what defines a sports car? Options

[d3ath2009]

my roommate ticked me off the other day bc he said my car is not a sports car... do i asked him how my celica wasnt a sports car and all he could say is "it just isnt".... so what r eveerybody's opinions on sports cars?

[jordisonjr]

I wouldnt be paying $1600 a year to insure a 1995 non-sports car. haha

[Promasta]

celica is not a sports car, its a subcompact. it is a fwd sporty econobox with 135 hp or less. a sports car needs to be awd or rwd and actually have some power behind it so it can be competitive for racing. some examples would include corvette, gt-r, 370z, 911, r8, etc. the gt-four i would argue is a sports car since it was designed for use in rally sport, especially the wrc.

This post has been edited by Promasta: Apr 17, 2011 - 5:23 PM

[garin]

nissan maxima... the four door sports car!

[4-eyed-freek]

doesnt matter if the car is rear wheel drive, 4wd, 1 wheel drive, what ever, and most of all it doesnt matter if its fwd. it makes no differance in defining a sports car.




the renault r26... yup its fwd and it makes 230hp. yea thats more than the na 2jz.


how about this for fwd. ford focus rs... it makes 325 ftlbs of torque. 0-60 in just over 5 sec. thats faster then most rwd sports cars.


a sports car, it doesnt matter if its powered by a lawn mower engine.. a sports car is something sporty, something fun. something that puts a smile on your face. or mabey something that gets good gas millage, has looks that could kill and has 130hp.... how about a celica.

This post has been edited by 4-eyed-freek: Apr 17, 2011 - 6:43 PM

[richee3]

I'm inclined to agree with Promasta. I wouldn't say the Celica is a "sports car." More like a "sports coupe." Something small, light, and sporty, yet still economical and practical. I would say a "sports car" has a little more power and is quicker than your average car, where the 6th gen is just about average. However, the definition of a sports car is pretty vague and you could easily call the Celica a sports car.

[delusionz]

The Celica was a sports car in it's day, Whats changed? Because the Celica itself certainly hasn't.

3S-GE was and still is a high performance engine (for a 2.0L) even today, Just some countries didn't receive the correct motor.

What makes a Celica a sports car is it's styling and design, and in an uncrippled version (as originally intended by Toyota in Japan) you get the suitable engine, brakes and suspension to give you sports car handling and performance to match.

gt-r, 370z, 911, r8, etc.

Apart from the 370z which is a high performance sports car, the rest of those are supercars.

supercars is a different category to sports cars.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Apr 17, 2011 - 11:10 PM

[schmooot]

I always kind of defined a sports car as something that never came in a 4 door. Minimum requirement

[Promasta]

i would disagree delusionz
yes supercars are a different category to sports cars, they are higher end like mclaren f1, ferraris, lambos, saleen s7, zonda, bugatti, dbs, ccx...

This post has been edited by Promasta: Apr 18, 2011 - 12:02 AM

[HectortheRican]

i would disagree delusionz
yes supercars are a different category to sports cars, they are higher end like mclaren f1, ferraris, lambos, saleen s7, zonda, bugatti, dbs, ccx...

Those are categorized as "hyper" cars. There's your normal cars, sports cars, high performance sports cars, super cars, and hyper cars. In that order.

[trebilihp]

... What about handling? I think a sports car is first off all a good handling car. Since the 6th gen has a 4 wheel independant suspension and had some decent performances versions (2l engine and superstrut suspension), i think it is definatly a sports car... It is true that the st version seems like a maked up corolla, but i drove a 1.8l 1995 corolla and it doesn't feel as good as the celica at all.

[delusionz]

Your Celica may have came with a Camry motor, You may call it a Camry, but that doesn't make anyone elses Celica a Camry besides your own.

[howie_vang]

i had always been told that a 2 door is a sport car and a 4 door is not..that what most insurance look for when u go buy a car..i didn't say it so don't take my words for it..lol

[Promasta]

ya but there's isf, m5, sti, evo, etc which are very competitive on the track

[d3ath2009]

one of the biggest things ive noticed is insurance. my mom has an '06 accord with the 2.4 v-tech, definitely faster than my st, and yet its cheaper for me to be the primary driver on her car than my own. how would this be possible if mine wasn't a sports car....

[azian_advanced]

the value of her car is probably more than yours and probably less likely to be stolen/vandalized?

[delusionz]

Interestingly though, Of the 3 Celicas I've owned an SS-I, an SS-III and my current GT4, On the registration papers where it says Body type the SS-I said Hatchback while the SS-III and GT4 said Sports Car.

