Want to put a cage in my car. Options

[EastSideGuns]

Since I'm most likely going to get a larger, four door car as a DD next year, I've been thinking I should go all out on my Celica. Still allowing it to be street legal, just barely.

Originally I was pondering whether I should put a 4 point cage in, but now I'm pretty sure I want an 8 point cage.

I know it's going to be a pain in the backside, and I already basically know what to do after reading czwalga's rally car thread, but I have some questions still.

1. I have a sunroof. I want to get rid of it, but then again I don't. Pros and cons of having it?

2. I've gotta take all the plastic out and everything so the cage would fit right and so nothing catches fire while welding. Duh. However, I still want a nice interior. I'll leave the dash. Would it be real difficult to make some cool aluminum interior pieces?

Any input is welcome.

[Neon90424]

why do you want a cage? are you some sort of animal? jk Im pretty sure that making aluminum interior panels wont be that hard and they would just be riveted into the cage ive seen some pretty nice work with aluminum on cages.. jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6JA2aEvDCc

this one has a nice dash

[EastSideGuns]

Well I think I'm going to go bare-bones on the car, no A/C, power windows, etc. All for light weight, but still needs some interior accomodation.

[Neon90424]

u gonna 3sgte swap or something?

remember the celica still has to mantain some kind of normal balance between the front and the back if you take everything out you might be very prone to oversteer...might wanna move the battery to the back etc...

[EastSideGuns]

Actually I'm going to leave. The 7A-FE in for that reason. I'm going to rebuild the engine then squeeze a decent amount of horsepower out of it.

[SupraKid]

My input:

Putting a cage in a 120fwhp car is retarded, and yes, even with mods that's all the 7afe will put out if your lucky.

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Nov 18, 2011 - 8:05 PM

[czwalga]

I appreciate you going through my thread, but word of advice dont build a cage to build a cage.

All different types of racing require different builds. You could end up with a cage that really isnt legal for anything.


I have a 6 point with removable door bars in the rx7, to make it legal to run under 11.5 sec on NHRA tracks, but the celica's cage wouldnt be NHRA legal.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Nov 18, 2011 - 8:14 PM

[EastSideGuns]

My input:

Putting a cage in a 120fwhp car is retarded, and yes, even with mods that's all the 7afe will put out if your lucky.

I don't really care if it's retarded or not, I'd just like to personalize my car.

If it makes 120 hp, atleast it will be light.

[czwalga]

Even if you strip out the interior your weight gain will still be probably be around 100lbs. You're stripping out plastic and replacing it with metal.

[EastSideGuns]

I'm not planning on racing though.

[cheela]

so... why are u putting a cage in if your not racing???

[EastSideGuns]

Wow factor and self satisfaction.

[str8thugginit4ya]

Wow factor and self satisfaction.

I do really think what you're doing is crazy, but if that's what you want to do to be satisfied with your car, then so be it. I just think that's a hell of a lot of work to put in when you're not even going to be putting it to good use. Plus, if you want it to look nice for a wow factor, you're gonna have to spray the cage & everything after it's installed in the interior. Which is not hard, but tedious. Good luck with your venture my friend.


-Ryan

[SwissFerdi]

I'm all down for ambition, but I'm willing to wager that once you get down to the business of completely planning said cage, the effort might deter you. If it doesn't, then I'm down for seeing a bad as cage build.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 19, 2011 - 10:29 AM

[EastSideGuns]

I just want to make a badass car. I have quite awhile to think about it until I get another car.

[czwalga]

Well goodluck. Have you thought about all the costs? DOM is around $7 a foot. I bought 140 feet, probably used 120-130'ish. But you could probably get away with around 100 since I added extra for the AWD.

The bender plus the dyes is around 600-700. Decent welder, gas tank (no way i'd build a cage with flux core wire), misc sheet steel.


It's your care but personally i'd never put a full cage in a street car, it's a pain in the ass.

