6th Gen Celica Rally Car AWD Build, Rebuilding after the roll..... Options

[czwalga]

I just bought a 95 celica GT liftback for the sole purpose of rally racing. I'm building it to meet Rally America and NASA specs.



I'm scrolling through reading as much as I can about the car, but any opinions on weak areas on this car would be appreciated; as in stresses a rally car might really effect. I will be welding as many seems as I can find, at minimum 6 point cage, but i'll probably make it 8 as i plan on going through the firewall to the front strut towers. Basically just reinforcing anything I can. My goal is to compete in blackriver stages next september.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 6, 2012 - 7:31 AM

[mkernz22]

Welcome to the forum!
Good Luck with the build man! That is going to be a project in a half!
Engine wise, go with a 2nd or 3rd Gen 3sgte engine. You can get a 3rd Gen 3sgte from _Jim_ at a decent price!
Also, are you looking to do the AWD conversion?

[czwalga]

Welcome to the forum!
Good Luck with the build man! That is going to be a project in a half!
Engine wise, go with a 2nd or 3rd Gen 3sgte engine. You can get a 3rd Gen 3sgte from _Jim_ at a decent price!
Also, are you looking to do the AWD conversion?

Thanks! For the first year i'm not looking to upgrade the engine or do AWD. I made that mistake with my rx7. I built my rx7 to road race with only having minimum road racing experience. I built a car that I can't even track because well its basically too god damn scary for my driving skills. So that car just now turned into a drag/street car.

Like I said I learned my lesson and am starting small with this build!

[Tigawoods]

i knew i recognized the 7!
i was on pittspeed looking for nice cars to shoot and yours came up.
never got the chance to contact you about it, might have to set something up
good to have you here
who lead you to a celica?

[Johnnyny]

a good rear strut brace will go a long way

[stl95celica]

You should also try an hit the 100 Acre Wood rally in Salem, MO. I went last year for the first time and it made me a huge fan now. it would be sweet to see a celica compete.

Whats the engine class do you plan on competing in?

[czwalga]

i knew i recognized the 7!
i was on pittspeed looking for nice cars to shoot and yours came up.
never got the chance to contact you about it, might have to set something up
good to have you here
who lead you to a celica?

Basically I was looking for something cheap, semi sporty looking, FWD. I really don't like FWD, but they say it's the easiest to learn to rally on. So I can start with this then who knows maybe get crazy. After the rx7 i'm not opposed to any type of extreme one-off mods, maybe awd v8 haha.

The cars I was looking at were preludes, celicas, was considering a 1st gen rx7 for a bit, 240sx.

[DEATH]

the 6th Gen Celica was designed specifically FOR the World Ralley Cup so you are alot of the way there. That being said, you got the watered down USDM version so you got a lot of work to do.
In the end the Celica GT4 is still a world class ralley car that can hang with the best of them [properly setup, of course] Evo's, STI's etc
I'd start by Youtube'ing some races [keywords: Celica rally ST205 ST185 ST165]
good luck and take lots of vids to load here on this site [to pay us back for all the help ]

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 28, 2010 - 11:45 AM

[richee3]

Contact windowlicker. He's a member on here who rallies his Celica. He's not on that often anymore but I'm sure he'd respond to a PM.

[BonzaiCelica]

yes I always to talk to windowlicker, you should see his car in person its so beat up from all the rally he does down here in California. He tells me that he does pretty good considering he has stock suspension and its an auto st. so its way underpowered and auto but he does pretty damn good out there from what he's told me. shoot him a pm he'll surely respond to you.

[czwalga]

Cool Ill have to PM him.


Does he do actual rally events or rally cross, there's a big difference in specs you have to meet.

[BonzaiCelica]

Cool Ill have to PM him.


Does he do actual rally events or rally cross, there's a big difference in specs you have to meet.

I believe its rally autocross its out in the middle of the dessert. check out his posts so you can see his pics and stuff of him taking turns and what not.

[Tigawoods]

he does rallycross.
rally is a whole different ball game.

[Coomer]

Welcome! Looking forward to watching your rally car build.

[windowlicker]

my ears were burning cause someone was talking about me..lol

good to see another person on here getting interested in rally with their celica. the best thing to do would be to start with reading the hell out of the rally america/rally car rule books. rally america is changing over to the name rally car, but i'm pretty sure that the rules are not going to change much in the way of what you will need to do with the cage. i think you're also gonna be stuck with what ever engine you currently have as you will need to build up your coefficents (kinda like your racing licenses) in order to move up to faster cars. they don't just let you build a fast unlimited awd car without knowing you can drive it and not kill yourself and others. personally, i am a huge advocate of starting off in a slow car, learning better techniques, then moving up with power after you've learned as much as you can in a slow car.

