3SGE Engine Swap - Help!?, New question regarding clutches... see last post. Options

[KAOS]

I recently came across a new 3rd Gen 3SGE for my GT-S. The price was right.

Now I'm sure I'm going to have a plethora of questions about the swap from now until completion, and the forums here so far are a little dry on swap information on a 3SGE... so I wanted to start this thread in hopes that one day the question(s) I ask would be of some use to new members attempting the same swap.

The sale included a 3SGE from a '96 ST202 w/ 98K on it (or so I'm told); a full uncut wiring harness & 3SGE ECU. The axels were chopped off prior to shipping. The engine itself was either cleaned prior to being sold to the guy I bought it from, or it was never abused... I'm hoping for the latter. Regardless, while its out of the engine bay I have every intention of doing some minor upgrades & major maintenance so I won't need to worry about it for a while once its installed and running.

My first set of question(s):

Where can I get quality parts for the 3SGE (OEM & Aftermarket) in North America?

Will the axels from a 5SFE work on the 3SGE Transmission?

Will the 3SGE bolt up to the 5SFE engine mounts?

Will the 5SFE shift cables work with the 3SGE?

Will I need a speedo from a 3SGE - or will the one I currently have work properly? (I have aftermarket tach - I'm more concerned with the km/h dial)

... that should be enough for now.

This post has been edited by KAOS: Apr 27, 2012 - 10:31 PM

[Rusty]

Where can I get quality parts for the 3SGE (OEM & Aftermarket) in North America?
not much, seeing as this area didn't get it factory. Europe, Japan, New Zealand are you best bets

Will the axels from a 5SFE work on the 3SGE Transmission?
yes, however the 3SGE ones are a bit bigger from memory

Will the 3SGE bolt up to the 5SFE engine mounts?
yes both are S series engines

Will the 5SFE shift cables work with the 3SGE?
yes
Will I need a speedo from a 3SGE - or will the one I currently have work properly? (I have aftermarket tach - I'm more concerned with the km/h dial)
No you shouldn't need the speedo
... that should be enough for now.

If you need help, czwalga and a few others are/have swapped a gen 3 3S-GE, theres also there is the repair manual in the sticky

[KAOS]

Thank you Rusty; your stickies have been a wealth of knowledge so far.

And CZWalga has already been helping me with a few other questions I had, but I needed to be sure of a few things.

Thank you again!

[Rusty]

no worries

what upgrades are you thinking about

[giraffe]

he asked about parts for 3s-ge, and you suggested he look out of country. i've had no luck finding a location in the uk/nz whatever to purchase parts.

could you (or any one) please suggest a reputable dealer, parts sight, whatever....

thanks

[KAOS]

no worries

what upgrades are you thinking about

First thing is going to be a lightweight flywheel - I'll either get the stock one machined down, or purchase a fidanza.

Then I was going to look at a set of cams, new exhaust set up and possibly look into a supercharger...

[Rusty]

I might retract previous statement, about parts in North America, there is a bit of interchangeability with the ST204, MR2's etc. such as the cp pistons, eagle rods.


what parts are specifically looking at/for?


camshafts.

Jun Cams
HKS cams or HKS cams

Cat Cams
Piper Cams
CamTech Cams
Franklin Cams
Kelford Cams imo the best out of this group of 5


ECU's standalone/piggyback's

link (G4 storm and atom), megasquirt, mapecu 1/2/3, greddy emanage blue/ultimate, helltech, motech, tom's tec II, c-one power ecu, HKS F-con, blitz access, apexi safc/ powerfc, superchip (UK people seem to use this quite alot) the trick is then trying to find dealers/sites who sell/stock these parts


fensports ST202 Celica, not sure about toda as they mainly do SXE10 and Gen 1 3sge stuff


the factory flywheel is supposed to be 7.5kg iirc?

hmm so a 3S-GZE

supposed to be 276hp @ 5psi, nice example of a cold airbox if I do say so myself

[KAOS]

Holy crap - information overload.

Thank you so much! Is all this information already in the stickies??

I was hoping for some 272 Cams, but it looks like I'll need to upgrade the springs at the same time. So the OEM pistons are ok to run with that degree of cam?

Who's SwordMaster, and where can I find more delicious (possible HI-RES) pictures?



This post has been edited by KAOS: Nov 3, 2011 - 12:19 PM

[Rusty]

thats my photobucket id (I've used it since ages ago), I added it to mine, as sometimes peoples pictures dont show up as they've deteted or moved them.

3S-GZE orginal topic

Not in the stickies yet, but I im working on making them.

You meant to put valve springs in, but you can get away with it.

there is some good reading on MR2OC about 3sge stuff
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=1526...ht=finding+cams

though I dont trust the specs they have for the factory cams @ 1.00mm or @ .050"

This post has been edited by Rusty: Nov 3, 2011 - 6:37 PM

[KAOS]

I'm running low on options for this kind of stuff, but do you think this would be a good kit to invest in Rusty?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1993-1999-Toyota-Ce...3DLVI%26ps%3D63

I've only ever used genuine Toyota parts for that kind of stuff, so I'm a bit sceptical about this kit. I still have plenty of FIPG left over from the 5SFE days...