[richee3]

I respect your reasoning for the cage. It's your car, you are aware of the work involved, and the fact that in the long run, it won't be as useful as a cage in Ken Block's car. What I don't understand is that you want to build a BA car, yet leave the 7A, and 120 hp is perfectly fine? Each of those things is contradictory. But again, I fully respect your reasoning. It's your car and we as a group would much rather see it with a cage than another Invader body kit. I say if you want a cage, build yourself a cage and the motor to back it up.

[jordisonjr]

So you want to strip all the weight, and you want to put all that weight back in with a cage? Makes sense..

[mkernz22]

You'd probably add more weight than save weight with the cage.

This is all just my input and opinion, but there is no "badass" to a car that has a cage that's only pushing 120whp, if that, and i dont feel like there's any wow factor to it since it's not actually going to help with anything. it's not really going all out if you just leave the 7afe in there, even if you turbo it.

[diegohiga]

I would save that money to buy a set of coilovers.

[SwissFerdi]

it's not really going all out if you just leave the 7afe in there, even if you turbo it.

Yeah see, but strip it as planned...ditch the cage idea, to save weight...and turbo. Your power-to-weight ratio will be miles better than factory.

Stock ST: 23.8 pounds per horsepower (figuring 2500 fully loaded pounds in my case).

7A-FTE: Let's say 180bhp, 153whp, and let us put the car at 2300 lbs, fully loaded again. 12.77, meaning with a bit o' forced induction and some aural discomfort, you'll literally have twice the Cerica.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 20, 2011 - 10:50 AM

[EastSideGuns]

I respect your reasoning for the cage. It's your car, you are aware of the work involved, and the fact that in the long run, it won't be as useful as a cage in Ken Block's car. What I don't understand is that you want to build a BA car, yet leave the 7A, and 120 hp is perfectly fine? Each of those things is contradictory. But again, I fully respect your reasoning. It's your car and we as a group would much rather see it with a cage than another Invader body kit. I say if you want a cage, build yourself a cage and the motor to back it up.

See, I wasn't aware the 7A-FE wouldn't produce a lot of horsepower. I was going to leave it for its light weight, but I thought with the right parts, engine balancing, etc that it would gain more than just 10 hp from stock. I'm sure you could get quite a bit of hp out of it...it would just take a lot of money I'm sure.

I'll have to think that through a little more. Is the 3S-GTE the absolute best option otherwise?

it's not really going all out if you just leave the 7afe in there, even if you turbo it.

Yeah see, but strip it as planned...ditch the cage idea, to save weight...and turbo. Your power-to-weight ratio will be miles better than factory.

Stock ST: 23.8 pounds per horsepower (figuring 2500 fully loaded pounds in my case).

7A-FTE: Let's say 180bhp, 153whp, and let us put the car at 2300 lbs, fully loaded again. 12.77, meaning with a bit o' forced induction and some aural discomfort, you'll literally have twice the Cerica.

Also, if you balance it out well (battery relocation, maybe placement of a/the fuel cell), it will handle better still.

[EastSideGuns]

Guys, I'm 18 years old. However I've had a lot of experience with machinery. My job for three years (on and off) has been repair and maintenance on medical air systems. Vacuum pumps and air compressors. I can run multiple hand and power tools, pneumatics, lathes, and I've had some experience on milling machines.

My father used to work for a guy who raced sprint cars in the 80's and 90's. From the things that he's told me, I have a basic knowledge of frame and cage building, as well as race car setup.

While that may seem somewhat irrelevant, what I mean by this passage is that I'm a project kind of guy. I'm a person who will accept any challenge. I want my Celica to be my project.

[Neon90424]

I'll have to think that through a little more. Is the 3S-GTE the absolute best option otherwise?

3SGTE swap = Celica Missile

[EastSideGuns]

How much horsepower can one obtain?

[stephen_lee]

3sgte + celica = unlimited HP.

u mad?

[EastSideGuns]

Ha, no, why would I be mad?

[cheela]

trust us. 7afe turboed will give 180 HP at most

3sgte is already more than that stock and can double/triple/quadruple

if not, go read up on the stickies in the engine forum, there's a few other options to swap out for the 7afe such as 4age, 4agze, or 7agte. Read read read

[SupraKid]

I just want to make a badass car. I have quite awhile to think about it until I get another car.