[yungazzdriver]

I think because people in the US see celicas used as econo cars we view them as non-sporty but everyone else around the world that had gt4's and ss*** models available are calling them sports cars. I think if in the US we would have gotten those we would consider celicas sporty. IMO i definately think its sporty. I just sold my BMW 325 coupe and I loved the way it handled, but honestly the interior was OK... the celica's interior is very closely related to the supra and feels like your own personal cockpit. Also the celica handes just as good as the bmw did..... I take the same turns at the same speed and feels good to me.......

[spolski07]

i drive a sports car

2 seater RWD 287hp 6-speed

and i have the insurance rates to prove it!

[d3ath2009]

thats the thing though... some ppl define them strictly on looks... so basically u could put a prius motor and transmission on a frame with the blown out suspension from an old cadillac with a corvette body and they would still call it a sports car.... sports car depends on the history an complete family of the car.... sports cars generally come from a model that never had a 4 door version (with some exceptions like certain hatchbacks, wrx-sti and evo, but an m5, and cars of the like, are still sedans... if u pay for a bmw u pay for the best they can offer which means its gonna handle and perform like a sports car with the luxury of a sedan)... as far as i know, i cant think of any sports cars that were offered in a 4 door version other than the exceptions mentioned above... ferrari and porsche both now have those ugly 4 door cars that are sporty based only on the past of the company.

[delusionz]

The USDM model designations also stand for sports tourer and grand tourer both of which are synonymous with sports car.

And you can't deny the heritage with the Celica Supra, Celica XX, Celica GT-Four.

Either way you look at it, the Celica is intended to be an affordable sports car, a step down from the Supra along side the MR2 and in Japan a step up from the Corolla GT and Toyota Trueno/Levin 1600cc sports cars

[delusionz]

And if going by the same token USDM got 5S-FE instead of 3S-GTE

Can we apply this same logic to your USDM 240sx and say its not a sports car when the same car in the rest of the world (depending on marked called 180sx or 200sx) received SR20DET ?

the KA24 is another piece of **** engine just like the 5SFE

No offense to anyone rocking a 5S, but that thing is a boat anchor compared to a 3S-GTE you can't deny that

[HectortheRican]

the KA24 is another piece of **** engine just like the 5SFE

I'd have to disagree on that point. The KA24DE comes stock with almost 150hp, plenty of aftermarket following, and they're a very durable and torquey engine. I know a lot of drifters that drive 240's and half of them choose the KA over the SR, not because of price, but because they firmly believe it's a better engine. I've seen their KA's in action and they're beastly.

But this is a Celica forum, not an S-chassis forum. So, irrelevant.

But as for the Celica, I feel that any car that wasn't derived from the design of an economy model, should be categorized as a sports car. Even though the USDM Celicas have Corolla and Camry motors, their body styles point towards sports cars. But cars like the Civic Type R, though a high-performance car, I don't hold it the same category, since they came from a Civic. It's different with the Integra Type R, though. That was designed to be a sports car. Catch my drift?

This post has been edited by HectortheRican: Apr 18, 2011 - 12:50 PM

[Culpable04]

List !!!

[Supersprynt]

List !!!

Sorry bro, any sports car list with a Geo Storm in it is shi!t in my book.

sports car
noun
sports cars, plural
A low-built car designed for performance at high speeds


Web definitions
a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons

The term sports car has been defined as "an open, low-built, fast motor car." The term describes a class of automobile with two seats, two doors, precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking -- trading practical considerations such as passenger space, comfort, and cargo capacity ...

An automobile designed for high speed and power, tight handling, and flashy looks

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Apr 18, 2011 - 2:01 PM

[rave2n]

Sports car IMO

Its real simple...my 2004 Taurus liability only was 32 monthly.

My 94 7afe Celica ST liability is 46 monthly. Same insurance, same coverage.

Thus sports car. It handles, looks, and was originally designed to have power.

The celica you or I have, may not be a "sports car" but it can, and in my case...will be.


In the end, what I call my car, and what you call yours doesn't matter, aslong as you enjoy daily....or atleast think about enjoying.

[Supersprynt]

Sports car IMO

Its real simple...my 2004 Taurus liability only was 32 monthly.

My 94 7afe Celica ST liability is 46 monthly. Same insurance, same coverage.

Thus sports car.