there are a couple really good websites that you will be able to ask more questions pertaining to rally orientated stuff. the first one is specialstage.com and its mainly stage rally guys on there, but its got a lot of good info. the other is a site i frequent a lot and its got a lot of info on a lot of various types of rally orientated things and its called dirtyimpreza.com don't be scared away because it at first look seems like a subaru only site, because there are quite a few of us that don't have subaru's, but we go on there for info on racing, find events that are local to you, and there are some good vendors for rally related stuff on there.

i strongly urge that if there is a rallyx event in your area, get out there and get some seat time. the more seat time and in a "race" setting you get, the better. a lot of the guys out here that run stage rally are also big into rallyx because it allows them to get the practice they need on some technical driving skills in between stage rallies. for me, its the only economical rally events that i can afford to compete in at the moment with my celica. i also really enjoy it as well and the car does pretty decent. i was really surprised with it the first rallyx i drove in and have been really happy with the car ever since (i'm about to finish 2 full seasons of rallyx with the celica). the thing i really like with the car is that it rotates well in the dirt with left foot braking. i never really cared much for left foot braking on pavement, but on dirt, its amazing how well the car will turn when timed out right. also having a slower car is kinda nice because there are a lot of times when i just keep the throttle pinned and don't really need to lift at all.

if you have more questions, feel free to ask.

[czwalga]

my ears were burning cause someone was talking about me..lol

good to see another person on here getting interested in rally with their celica. the best thing to do would be to start with reading the hell out of the rally america/rally car rule books. rally america is changing over to the name rally car, but i'm pretty sure that the rules are not going to change much in the way of what you will need to do with the cage. i think you're also gonna be stuck with what ever engine you currently have as you will need to build up your coefficents (kinda like your racing licenses) in order to move up to faster cars. they don't just let you build a fast unlimited awd car without knowing you can drive it and not kill yourself and others. personally, i am a huge advocate of starting off in a slow car, learning better techniques, then moving up with power after you've learned as much as you can in a slow car.

there are a couple really good websites that you will be able to ask more questions pertaining to rally orientated stuff. the first one is specialstage.com and its mainly stage rally guys on there, but its got a lot of good info. the other is a site i frequent a lot and its got a lot of info on a lot of various types of rally orientated things and its called dirtyimpreza.com don't be scared away because it at first look seems like a subaru only site, because there are quite a few of us that don't have subaru's, but we go on there for info on racing, find events that are local to you, and there are some good vendors for rally related stuff on there.

i strongly urge that if there is a rallyx event in your area, get out there and get some seat time. the more seat time and in a "race" setting you get, the better. a lot of the guys out here that run stage rally are also big into rallyx because it allows them to get the practice they need on some technical driving skills in between stage rallies. for me, its the only economical rally events that i can afford to compete in at the moment with my celica. i also really enjoy it as well and the car does pretty decent. i was really surprised with it the first rallyx i drove in and have been really happy with the car ever since (i'm about to finish 2 full seasons of rallyx with the celica). the thing i really like with the car is that it rotates well in the dirt with left foot braking. i never really cared much for left foot braking on pavement, but on dirt, its amazing how well the car will turn when timed out right. also having a slower car is kinda nice because there are a lot of times when i just keep the throttle pinned and don't really need to lift at all.

if you have more questions, feel free to ask.

How has the car held up over the last 2 years? Any weak points on the stock suspension? I'm going to try and make a rallyx before I definatly want to however the only place that was semi-close shut down over the summer.

I completely agree about starting small, i'm not doing anything to the engine atleast for a while. Like I said I learned my lesson with the rx7, built to road race, waaaay to fast to road race for my driving skills. Now its just a drag/street car.


Anyways the one good thing is i'm not going in blind. One of my friends convinced me to do rally instead of build another road race car (one that I could actually drive). He has a 90's CRX. I really dont like CRX's but this one is pretty cool. Built to meet RA and NASA specs.

[windowlicker]

the car has held up really well for the beating i give it and having 210,000 miles. everything i've replaced has been stuff you would normally replace on a 210,000 mile car, so its not like doing rallyx is killing the car. here's what i've replaced so far:
driver side axle
driver side wheel bearings three times (2 of the times they were cheap autozone bearings, now it has new toyota bearings on both sides)
front and rear motor mounts and trans mount
driver side ball joints twice (first was autozone POS ball joint, now has new toyota ball joints on both sides)
exhaust manifold (original 7afe manifolds are prone to crack over time)
windshield (severely cracked when bought from the previous owner)
power steering pump
the three exterior engine belts (power steering, alternator, and a/c belts)
spark plugs and spark plug wires
distributor cap and rotor

other than that, i've just done the routine oil changes and keeping an eye on things. like i said, a lot of the stuff i changed out were parts that originally came on the car back in 1996, so they would have needed to be changed anyways. i'm looking to swap over to a manual trans and i'm debating if i want to do a rebuild on the engine or just do a timing belt and water pump, and a rear main seal when i swap out the trans.

there are some nice things about the car, its really easy to work on by yourself. i love how easy it is to change out the whole steering knuckle assembly and especially that the ball joints are bolt in vs press in. anything that doesn't require a shop press is good in my book.

i would recommend getting a good skid plate custom made, as i sometimes worry about punching a hole in either the engine oil pan or the trans pan. i'm working on getting a better one on my car, but i have a ghetto fabbed skid plate that i made out of a benz clk 63 hood. works, but i need to find some better mounting points since i ripped the plate off in a rallyx.