7afe and badass car don't go hand in hand... You want to make your car look really fast without actually being anywhere close to it, your like most other 18 year olds...I did it

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Nov 22, 2011 - 12:15 AM

[SwissFerdi]

To me, a 7A-FTE build seems to be worth it only if parts happen to come cheap, yet sturdy, and the builder makes sure, properly makes sure, that the engine is prepared to handle a few pounds of boost. That's a tough combination, but I see where you're coming from. The setup greatly intrigues me as well.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 22, 2011 - 12:35 AM

[EastSideGuns]

trust us. 7afe turboed will give 180 HP at most

3sgte is already more than that stock and can double/triple/quadruple

if not, go read up on the stickies in the engine forum, there's a few other options to swap out for the 7afe such as 4age, 4agze, or 7agte. Read read read

Will do.

Not gonna pour money into my car until I figure out what is best and most efficient. I'm not talking fuel efficiency......but power to weight and COG.

[EastSideGuns]

I just want to make a badass car. I have quite awhile to think about it until I get another car.

7afe and badass car don't go hand in hand... You want to make your car look really fast without actually being anywhere close to it, your like most other 18 year olds...I did it

Yeah I try not to be like all those other kids...making cardboard body kits and getting plastic WalMart spinner hubcaps for their '89 Civic that's been in an accident or two. Unattractive cars FTL...

But I didn't know the 7A-FE wasn't the best option for badassness.

[Neon90424]

3sgte swap at stock in the least gives you at least 230-250 horsepower...at the least!, turn it to 17 pounds like dustin (batman722 i believe check his thread) and you got easily around 330hp... STOCK!

[czwalga]

3sgte swap at stock in the least gives you at least 230-250 horsepower...at the least!, turn it to 17 pounds like dustin (batman722 i believe check his thread) and you got easily around 330hp... STOCK!

17lbs with a 3sgte in a ST celica is pretty damn far from stock.

[stephen_lee]

3sgte swap at stock in the least gives you at least 230-250 horsepower...at the least!, turn it to 17 pounds like dustin (batman722 i believe check his thread) and you got easily around 330hp...with STOCK 3sgte parts!

17lbs with a 3sgte in a ST celica is pretty damn far from stock.

fixed

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Nov 22, 2011 - 9:09 AM

[playr158]

Im going to go with the basic rule.....if you have a cage in your car you need to be wearing a helmet. If not and you wreck youre likely to split your head open on a bar.


Do some research read the stickies....you has much to learn.

[lagos]

Guys, I'm 18 years old.

So now get to work and we expect to see some progress pictures starting this weekend.

[EastSideGuns]

Guys, I'm 18 years old.

So now get to work and we expect to see some progress pictures starting this weekend.

I'll be starting when I get another car as a daily driver next year. Stated in the first post.

[richee3]

See, I wasn't aware the 7A-FE wouldn't produce a lot of horsepower.

See, that's an important bit of information that was missing from this thread earlier. A cage in a 3S-GTE powered Celica starts to make a lot more sense than a cage in a 7A powered Celica. But as I said before, regardless of what engine you have in the car, I respect your reason for wanting a cage. It's your car, do what you want with it. Do what makes you happy, not what's going to make some guys on the internet that will never even see your car happy.

[EastSideGuns]

See, I wasn't aware the 7A-FE wouldn't produce a lot of horsepower.

See, that's an important bit of information that was missing from this thread earlier. A cage in a 3S-GTE powered Celica starts to make a lot more sense than a cage in a 7A powered Celica. But as I said before, regardless of what engine you have in the car, I respect your reason for wanting a cage. It's your car, do what you want with it. Do what makes you happy, not what's going to make some guys on the internet that will never even see your car happy.

I probably will switch to the BEAMS then. Makes more sence. Are they pretty easy to find?

[mak5603]

Im going to go with the basic rule.....if you have a cage in your car you need to be wearing a helmet. If not and you wreck youre likely to split your head open on a bar.