LOL this is such failed logic. I have an 06 Speed6 (not a sports car) and quoted an 06 350z (undoubtedly sports car) and it was the exact same numbers. I did the same thing with a 1998 Celica GT. My bodily injury liability went down $1.60 and property damage went up $2.70.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Apr 18, 2011 - 2:40 PM

[Supersprynt]

I wouldnt be paying $1600 a year to insure a 1995 non-sports car. haha

If you're 16-22 you will be.

[rave2n]

Sports car IMO

Its real simple...my 2004 Taurus liability only was 32 monthly.

My 94 7afe Celica ST liability is 46 monthly. Same insurance, same coverage.

Thus sports car.

LOL this is such failed logic. I have an 06 Speed6 (not a sports car) and quoted an 06 350z (undoubtedly sports car) and it was the exact same numbers. I did the same thing with a 1998 Celica GT. My bodily injury liability went down $1.60 and property damage went up $2.70.

Well considering on the phone when I spoke to them about the increase their statement was "Well the Celica is in a sports category, where as the taurus is not"

Try explaining that failed logic to all insurance companies and see how far you get...I bet you'll still pay in a sports category, regardless of my "failed logic"

Did you also happen to consider that one vehicle may have more safety features than the other which in turn lowers the insurance costs? That damn failed logic and its broad spectrum can really heat up a debate.

[Culpable04]

List !!!

Sorry bro, any sports car list with a Geo Storm in it is shi!t in my book.

sports car
noun
sports cars, plural
A low-built car designed for performance at high speeds


Web definitions
a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons

The term sports car has been defined as "an open, low-built, fast motor car." The term describes a class of automobile with two seats, two doors, precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking -- trading practical considerations such as passenger space, comfort, and cargo capacity ...

An automobile designed for high speed and power, tight handling, and flashy looks

as much as I dislike the car, it still had similar power figures as the FWD version of the USDM celicas of the same year, and the car was basically an Isuzu Impulse.

Have I revise the list to make sure I agree with every single car on it ? no

the list is not to be put at my refrigerator but it was intented to clarify that a FWD car can also be a Sports car which seem to be the heart of the argument here.

[yarik83]

Lets not confuse a "sports car" with a "sporty car". There are many criteria that differentiate the two.

A sport car usually has lots of horse power, accelerates fast as hell and pull g's on a corner.

A sporty car usually has adequate amount of horse power to get it 0-60 in 8-11 seconds or so and can not pull any kind of g's anywhere unless it is spinning out doing twirly twists on a mountain road where driver is about to fall to his death and car is bouncing off the mountain as it tumbles.

The look may add a "sporty feel" and that is why average teenager geared car looks kind of cool and goes kind of ok but it will not make your adrenalin gland work overdrive.

By comparison when you drive in a sport car (even as passenger) you can feel acceleration force, you can feel superb handling (ie taking 90 degree corner going 45 without spinning out).

A 1994-1999 celica st/gt is not a sports car. It is a sporty car.
A 1994-1999 celica gt4 is a sport car because it is about 2-3 times more powerful and agile than your average 6gc.

Only way to experience what a true sport car feel like is to drive one or be driven in it. Exact words coming out of your mouth will be "holly sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep". And then you slow down at the traffic light, feel your veins pumping, your face swollen, your skin returning to its normal condition and a huge sense of pride. That is what it is like to drive a sport car.

You are right in classifying sport cars into different categories.

A sporty car is something like mitsubishi eclipse.
A sport car is something like mitsubishi evolution
A high performance sport car is something like a nissan gtr
A exotic luxury car is something like a lamborgini

True exotic cars like ferraris, lambo's, bugattis, zondas etc rarely get driven at all. 9/10 times they are used by filthy rich people who drive them from events and back and their normal cars would be something like a mercedes.

True high performance sport cars usually sit in a garage unless they are brought to a race track every once in a while.

True sport cars are rare and that is why you do not see them drive all over the place. To this day having moved to florida I have only seen 24 mitsibishi's evolutions and 23 of those were at dealer lots when I was shopping around. I have only seen 2 supras since 2007... maybe 10 sti's and I live in a heavily populated part of florida.

Now for all of us regular folks there are sporty cars. eclipses, civics, tiburons, celicas etc.

[S8S8]

Plenty of opinions in here, but I think it's near impossible to create the perfect definition of a sports car. For me, a standard Celica is not a sports car. A GT4 is, SS-II and SS-III maybe at a stretch, but none of the others.

I think some of the other posters have got it right - the Celica is a sporty car, but not a sports car.