This post has been edited by windowlicker: Sep 29, 2010 - 1:30 PM

[czwalga]

That's not bad at all...basic stuff. That is nice about the bolt in ball joints as well. I have a 20-ton press, but i'd much rather prefer the bolt in method.


Good call on the skid plate i'll probably build a skid plate for it. I dont like paying anyone to do anything



I pick the car up tomorrow, so I'll try to do a continuous build thread for it with pics.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Sep 30, 2010 - 8:22 AM

[Tigawoods]

where are you around pittsburgh?

[windowlicker]

cool, look forward to seeing what you do with the car.

[czwalga]

Picked up the car today. I'm going to start gutting it tomorrow. If anybody needs some interior plastics/sunroof/seats let me know i'll be parting the interior out. Most of the plastic is in decent shape but I'll have a for sale thread and post better pics if anyones interested just a fyi for now.

Not bad for $650. Runs good. Shopped around for about 3-4 weeks before I found this, 6 hour drive but it was worth it.










This post has been edited by czwalga: Oct 1, 2010 - 3:48 PM

[tony55343]

nice looks like a damn good buy for 650. keep us updated on the progress man!!

[presure2]

looks to be in good shape for the price!
good luck!

[czwalga]

The car's finally gutted. Engine should be coming out tomorrow. Any suggestions? Dropping it through the bottom or pulling it up. I havent decided yet what I want to do.

Found a decent oil leak once I pulled it in the garage. Looks like it's coming from the front timing cover/oil pan. Shouldnt be a big deal. Ill probably replace all the gaskets along with the timing belt anyway.


I used dry ice to remove all of the sound deadening. The stuff is a nightmare to remove, but if you get dry ice and let it sit for 10 min. You can get a sledge and it just comes off in giant chunks. Pick up the big chunks, then you can vacuum up all the small pieces after the ice evaporates.

[4-eyed-freek]

drop it down from underneath.. its a bit easier that way with a fwd engine transverce mounted

[presure2]

not in a celica.
15-16 chain links on the drivers side hook, 5 or so on the passangers side, drop the tranny down, and lift the engine and tranny together.
you have to drop the suspension crossmember to drop it out the bottom, way more work than needed that way.

[czwalga]

not in a celica.
15-16 chain links on the drivers side hook, 5 or so on the passangers side, drop the tranny down, and lift the engine and tranny together.
you have to drop the suspension crossmember to drop it out the bottom, way more work than needed that way.

Yeah, I was looking at it, seems like it still might be easier to come out the top. I have a leveler so I can just adjust as necessary.


I got the wiring harness off today, man that thing was a pain the ass to get off... wound around everything. I'll probably wait to pull the engine next weekend.

[presure2]

yea, you dont have to remove it to remove the engine, just pull it out of the fuse box in the engine bay, and thru the boot in the firewall, and lay it on the engine while you pull it.
depending on how much angle you can get on the leveler, you may or may not be able to get enough angle on the engine set.
i couldnt get enough angle with my brother in law's back in the day, so i went to using the chain as described above.

[lagos]

Do the chain like Pressure2 said and put a floor jack under the tranny. Then you can control how slowly you let the motor tilt with the tranny jack.

This post has been edited by lagos: Oct 11, 2010 - 7:08 AM

[czwalga]

Thanks guys.


I already pulled the harness off. I guess it would have been easier to remove outside of the car... but I plan on pulling the head off to change the head gasket anyways so it had to come off sometime.

Not doing anything to the engine, I am replacing all the gaskets and seals. It's going to take a lot of abuse at high RPM so I'd rather just replace the stuff now then have it go bad out on the course. Like I said I think the front oil seal is leaking already.


I'm assuming the head bolts are torque to yield and will need replaced?

This post has been edited by czwalga: Oct 11, 2010 - 8:31 AM

[tony55343]

yup they will need to be replaced.

[czwalga]

Progress has been slow... I havent been working on it during the week days since the project i'm working on is behind and we're on mandatory 10 hour days.

Anyways, Got the engine pulled, I ran 220v to the garage where i'm working on this car, Wasn't going to weld the gauge with the 110v welder. Also got the tube bender bolted to the floor. I got a killer deal on my tube. I paid $1.50 a foot for 1.75 and 1.50" DOM. One of my dads buddies is a salesmen for a big steel company, they normally dont sell to the public just large jobs. I was quoted around $7 a foot from most other places.


Got the drivers seat mounted, it's fia homologated. Choices for seats is pretty limited, especially depending on your size, also expensive. This was a low end fia seat and it was 150$ more than my corbeau seats in the rx7 which are much much nicer. Obviously wouldnt pass tech though.