Do some research read the stickies....you has much to learn.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Unless you're trying out for a fast and the furious feature, cages are for RACING applications. As much as you think people will think it's cool, about 95% of people will laugh at you, and the 5% that don't are also 18 years old. Sorry man, but you might as well save the $1000-$2000 and get a part that is actually beneficial for your application like coil overs or an engine swap or wheels or exterior, etc.

[richee3]

The BEAMS is pretty easy to find. There's usually a handful of them on Ebay. It's an easy swap too, as easy as a swap can be. It's not exactly a huge powerhouse but it's fun. The only catch with the BEAMS is difficulty on finding parts.

[EastSideGuns]

The BEAMS is pretty easy to find. There's usually a handful of them on Ebay. It's an easy swap too, as easy as a swap can be. It's not exactly a huge powerhouse but it's fun. The only catch with the BEAMS is difficulty on finding parts.

I'll be looking around then.

[EastSideGuns]

Im going to go with the basic rule.....if you have a cage in your car you need to be wearing a helmet. If not and you wreck youre likely to split your head open on a bar.


Do some research read the stickies....you has much to learn.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Unless you're trying out for a fast and the furious feature, cages are for RACING applications. As much as you think people will think it's cool, about 95% of people will laugh at you, and the 5% that don't are also 18 years old. Sorry man, but you might as well save the $1000-$2000 and get a part that is actually beneficial for your application like coil overs or an engine swap or wheels or exterior, etc.

There are so many road cars with cages built into them, even by factories. What makes a Celica any different?

[Lil-Joe101]

U know wut man, its ur car. Build it how u want to. Obviously u have a vision of how u want it to look when its finished that none of us can see. Who cares what people say or think their opinion shouldnt matter as long as ur happy with wut uv accomplished thats all that matters.

[mak5603]

Im going to go with the basic rule.....if you have a cage in your car you need to be wearing a helmet. If not and you wreck youre likely to split your head open on a bar.


Do some research read the stickies....you has much to learn.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Unless you're trying out for a fast and the furious feature, cages are for RACING applications. As much as you think people will think it's cool, about 95% of people will laugh at you, and the 5% that don't are also 18 years old. Sorry man, but you might as well save the $1000-$2000 and get a part that is actually beneficial for your application like coil overs or an engine swap or wheels or exterior, etc.

There are so many road cars with cages built into them, even by factories. What makes a Celica any different?

Lol are you serious? Nothing makes it different. Anyone driving a car with a cage and no helmet can crack their head open on it...

Is that a risk worth taking to do what you think looks "cool"? I'm not hating on cages, I'm hating on idiots misusing them. The purpose of a cage is to save your life, not end it... There is 0 need for a cage in a road car, the highest speed limit I have ever seen is 70mph on a complete straightaway, and its pretty sad if you roll your car in that situation... Any way you are supposed to drive on public streets does not require a cage.

And what cars come stock with cages? Especially FWD econo boxes with under 200hp.

This post has been edited by mak5603: Nov 25, 2011 - 1:41 AM

[lagos]

Guys, he's 18 and he doesn't plan on doing this for another year. Most 18yr olds have crazy ideas and dreams for their car that change every other month. This will most likely never happen. No need to turn it into a serious discussion lol.

[Neon90424]

If you want wow cool safe looking factor...take out rear seats put in a pair of Brides and 5 point harness...looks like sex and it wont crack your skull open

[BonzaiCelica]

hehe, he can always put roll bar padding, which will lessen the impact of his head on the bars themselves. haha but true that car projects are always changing. Things happen in life and then all your car projects idea's go out the window

[czwalga]

You can put a 4 point with door bars in. There's not bars that your head will smack off unless your seat snaps when you're rear ended. What I have in the rx7 and its a street'ish car.


With a full cage we're still required to put sfi/fia spec padding in all the areas the helmet could potentially make contact with the cage.

