not building boost, am i missing something? Options

[easternpiro1]

Hi all, was wondering if i can get some feedback on something i was missing. here's the story:

recently a friend and I fixed a leak due to stripped thread in the head causing a leak between the exhaust manifold and block.

after rethreading and putting everything back togehter leak is gone BUT now im seeing much lower boost numbers after taking it for a drive.

I own an AEM tru boost controler/gauge and the boost is currently set to stock wastegate pressure (8psi) and consistently held this pressure PRIOR to fixing the exhaust leak.

as of today, my first drive out, my car would not pull past 5psi and touched 6psi BRIEFLY. I double checked my IC piping and adjusted and retightened.

when i went back out the car would only boost up to 4-5 psi adn sometimes as low as 2-3 max.



Im pretty sure its a leak somewhere but it can only be one place as the only IC piping that was removed was the piping coming from the turbo (charge side) i have checked and double checked it.

is there something im missing? any helpful hints would be appreciated! thanks!

[bsamps4]

Have you tried to readjust the true boost?

[easternpiro1]

nah the lines coming from the tru boost are not hooked onto the wastegate and turbo yet. i have still been running it on the wastegate until i got the exhaust leak taken care of.



This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Apr 28, 2012 - 4:19 PM

[bsamps4]

Reconnect sir.

[easternpiro1]

Reconnect sir.

its never been connected to the tru boost. its always been wastegate i may have overlooked piping closer to the intercooler, will check that. it couldnt be anything else because nothing else was taken off except the turbo/manifold

i want to hook the trueboost up, but if its not acting right on just wastegate pressure, im afraid upping the boost will only make matters worse?

[presure2]

build a boost leak tester, bro, theres gotta be a leak somewhere.

[easternpiro1]

Yeah, its pretty sporadic. im going to have to go to lowes this week....


http://youtu.be/atretf9u-Mc

[TannerEsser]

bad boost controller? like a bad spring

[easternpiro1]

bad boost controller? like a bad spring

nah, couldnt be, its brand new, and this only started happening after i removed the charge piping to take care of a stripped bolt on exhaust manifold

[TannerEsser]

bad boost controller? like a bad spring

nah, couldnt be, its brand new, and this only started happening after i removed the charge piping to take care of a stripped bolt on exhaust manifold

open waist gate or bov?

[playr158]

yea i'd vote that wastegate is blowing open or is stuck open

[easternpiro1]

hmmm. im about to ask a silly question... how do i get it unstuck?


I tightened down the piping again to be sure, took it for a drive, and NOW it wont build boost AT ALL. i only took the car to the end of the street, but i could tell after only getting on it up to 3000rpms in 2nd gear that it wasnt acting right... hell i could tell by the vac on the gauge (reading at 16-15)


def making that boost leak tester today or this weekend when i can get the chance. this is craziness lol.

[easternpiro1]

hmmm. im about to ask a silly question... how do i get it unstuck?


I tightened down the piping again to be sure, took it for a drive, and NOW it wont build boost AT ALL. i only took the car to the end of the street, but i could tell after only getting on it up to 3000rpms in 2nd gear that it wasnt acting right... hell i could tell by the vac on the gauge (reading at 16-15)


def making that boost leak tester today or this weekend when i can get the chance. this is craziness lol.

[playr158]

You take the downpipe off and you'll be able to see it. sometimes you'll need to replace the wastegate actuator (if that is causing it)
or it might be getting stuck on the downpipe flange (i believe i recall this happening on 3sgtes with an aftermarket downpipe, but that recollection is from years ago)

it really depends why its stuck open as to how you unstick it.