Also started the mounting feet for the cage. I plan on cutting the roof off, instead of cutting holes in the floor and dropping it down. I'm a much better welder when I have room/space.

[Tigawoods]

ill have to come see this sometime

[windowlicker]

looking good. keep posting progress pics.

[czwalga]

ill have to come see this sometime

Itll be much better to look at when its done haha I promise.



Have you been out to millerstown pic-a-part? Just curious if its worth the drive out there for random celica parts I might need.

[czwalga]

Reinforced the strut towers to handle the abuse. Started the cage. Just got the main hoop done, but I wanted to make sure it was super tight to the body so I took a lot of time drawing it out on the floor and I made a template after my calculations to make sure it would fit perfectly.















This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 8, 2010 - 10:00 PM

[chacha]

lookin good...be details on the mounting and what must be done to achieve a good rally car...i plan to put roll cage too, but i might as well learn from you first. at which point you put the bar and why that location as far for details please.

[czwalga]

lookin good...be details on the mounting and what must be done to achieve a good rally car...i plan to put roll cage too, but i might as well learn from you first. at which point you put the bar and why that location as far for details please.

Well, rally car is all about suspension. I'm strengthening all the strut towers because they take a ton of abuse when you're coming down from the air.



As far as putting the roll cage, you need to buy a bender + dies. I have a JD2 bender, with the bender, stand, dies, its about $900. The tube is around $7 a foot; I bought 120 feet. Fortunately for me, I know someone that had extra DOM laying around from a huge steel company and I got it for 1.50 a foot.


Building the cage itself... you have to build to whatever you plan on racing. Rally America and NHRA specs are completely different. My Rx7 cage was just a basicaly 4 point halo, plus removable door bars. This was just so I could run under 11.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile without being thrown out of the track. I probably only have 25 feet of tubing into it.


If you dont plan on racing in anything specific, I either wouldnt bother putting a cage in or just doing a basic roll bar.


Rx7 simple roll bar...







Vs.... something like this is what the rally cage will be...




This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 10, 2010 - 2:52 PM

[presure2]

looks great so far man!

[czwalga]

I'll have some pics this week... got the entire middle of the body stitchwelded, removing all the seam sealer sucks. Front strut towers done, main hoop and half laterals welded in. After 4 revisions I finally have the drivers seat mounts done. I end up having to notch the frame rail and plate it to get it to fit where I need. Being tall sucks sometimes.



Anyways, the point of this post... i happend to purchase GT4 AWD stuff. I'm not worried about doing the actual swap it will be a cakewalk, but I do not want to run AWD my first year. I want to stick to 2WD to get my feet wet.

So my question is... can I install the the AWD transmission, leave the driveshaft off and just run the FWD axles. This way I dont have to purchase a differential/new axles/clutch for a transmission that will maybe see 3 race weekends.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 29, 2010 - 8:47 AM

[mkernz22]

Ehhh, I'm not sure if that would be in the best interest to use the AWD tranny and leave the driveshaft off.

To answer your question yes you could do it though.

[Culpable04]

your trans will blow in the middle of first race, the transfer cage of these trans is deising to split power 50 /50 front / rear, with no resistance on the rear it'll put extra stress on the transfer cage overheating it till it goes Boom !, if you really wanna stay FWD for now, your best bet is to use the stock gt trans ( S54 ) or source an MR2 turbo LSD trans for the very best FWD combo.

[czwalga]

your trans will blow in the middle of first race, the transfer cage of these trans is deising to split power 50 /50 front / rear, with no resistance on the rear it'll put extra stress on the transfer cage overheating it till it goes Boom !, if you really wanna stay FWD for now, your best bet is to use the stock gt trans ( S54 ) or source an MR2 turbo LSD trans for the very best FWD combo.

Damn thanks for the info... Now i'm not sure what I want to do. I really do not want to buy a new clutch/axles/diff for the S54 transmission only to sell them a year from now. Maybe ill be moving to AWD way sooner than I expected. As long as it not turbo'd i'm still allowed to compete in the Open Light class, but i'm not allowed to compete in Open Heavy until I get enough driving points.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 29, 2010 - 12:59 PM

[czwalga]

Once I finish the damn seat brackets i'll be able to rip through the rest of the cage, the hardest part is done.


Reinforced front strut tower.



Other Strut tower, hole cut in the firewall to attach the front strut tower to the cage.



Start of the driver seat brackets. I honestly have more time into this seat brackets than anything else. It's a nightmare trying to get the seat in the right position so i'm not cracking my head off the half lateral, while still being at right distance from the steering wheel. I end up having to notch the frame and plate it. I'll clean it up and reinforce it better.



Stitch welding the body. I've done this everywhere on the car that has spot welds. (Havent done the engine bay yet) It's a sucks trying to remove all the seam sealer though.



Half Laterals of the cage, I made it as tight to the body as I could.