This post has been edited by KAOS: Dec 1, 2011 - 1:31 PM

[richee3]

No.

bloodMoney had an eBay gasket kit in his rebuilt 5S. 48k later, his motor now sits in my garage floor with a ginormous oil leak from an unknown location and a timing belt nearly in pieces. Seeing this with my own eyes, I would strongly advise to stay away from those. I would see if an overseas member can buy them for you from Toyota before buying the eBay stuff.

[injection]

If your question about 5s parts and 3s parts gelin, hasn't been answered yet, which it probably has cause of the useful info on this site, all S series 4 cylinder motors and trannys can be mated with eachother.....5sfe/3sge/3sgte, if you had an S series I'n your car before you drop your motor I'n, your factory mounts will accommodate it, either that, or if you own the GT model Celica....I believe you have the GT-S, that will work. I used my 5s tranny with my 3sgte engine, works fantastic!! And my tranny has 277,000 KMs on it, the only thing I did was give the inside a solvent bath, and put a stage 1 clutch, handles the power great..
Good luck with your swap....you will notice good solid power gains with the 3sge, over the 5s

[injection]

By the way, my speedo cable rpm gauge all worked with the same clips that came with my 3s motor....that's not the hard part, the hard part with the 3sgte was the handful of wires ( EMS ) that need to be redirected to work with your car side wiring...I personally was not up to the task, nor had the patience for schematics, so I just paid Tweak to do it, yours may be simpler, only because no turbo complication with wiring

[Rusty]

You should be able to buy the toyota gasket set the same way other people in the USA buy JDM/ST205/3S-GTE specific parts, they might not have it listed so would have to ask

[KAOS]

Anyone in North America able to comment on where they get their 3SGE/GTE maintenance parts from?

Thanks.

[purplegt4]

Anyone in North America able to comment on where they get their 3SGE/GTE maintenance parts from?

Thanks.

Mostly from:
Conicelli Toyota http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=77353

also from:
Lithia Toyota

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Feb 1, 2012 - 5:00 PM

[richee3]

eBay, but any part available in North America I get from Lithia.

[KAOS]

Maybe this would be a better question to ask then: Do you guys have the part #'s for the belts, water pump and gaskets for the 3rd gen 3SGE?

[KAOS]

Now I know this was mentioned in another thread already, but I can't seem to find it... but is it possible for my 5S headers to bolt to the 3S directly so that I can just use the stock exhaust setup and save the headache...?

[99gt3sge]

nope the 5s headers wont work, i had to make the flange and make the lower part of header. unless u find those 3rd gen headers on ebay. which ive seen but the guy wanted to much for them.

[KAOS]

The headers for the 3SGE came with the engine. I just want to know if the after market headers I have from the 5S would work so I could keep the current exhaust.

[Rusty]

Fujitsubo, HKS or keep your factory extractors, match port them and then coat them or heat wrap them.

also KAOS pm me the part names and I'll find the part numbers on toyodiy for you.

[KAOS]

Swap is coming along great - thanks for all the advice.

I need some suggestions for clutch now.

I recently picked up a Fidanza Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel and now I want a decent clutch to go with it. Currently, I don't plan on pushing more than 210HP, so I won't need anything extreme.

The car will be my daily driver, and I know that a lightweight flywheel might be a bit touchier in the stop and go traffic; so I want a clutch that would complement it rather than make it worse.

Any suggestions?

[delusionz]

id go with an exedy stage 1 kit, 20% more clamping force than stock, full face organic disc (atleast in this part of the world, some american outfit would have a similar product)

[BonzaiCelica]

any 3sge clutch kits in Canada that can be shipped to California?!

[KAOS]

id go with an exedy stage 1 kit, 20% more clamping force than stock, full face organic disc (atleast in this part of the world, some american outfit would have a similar product)

Can't seem to find any for the 94-99 S54. Lots for 7A 1.8L models)

[njccmd2002]

there are several clutches on ebay for the 3sge, look them up.

for part numbers, toyo-diy

if you want to source parts.
http://www.cheaptoyotaparts.co.uk/ they ship internationally, im about to order from them.

[BonzaiCelica]

yea I figured this out yesterday. I'm going call 4-5 aftermarket clutch companies to see what they can put together. The spec already has the combo/hybrid available but those are for 3sgte motors mated to s54 transmissions. Hi-output power of the turbo.

hmm wow. then to my understanding via toyodiy. 1999 5SFE and 1999 3SGE Beams motor use the same disc plate??? With this 4.529 final drive gear ratio I have an extra 19 more ft lb torque(on paper) than a 5sfe. So the ST185 pressure plate should suffice the extra amount of torque right??

1999 Toyota Celica SS-III
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1999_TOYO...BLMZF_3101.html

1999 Toyota Celica ST204 (5SFE)
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1999_TOYO...LMGKK_3101.html

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 1, 2012 - 3:01 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

there are several clutches on ebay for the 3sge, look them up.

for part numbers, toyo-diy

if you want to source parts.
http://www.cheaptoyotaparts.co.uk/ they ship internationally, im about to order from them.

what you can do is order the 1999 (make sure its only 1999) 5sfe clutch disc and ST185 pressure plate. I'm just looking for a organic clutch disc so that it can hold down the power better.

So stock 3sgte has a spline count of 21 because its mated with an E153 fwd/E154 AWD transmission

A stock 5sfe has a spline count of 20 because its mated to a S54 transmission. My only question is what is the diameter of the 5sfe disc and 3sgte disc???

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 1, 2012 - 4:29 PM