With regards to insurance, the insurers take into account MANY things other than whether the car is a 'sports car' or not. Aside from the value of the car, premium pricing is based mainly around three things: the claims history with that type of vehicle, the claims history with the age and profile of the driver, and the claims history with where the vehicle is kept.

For a comparison, try getting a quote on a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Yes the premium will be huge because of the value of the car, but on a dollar-for-dollar basis you will find that they are often cheaper to insure than something like a Celica. There's a host of reasons behind that, but basically it comes down to claims history rather than the sportiness of the car. The average Celica driver is far more likely to damage their car than the average Ferrari driver, therefore the claim risk is lower for the insurer, and therefore on a dollar-for-dollar basis the Ferrari will generally be cheaper to insure.

Going back ten years or so, one of the most expensive cars to insure in Australia was a Hyundai Excel. One of the slowest and crappiest cars around, and definitely not a sports car - but their claims history was horrific and therefore the premiums skyrocketed.

Anyway, I'm just trying to say that people should stop talking about their car being classed as a 'sports car' by their insurer and having to pay higher insurance as a result.

[3WayStunna]

IMHO...... The 6th gen celica is definatly a sports car. It was designed, marketed, and advertised as such. The Celica has been used in motorsports since the early 80's to the late 90's Just because America got the waterd down version down not mean it isnt a sports car.

We all know in every other country in the world, the 6th gen can be found with either a 140hp engine, a 170hp engine, a 200hp engine, or a 250hp engine. I can see the point in "classifying" it into different catagories, but when it comes down to it, it was meant to be a sports car. Well in my opinion it was meant to be....

This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Apr 18, 2011 - 8:48 PM

[yarik83]

Lets not forget that significant majority of people on this site are from usa where celica has got a weak treatment. Our opinions and biases are rather skewed on that matter.

[3WayStunna]

Lets not forget that significant majority of people on this site are from usa where celica has got a weak treatment. Our opinions and biases are rather skewed on that matter.

Can understand that....logic....But still not the only 6th gen owners in the world...Kinda messed up though that the 6th gen in the states never got the great engines that the rest of the world either got or can get...

[SwissFerdi]

I agree mostly with what Yuri says. Within a few minutes of being a passenger in a GT-4, I already experienced tire slippage. I figured it was probably a patch of loose tarmac that threw the car off a little after some aggressive maneuvering. Martin later explained that it was an intentional thing, I did not know a Celica could stick onto the road like that! I was extremely impressed. I realize there's a huge drivetrain difference between his and mine, but I could probably never match that in my Celica.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Apr 18, 2011 - 9:54 PM

[delusionz]

a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons

The term sports car has been defined as "an open, low-built, fast motor car." The term describes a class of automobile with two seats, two doors, precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking -- trading practical considerations such as passenger space, comfort, and cargo capacity ...

An automobile designed for high speed and power, tight handling, and flashy looks

The 6GC definitely was designed for high speed and power, tight handling, and flashy looks. The Celica is a perfect example of all of these things in the 1994 model year. There is definitely a tradeoff for a good aerodynamic shape theres no passenger comfort, The regular Celica holds a good amount of cargo in the boot with the fold down seats, But not if you have a factory strut bar or a factory gt4 fuel tank.

IMHO...... The 6th gen celica is definatly a sports car. It was designed, marketed, and advertised as such. The Celica has been used in motorsports since the early 80's to the late 90's Just because America got the waterd down version down not mean it isnt a sports car.

This is the exact point were making.

I agree mostly with what Yuri says. Within a few minutes of being a passenger in a GT-4, I already experienced tire slippage. I figured it was probably a patch of loose tarmac that threw the car off a little after some aggressive maneuvering. Martin later explained that it was an intentional thing, I did not know a Celica could stick onto the road like that! I was extremely impressed. I realize there's a huge drivetrain difference between his and mine, but I could probably never match that in my Celica.

There is a world of difference between the GT4 and the regular Celica, But the regular Celica still has great handling and maneuverability. You try to drive a similar year S-powered Toyota (Eg, Camry, Corona, etc) the same as a Celica you will see what I mean. The 6GC Celica chassis was heavily influenced by TTE based on their experience rallying the ST185, while alot of that went to the ST205, The ST202/4 also reaped some of the benefits and you can't deny this, The GT4 would have been completely divorced from the Celica otherwise (much in the same way the WRX is now completely divorced from the Impreza).

This post has been edited by delusionz: Apr 18, 2011 - 11:19 PM