This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:20 PM

[easternpiro1]

wow man! great progress! and stevenson, thanks for that! i always wondered why people didnt just block off the rear part of the AWD tranny!

[blu94gt]

When I'm done with school I want to do the same thing with a Subaru or Mitsu, I love rally! Looks great!

[epocsirhc]

Awesome build! I love to see people do everything in house not buying a "kit". I would love to rally someday, but I am hooked on asphalt(road racing) currently. I don't mean to distract from the celica build, but do you have a link to your rx7 build or some pictures? Anyways I can't wait to see the rest of this!

[czwalga]

Awesome build! I love to see people do everything in house not buying a "kit". I would love to rally someday, but I am hooked on asphalt(road racing) currently. I don't mean to distract from the celica build, but do you have a link to your rx7 build or some pictures? Anyways I can't wait to see the rest of this!

Thanks, yeah I do; it's on another forum that I think you need to be a member at to view; i'll just copy it here, lots of pictures.


All I have to do is change the valve springs and exhaust housing on the turbo and I should be putting out close to 850rwhp in the spring.



Day I bought it:



Cutting the fenders to make wider ones:


My favorite picture... stock vs. new.


Molded Fenders:




After the first year. 450rwhp, just ported heads and cam. Stock Block








Last years winter project, Viper Rear, new shortblock/fuel system, 76mm Turbo.


Headers I made:



New built shortblock:


Differential out of a 2000 Viper, Custom driveshaft shop axles.









This post has been edited by czwalga: Dec 8, 2010 - 7:06 PM

[mkernz22]

[playr158]

hot damn

[mmmchocolate]

seriously.

this is pure sex. i love this. <3

[richee3]

this is pure sex. i love this. <3

I hope you were referring to the car, not the dog...

If the Celica gets 1/3 of the attention that your RX7 does, then I have no doubt that we're in the beginning of a great thread.

[mkernz22]

this is pure sex. i love this. <3

I hope you were referring to the car, not the dog...

lmao

I don't get why he said "seriously." though.
I just think the car is jaw dropping.

[czwalga]

Thanks for the compliments guys.



Hopefully ill be able to get some work done on the celica at some point. My project at works in major crunch time, worked 12 hours yesterday and they want me to differ my two weeks vacation over christmas for atleast a month. I was planning on getting a ton of work done over that time.

[czwalga]

Well, I have off this week. Finally have some time to work on the car.


I cut the roof because where I mounted the cage it would have been a pain in the ass to drop the cage through the floor to complete the upper welds. Honestly it will be easy to weld back into place; grind/sand it down, little bondo and you'll never know i chopped it off.


I'm going to have to cut the entire cowl area out because when I cut through the firewall for the tube that attaches to the front strut towers. Well I'm dumb and realized water will be flowing through here when it rains and will now leak into the car. So i'll have to fix this somehow.

[czwalga]

Anyone know where to buy the roof vent cover that was on the WRC rally cars? Not finding it anywhere. Probably going to have to make my own out of fiberglass...

This post has been edited by czwalga: Dec 27, 2010 - 10:26 PM

[sips]

I like your style. I have an FD and a GT4 Celica too.

I know what you're talking about tracking the FD. I'm on my 2nd FD tracking mine (time attack) after putting it into a barrier during nationals 2009. I found it a potent car at 260WHP finishing 2nd overall in the region for 2010. I can only imagine 550WHP with a V8. It would be scary.

I dabbled in rally-x but you know that scary feeling when you can't control your slide on the track, well rally-x is like that but the feeling never goes away.

[3WayStunna]

I think you should check out this thread on gt4oc....yea you have to register ( and pay club fees ) but it would be a worthwhile investment nonetheless!!

http://www.gt4oc.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=114205

and in case you dont want to register, there is a guy over in the UK prototyping these for commercial use "someday soon". But in his plight, someone was kind enough to post up some TTE diagrams of the roof scoop used on the rally cars...



Hope this helps you in case you decide to follow his route and make your own, or to just wait and buy one from him...but from this thread i think its obvious what you might do.....

[illneversellmyce...]

amazing im saving this thread for sure. i swear you have read my mind on my ideals. I can finally start up again this summer. I had to take a year break due to a layoff and moving to florida. Im back on my feet now and ready to progress. My celica is a shell and I was prepping for the roll cage. Thanks for being an inspiration:-)

[czwalga]

Thanks for the pic.


I've found a place to buy the vent, not cheap by any means. Not sure what im going to do. I'd spend the money if i knew it would work correctly, but its pretty raw. You only get the fiber glass and the aluminum handle.

[czwalga]

Nothing major this weekend. I was a worthless. The rest of the cage is done, but the door bars are not welded in because the door bars make it a pain in the ass to work in. Oh, except the harness bar and a few cross supports.


Relocated the blower and built ducting to keep it functional. Defog is very important in a rally car. The blower had to moved because the connection to the front strut towers.









