answer that isnt known yet it is still too new but there are alot of potential problems with mix and matching.

S/C setup - see turbo setup.


Now all of these will get you ruffly the same HP range considering that the swaps are still stock and the turbo + S/C setups have all the nessary mods done.


now a S/C will potentially drain the life of the motor.. same with an aftermarket turbo.

my G/F has a S/C civic. and it is on its 3rd motor - all due to the charger.. luckly she hasnt blown one its all been the people that owned it before but I have to do work on that car practiaclly every other weekend just to keep it runing right.

My mom has a bonivelle ssei that is charged and she has also had some problems with it but not neary as much as my G/F or other people I know with aftermarket S/Cers

also keep in mind that saying " it takes power to make power" this is in refrence to S/Cs

what that means is a S/C will give you a 20/30% increase in power.. that really isnt alot for the money you will spend. It also doesnt seem very praticaly on a 115-130hp vehicle. I can understand a 300-400+ vehicle seeing huge gains from a S/C

a turbo setup will yeild better results than a S/C but is more dangerous to your motor.. a N/A motor doesnt really stand up to well to boost... now I have heard that the 7a was originally ment for boost but toyota changed it last min and stuck a different head on the motor.. which I have also heard is the weakness of that motor. The 5a motor is not ment for boost and will see problems over the long term with it. You will also not be able to achive much over 7-8lbs of boost with out a rebuild.

now logic would tell you that a stock motor built for boost between the range of 12-14.. and will safely hold more, is the smarter option in the long run

I understand that the 3s or 4a swap is not for everyone.. and some of you cant do it period due to local laws and if that route you will need to look into other options, but do be advised that you will run into problems down the road with a turbo or s/c set up.

I personally think that the 7a would handle boost better than the 5a and the 5a should be ran as a N/A motor only.. which with enuf money could become a good motor with a decent amount of HP but it will take alot more money than most are willing to spend


now you are all free to do what you like to your cars.. drive them into the river for all I car.. but do be care and look into stuff before you jump in.

[5sfeTurbo]

Neverstop is dead on correct. In my case:

A. I live in MD a swap in general will raise flags.(Turbo/SC as well)
B. I have an auto( a auto to manual swap is out of the question)
C. No one around here(150 mile radius) is near competent enough to this swap.
D. Afraid of the B.S. that comes with aquiring a motor(from the condition too not waiting 6 months+install down time)
E. If something need repair in the 3s(im not mechanically enclined) Toyota i know will charge quiet a bit to repair.
F. Wiring the motor correctly.

I know as much as it SOUNDS Im against the 3s swap its a golden engine that has much potential but it just wasnt desingned to fit in the USDM shells. I wish I could do it and not spend more than 5k but its not possible for my application and thats why im for applying forced induction on my car. I am fully aware of the consequences and repracutions but I believe if it is well planned and thought out and above all installed and tuned correctly it will run for a good while without problems. But me, Im not looking to shatter any records or really boost past 200HP becuase If I was i would just buy a new car that has the potential but I like my car and just want to add a little pepp in her step. A swap is good but like said its not for everyone. Do what you can and do it right.

[Simmo]

Hi all,

I am in the tail end of having a sc fitted to my 3s-gt engine. Just waiting on the tuning of it.

Currently running it in for 1000 miles. Running @ 230 BHP at the moment. Hoping to eek some more out of it after mapping.

Some things to think about if contemplating it are the stock internals will need to be changed/uprated if you want the car to last. You WILL be without the car for several months. The cost is not for the faint hearted and last but not least, GET IT DONE PROPERLY!!!!! There are so many people out there who might think they know what they are doing.... check them out BEFORE you start.

HTH

Simmo

This post has been edited by Simmo: Dec 14, 2003 - 7:14 PM

[97sccelica]

im at 5k miles with my 7afte setup, still going strong and most of the problems have been weeded out. just need a new fuel pump(mines dieing) and a fmic before i go to the dyno.

i recently noticed that one of the exhaust manifold studs on my car is stripped inside the head and that i will never be able to tighten it. my plan is to take all the aftermarket parts off and take it to toyota complaining that exhaust leaks from the head/manifold and let them deal with the problem under warranty.

or i might just take it to a machine shop and have it fixed or do it my self. still not sure.

custom stuff is a pain in the ass, so do a lot of research, and become an in home mechanic before you start saying you want to "Slap on" or "throw on" a turbo charger.

i have been mechanically inclined all my life, and i have worked with one form of an engine or another since i was 4 yrs old.

before you spend a penny on any parts for your car, hit the books.

that is the best advice i can give.

[FallenHero]

any books you would reccomend?

[97sccelica]

[UT_Celica_GT]

The reason I am leaning torwards the swap is cuz my engine now has about ~126k miles on it and at this point, FI would probably not mark a good toll on my engine. I love my car, have spent money on how it looks and like how it looks. So I am planning on doing the 3s swap next summer, old engine will be rolling onto 140k+ miles probably. So instead of buying a new car, I will keep the car and buy a new engine. There is a guy real close to me (10 min) that has done the 3s swap successfully before, and he will be helping me do it, and I will be buying it through him. So I think in my case the swap is the better plan.

[Jabberwock]

ME and my pops buy cars cheap, fix it up a little, and sell it, but I found a celica and felt like keeping it and then found this forum.

The popular choice was doing the 3SGTE swap. I was about to swap a 5SFE into my 7AFE(had over 100000miles, but was in real good shape) but this site helped me decide on the 3SGTE.

Either way I think I would have gone with the swap.

1. Because the front clip already included everything you needed for a turbo and the engine is made for a turbo.

2. The cost of turboing and swapping may have ended up costing almost the same, plus if I was going to turbo I would have had to buy a 7AFE or 5SFE anyways.

3. I wanted to do the GT4 front end and I felt that it needed its partner the GT4 engine even though i got the 2nd gen from stupid toysport..kuso BAKAs. (the ST185 was in great shape though and low mileage.

4. I evantually want to do AWD and the 3SGTE seemed to be the best engine option for that.

5. SWAPPING IS GREAT FOR A PROJECT...hehe it takes so much time and work

6. 3SGTE is capable of high HP especially since its already at 225hp and 225 torque(JDM) VS. the 5SFE or 7AFE which is 135 and 110. Stock 3SGTE can handle up to 300+. But with internal changes and bigger turbo it is possible up to over 700hp. really like that one

7 There aren't too many mechanics in my area who are competent to do the swap, but my mechanic who works for my dad was willing to give it a try and I try to consult this forum and people who have done it for any help. Even if I needed to fix it I think I somehow can find a way to fix it.

8. Smog is a problem, but my dad's shop does smog....

9. It feels like most turbo setups you have to go scavenging...hehe, but the burrien is still an option.

10. THE SWAP IS SO MUCH FUN....EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM SHOULD DO IT. Heh. Just playing, but everyone had the freedom to do what they want.

THERE IS NO POINT IN TRYING TO ARGUE FOR OR AGAINST THE SWAP OR TURBO/SC SETUP. Everyone likes to be different at some point.

I DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO SAY THIS, BUT THIS TOPIC IS GETTING TO BE REAL SIMILAR TO POSTS IN SOME HONDA FORUMS ..tURBO VS. H22, B18C,ETC...

Anyways I just felt like saying that and I think some of the guys who are more for the turbo may b**** at me, but I think they have the freedom to choose to like the turbo setup more.