[njccmd2002]

i just wend and did some research because i was very confused about the meaning of a cage in a car, i thought it must have a very thoughtful process. So i did a personalized google search an input data on the cars specs like maximum horsepower and engine type and came with very odd resutls. Are you sure this is what you need.

Well you migh think im crazy, but i just want to share my resutls with you...







whatever choice you make no need to thank me, i know im getting very old at these computer searches, and i might have misplaced a keystroke for that matter. See every time someone mistakes a keystroke bad things happen. I remember one time, in a movie because of the keystroke world war three almost happened. Yes i know it was a movie because I remember being there. As for world war 3 goes, well i know that is impossible, even though, there are 2 already made, if they decide to make a 3 it will be going to watch the SAW saga or Scream saga, o hell event the twilight saga. In any chance if you decide to go see twilight, please wear blue glasses. Some people say that some young kids have been exposed to some serious light effects of that movie and have triggered seizures, and ended up in the hospital. They will put you on seizure medicine. One of those medicines, can cause your gums to swell very badly. and make distortion our of your teeth. At any rate, just make sure that you get regular dentist visits every year, to ensure healthy dental hygiene. Its not easy to be clean, hygiene is one of the most controversial topics now a day, some hospitals are placing cameras in their ICU to even monitor if doctors are washing their hands. Which is kind of funny in that movie enemy of the state, where they track will smith, they dont have to use any cameras, they all do it with a GPS enabled sensors. If you ask me dont buy a garmin, they are seriously outdated, its better to use a TOM TOM.

oh my gosh, see what a simple keystroke error can do, sorry i wasted 3 minutes typing this, its because im getting to old. At any rate gl with what you choose...

[czwalga]

THats like a crazy 100 point cage.... must be extra safe!

[mak5603]

Dude that cage would look so sick on my civic! And everyone would know how serious business I am!

[95CelicaST]

Zombie-proof exo cage.

[EastSideGuns]

As I said, I have a long time to ponder over this. I appreciate everyone's input, negative or positive, it's helping me figure out what I really want to do.

Thanks everyone.

[stephen_lee]

I like that black cage.. why is rebecca black ‘famous’?? wth someone making song about chicken should be famous not someone who sings about friday and someone singin about derr moment.. lyk you aint dat famous to b singing about your ”moment”:\ im scurdd, CHICKEn Okay if you are like me, I absolutely loveeeeeee chicken. Baked, fried, bbq, oven crisp, shaken with bread crumbs. But to find a recipe where I can mix chicken with my next favorite thing, wine? i have a mole on my right breast It suddenly appeared. And has slowly been marking its presence. When I look at it I feel nausea. I now notice its become black in the center. I have always had an issue with my breasts- ever since age 5 or 6 my brother stood outside my bedroom door and in anger told me how ugly i was – how flat chested, how hairy, how unloveable. I feel it snake through me with my breath, presently with my eyes closed but I want it to become intrinsic. SO that the comfort of that dark potent feminine is with me – my constant companion. THat nourishes me and I realise i need it more than just the time of meditation – I need it to balance me, to allow me, to free me…..

[Neon90424]

I like that black cage.. why is rebecca black ‘famous’?? wth someone making song about chicken should be famous not someone who sings about friday and someone singin about derr moment.. lyk you aint dat famous to b singing about your ”moment”:\ im scurdd, CHICKEn Okay if you are like me, I absolutely loveeeeeee chicken. Baked, fried, bbq, oven crisp, shaken with bread crumbs. But to find a recipe where I can mix chicken with my next favorite thing, wine? i have a mole on my right breast It suddenly appeared. And has slowly been marking its presence. When I look at it I feel nausea. I now notice its become black in the center. I have always had an issue with my breasts- ever since age 5 or 6 my brother stood outside my bedroom door and in anger told me how ugly i was – how flat chested, how hairy, how unloveable. I feel it snake through me with my breath, presently with my eyes closed but I want it to become intrinsic. SO that the comfort of that dark potent feminine is with me – my constant companion. THat nourishes me and I realise i need it more than just the time of meditation – I need it to balance me, to allow me, to free me…..

What...the...fack...man?