Blower relocated. Welding very thin metal is a pain in the ass. Welding 1/8"+ is cake, thing stuff is a real pain in the ass, so easy to blow through.

Everything is compression fit plastic, so making this ducting to fit perfectly as a painful process, but it's finally done.

[presure2]

nice ductwork!!

[playr158]

why keep the AC?!

[czwalga]

nice ductwork!!

Thanks welds kinda look like garbage but itll do.

why keep the AC?!

The A/C is gone. Had to remove the A/C core, then move the blower over to the left, this required making new ducting for the vent outside and the vent to the heater core. THe blower had to be moved to accommodate the tube attaching to the front strut towers.

[playr158]

so you plan on keeping it for just heat?

I just tossed it all together.. weight sucks, that and mine is built for the road track.

This post has been edited by playr158: Jan 10, 2011 - 12:15 AM

[czwalga]

so you plan on keeping it for just heat?

I just tossed it all together.. weight sucks, that and mine is built for the road track.

Defog is very important for rally... Hours in the car, can't see, can't drive.


The Rx7, i just tossed everything. Still wish I had defog sometimes when I drive it. Annoying trying to drive and wipe your windshield at the same time. If I just wanted heat I wouldnt have had to make the 2nd duct. The duct that goes up to the top of the cowl is for the defog. Sucks air from outside of the car.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 10, 2011 - 8:34 AM

[presure2]

nice ductwork!!

Thanks welds kinda look like garbage but itll do.

why keep the AC?!

The A/C is gone. Had to remove the A/C core, then move the blower over to the left, this required making new ducting for the vent outside and the vent to the heater core. THe blower had to be moved to accommodate the tube attaching to the front strut towers.

yea, weldin up that thin stuff is tricky when your used to thicker material!
who cares how it looks, function pwns you!

[czwalga]

How long do you think it would take to do the AWD swap. I'm really at a loss as to what I want to do. Spend the money for a Kaaz $1k, for essentially 4 races. Run an open diff which I really dont want to do for the first summer. I was trying to find a cheap MR-S for 300'ish, but they are no where to be found.


The problem is, I ordered the tranny/awd parts from jim, who has really been dicking me around. It was supposed to ship in november... now supposively it shipped this saturday which I'm skeptical because according to the track time on the website it would be here today.

Say I get the parts though... I wonder how much work is involved. I have the GT4 gas tank. Installing the tranny really wouldnt be any difference. I'd have to fab up mounts to bolt the subframe. I dunno....I want the car drivable by mid/end april.



Any thoughts.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 18, 2011 - 8:34 AM

[Culpable04]

with your welding skills I don't think that's an unrealistic goal date. just bolt everything possible ( struts, driveshaft ) and connect them to the subframe, this will give you the template of what you need to bolt the subframe to the chassis, take measurements, double check them and take everything out the way, build the brackets and come back to bolt things up.

There is no wiring needed other than extending the fuel pump wiring, other than that, everything is mechanical, so once brackets are made, is a matter of bolting things on, and by looking at your welding and fabricating skills you have everything needed to complete this flawlessly.

[czwalga]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!



Speak of the devil, I just got a call from R&L the parts are being delivered tomorrow. I knew jim wasn't trying to screw me, but the date has really set me back...


Maybe this weekend I'll size everything up see what i'm up against.

[mkernz22]

search for jmeyer's thread, he did an awd swap on his car.
here's his selling thread for the rear end brackets: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...8&hl=jmeyer

[czwalga]

He's unresponsive...besides $1k for those parts is ridiculous. He fabbed them and can sell them for what he want's but for a 'weld in solution' it's not worth it in my opinion. $50 bucks in steel, maybe a little more. I already have a 2x4 sheet of 1/4" anyway and a GT4 gas tank.



Do you need the GT4 shifter cables for the e154f tranny? I got all the parts today..... except the transmission was forgot. So i'm hopeful I get that by next weekend.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 19, 2011 - 1:56 PM

[Culpable04]

yes ST205 cables are needed.

[czwalga]

Stupid question guys.


Do the GT4's have the same spare tire wells. From the cars i've seen I think they do, but I have no idea how the gas tank fits under there... I have the gt4 gas tank; i've yet to size it up just because I just took the new one out tonight.

I have no problems cutting the spare well out, but just curious.

[mkernz22]

I'm not completely sure about the GT4, but the cars overseas have a full spare instead of a donut spare like in the US.

[czwalga]

So has anyone actually installed a GT4 gas tank in one of these cars. I'm pretty sure it just doesnt fit right in.


I'm not worried, but from what I read it would fit right in and i'd have to fab some mounts for it.

[czwalga]

So yeah, zero percent chance this sucker fits without cutting the spare tire well out.


This is mine.




Here's a GT4's

[mkernz22]

I believe the GT4's have a shallower, but larger area for the spare. So looking at it from the inside of the car, the US GT's spare will sit flush with the floor whereas the GT-4's spare will not sit flush with the floor.

Edit: and it's offset to the right (looking at it from the rear) to accommodate for the full pump area

This post has been edited by mkernz22: Jan 20, 2011 - 8:19 PM

[czwalga]

No worries as of yet, i like cutting stuff. Wheel well will be next.


Tonight when i was removing the old tank I clipped the fuel lines, and cut the exhaust out just because i'd rather do that and fix it later than deal with rusty bolts/fittings.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 20, 2011 - 8:33 PM

[enderswift]

I am really enjoying this thread. I can only take so many body kit write ups haha. Keep up the good work and please be as detailed as possible on the whole process of adapting a usdm rear end to accept awd components please!

[Neon90424]

Stupid question guys.


Do the GT4's have the same spare tire wells. From the cars i've seen I think they do, but I have no idea how the gas tank fits under there... I have the gt4 gas tank; i've yet to size it up just because I just took the new one out tonight.

I have no problems cutting the spare well out, but just curious.

My GT Four came with a stupid yellow steelie motorcycle tire spare. It has 2 plugs in it that when drained drain over the gas tank...

It's stupid because It isnt flush with the floor the carpet is retarded like hiding a boner and If you remove the spare the cardboard cover just falls inside the stupid hole.

Could I suggest mounting the fuel tank inside the trunk? I have had the idea of mounting 10 gallon square fuel cells in the trunk for a GT4 Race car...ofcourse I am a long ways from that...


The spare might be different from USDM celica because of the GT Four massive brake calipers...My old 2000+ Celica steelies would not fit the GT4 because of the brakes. The GT4 steelie has an odd shape to fit around the brakes and is 17" instead of regular 15"

This post has been edited by Neon90424: Jan 20, 2011 - 10:33 PM

[czwalga]

I am really enjoying this thread. I can only take so many body kit write ups haha. Keep up the good work and please be as detailed as possible on the whole process of adapting a usdm rear end to accept awd components please!

Thanks, I'll try; it seems pretty easy to me, but I have experience with my rx7 when I put the viper rear end in it. There's only one angle you really need to be concerned about. Start with the transmission and work your way back keeping the driveshaft level. Build your mounts based off of that angle of the transmission output shaft.

There's some debate from what i've read at what to set the pinion angle on an IRS. 0 or 1 degree, they say 1 degree to keep the u-joints lubricated properly. I shoot for 0 though. All you need is one of these, provided you can weld.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_0...mp;blockType=G2

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 21, 2011 - 7:26 AM

[czwalga]

Stupid question guys.


Do the GT4's have the same spare tire wells. From the cars i've seen I think they do, but I have no idea how the gas tank fits under there... I have the gt4 gas tank; i've yet to size it up just because I just took the new one out tonight.

I have no problems cutting the spare well out, but just curious.

My GT Four came with a stupid yellow steelie motorcycle tire spare. It has 2 plugs in it that when drained drain over the gas tank...

It's stupid because It isnt flush with the floor the carpet is retarded like hiding a boner and If you remove the spare the cardboard cover just falls inside the stupid hole.

Could I suggest mounting the fuel tank inside the trunk? I have had the idea of mounting 10 gallon square fuel cells in the trunk for a GT4 Race car...ofcourse I am a long ways from that...The spare might be different from USDM celica because of the GT Four massive brake calipers...My old 2000+ Celica steelies would not fit the GT4 because of the brakes. The GT4 steelie has an odd shape to fit around the brakes and is 17" instead of regular 15"

Not a bad thought but Rally America is really strict on mounting of fuel cells. The cheapest 'approved' 12+ gallon fuel cell is around $500 + shipping. On top of that there needs to be a metal barrier between the 'open air' and the fuel cell.

If you have a coupe, you could just plate the area behind where the rear seats were. Since I have a hatch, that's pretty much impossible. I'd have to make a giant metal sealed box for the fuel cell to fit in. Thats why I went with the GT4 gas tank.


Doesn't suprise me that even a small donut sticks up, even if the well was shifted into the right location there's no way the tank would fit in properly since its much deeper in the GTs.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 21, 2011 - 7:23 AM

[delusionz]

Could I suggest mounting the fuel tank inside the trunk? I have had the idea of mounting 10 gallon square fuel cells in the trunk for a GT4 Race car...ofcourse I am a long ways from that...

Having your fuel that high up wouldn't be very good for handling and control. its bad enough it has to be behind the rear axel, let alone raising the centre of gravity.

[czwalga]

Well after cutting the spare tire well out, and a little notch in the wheel well I got the tank to fit. However i'm not comfortable with how low it sits for a rally car. On top of a skid plate would be even lower.

It would be fine for the street, but for my own piece of mind i'm not installing it.


The GT4 gas tank is for sale in the classifieds. I threw it on ebay but if someone wants to work it out a deal I can end the auction early.

[czwalga]

I'm rebuilding the engine and waiting for my E154f awd tranny to arrive so i can get started on the mounts. So i dont have that much right now thats picture worthy.

I did the door gussets, and I started making an aluminum dash. It's completely unnecessary but I had a 2x4' piece of aluminum from my rx7 that I never end up using, so i figured i'd give this a shot. Have to make it in 2 parts though otherwise i'd never be able to get it out with a windshield and a cage.


Made a template out of construction paper, cut the metal out. Tacked the one side then bent it around.








Start of the dash, still have lots to do.

[mak5603]

Nice cage man, liking the gussets.

[bccentaur3]

Why dont ya get fancy and dimple die your gussets?

[czwalga]

Why dont ya get fancy and dimple die your gussets?

Well a decent dimple die set is $200 plus. I do have a press already but still, no need to spend the money.

On top of that the dimples add rigidity for flexing and compression, however the point of the gussets on the door bars would be put into tension in which case a dimple die gusset would be weaker for this application in my opinion.

[96stgreendemon]

This is a truely impressive thread, my hat is off to you sir.
Also what do you plan to do with the door panels? are you just doing a sheet of aluminium over them or what? ive been thinking of doing something similar myself

[czwalga]

This is a truely impressive thread, my hat is off to you sir.
Also what do you plan to do with the door panels? are you just doing a sheet of aluminium over them or what? ive been thinking of doing something similar myself

Honestly I dont know yet. Itll be one of the last things I worry about. I do have to cover them according to the rules. Aluminum to cover them wouldnt be the cheapest solution unless its really thin. I'm pretty sure the stock panels will fit even with the roll cage but would probably look out of place.

[presure2]

how thick is the gusset material?
it may be the pics, but it looks really thin?

[czwalga]

how thick is the gusset material?
it may be the pics, but it looks really thin?

16 gauge which is actually thicker than required. I think 18 gauge is the minimum.

They used to allow just thick flat piece of steel 1/8"+ in the center. But FIA changed requirements to the taco shell type even with thinner metal. Apparently the have some crash testing knowledge that it is better.

[presure2]

how thick is the gusset material?
it may be the pics, but it looks really thin?

16 gauge which is actually thicker than required. I think 18 gauge is the minimum.

They used to allow just thick flat piece of steel 1/8"+ in the center. But FIA changed requirements to the taco shell type even with thinner metal. Apparently the have some crash testing knowledge that it is better.

ahh cool, definetly thicker than i was thinking then.
lovin the progress man, keep it up!

[bccentaur3]

Any reason why the main hoop is pretty far back? I have always wondered on how they completely weld around the tubing that attaches to the front strut tower going through the firewall.

[czwalga]

Any reason why the main hoop is pretty far back? I have always wondered on how they completely weld around the tubing that attaches to the front strut tower going through the firewall.

Well i'm 6'2'' my codriver is 6'2''. With a helmet and tube across the roof that's the angle/distance the seat needed to be.


First thing you do before you build a cage is mount your seats and build around. The back of the seat is probably an inch or so away from the plane of the main hoop.


The tubes that attach the front strut tower are only welded about 4/5th of the way around. They are optional tubes so they are not required to be welded the entire way around. Every other tube on the car is welded 100% around, A lot of the welds were a bitch to finish due to tight areas and not being able to see. I was welding with a mirror; everything is in reverse a big pain in the ass.

[czwalga]

Ugh.... still waiting on the transmission. Progress is pretty much at a standstill. I was supposed to have it months ago.

[96stgreendemon]

are you still doing the 5sfe and awd combo? i cant wait to see this thing when its done, and as far as the roof going back on goes i have a friend locally who is doing the same thing with the cage, as far as cutting the roof off goes. But you may want to look into some kind of composite for the roof replacement, i know he is doing some kind of kevlar carbon fiber weave mix, check our RacingComposites.com

[czwalga]

are you still doing the 5sfe and awd combo? i cant wait to see this thing when its done, and as far as the roof going back on goes i have a friend locally who is doing the same thing with the cage, as far as cutting the roof off goes. But you may want to look into some kind of composite for the roof replacement, i know he is doing some kind of kevlar carbon fiber weave mix, check our RacingComposites.com

Yeah, but I've been waiting for the transmission for months now. If I dont have it within another week i'll be strongly considering running 2wd this summer. I need a solid month of testing before I race, especially more so if i'm doing the AWD swap now.

I hate being under the gun as far as getting stuff done. Last year I was in the same boat because I had a trip planned to get the rx7 tuned, ran into some problems and was working till 2-3am every night after work trying to get it ready. I dont want that again. So if I dont have it soon the stock tranny is going back in, atleast till the end of sept.


The roof is not allowed to be anything other than steel. I've already filled the sunroof in with 16 gauge. Thanks for the thought though.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Feb 10, 2011 - 10:19 AM

[czwalga]

Hmm well good news. R&L carriers called me the tranny is being delivered tomorrow. Seems everytime I start getting really frustrated I get the call like an hour later. Happend twice.


So yeah, I'll probably get the engine in this weekend, then start building the mounts sometime next week.