[easternpiro1]

You take the downpipe off and you'll be able to see it. sometimes you'll need to replace the wastegate actuator (if that is causing it)
or it might be getting stuck on the downpipe flange (i believe i recall this happening on 3sgtes with an aftermarket downpipe, but that recollection is from years ago)

it really depends why its stuck open as to how you unstick it.

hmmm i will def check that out too this weekend! I just bought materials for the boost leak tester, I FAILED by buying a pipe drain cap that was too big lolz going back to lowes tomorro

[easternpiro1]

HEY, didnt get to pressure test it yet, BUT readjusted some more piping, and a friend noticed that my wastegate line was a little crooked, after adjusting it, it boosted better initally, but went right back to NO boost at all. going to try to test today or tomorrow, it MAY be a bad wastegate... its moving but the diaphram on inside may be messed up

[easternpiro1]

HEY, didnt get to pressure test it yet, BUT readjusted some more piping, and a friend noticed that my wastegate line was a little crooked, after adjusting it, it boosted better initally, but went right back to NO boost at all. going to try to test today or tomorrow, it MAY be a bad wastegate... its moving but the diaphram on inside may be messed up

[sean530sly]

any plug wires get damaged during maintenance? (slightly) pulled out from the connector?

[easternpiro1]

I dont think so. I dont have any wires, its coil on plug. its really weird. the BOV wont go off, indicating a leak BEFORE the Throttle body i suppose? im really hoping its not turbo related. but more and more its seeming like it.

[easternpiro1]

OOOKAY. I took apart ALL of my IC Piping, cut larger diameter holes for the charge piping and cold piping to go through, as it was rubbing, and used my nifty boost leak tester to find any leaks in the system.


I heard no air escaping from the lines which led my friend to believe that my blow off valve is probably leaking (hence the stuttering and NO boost being built under load) I have a TIAL Q. I will be trying a heavier spring, and HOPEFULLY that will fix the problem... I'll be saying my prayers extra hard lol.

if its not the BOV, my attention will FULLY be turned to the wastegate possibly being stuck open (which we believe may not be likely due to the fact that after preloading it, it built up to 8 psi as hoped, then dropped later.


UGH.

[lagos]

Are they knock-off ebay parts or the real deal that you are using?

[easternpiro1]

my couplers are from vibrant performance, and I believe my pipes are as well. My blow off is the real deal Tial Q, hopefully putting another spring in there will help (A friend has some lying around) from what ive read on Tial's spring settings, i need an 10 or 11psi spring as the 3ssgte vac ranges from 18-20.

does that vaccum reading sound correct? I remember it always reading about 19 or 20 on the ninja turtle 1. and it was about 18 before taking the manifold off IIRC.

[easternpiro1]

took off BOV (tial Q) and shimmed it to strenghten the spring, as it was opening under idle.

took off downpipe and inspected wastegate flap which would stick open a little when we played with the actuator rod, adjusted it a little bit, and took it for a ride.

Unfortunately STILL no boost is being made. I have an extra wastegate from a ct20B hopefully we can test that one and the one currently on the car further.

my next step will be taking the cap off of the top of the wastegate and switching it with the line running from the turbo which is now hooked to the line at the bottom of the wastegate.

I cant believe just threading the head could cause all of this foolishness....


also checked the hot side of turbo no shaft play, and it spins freely.

[easternpiro1]

You take the downpipe off and you'll be able to see it. sometimes you'll need to replace the wastegate actuator (if that is causing it)
or it might be getting stuck on the downpipe flange (i believe i recall this happening on 3sgtes with an aftermarket downpipe, but that recollection is from years ago)

it really depends why its stuck open as to how you unstick it.

hey guys, brief update....

cam (boosted185/phoenixtech) came up to visit for a drift event, and we talked about the problem, and he noticed that the w/g rod was actually bent a bit, (as suspected). he suggested replacing and all would be well!

here's the WEIRD part....


while i was at a light I ran out of my car to engage in random foolishness, but to make a long story short, i did a wheelhopping burnout, and then i noticed that my boost kicked in. apparently the vibration shook something loose, causing the w/g to free up a bit I suppose.


WEIRD o.O im still not satisfied with the consistency of the boost (will only hit 6.5psi instead of high7's) which means the w/g is still open partially but im glad i know exactly what it is, however not the question is how to go about unsticking it (as was stated above)


the w/g isnt getting hung up on anything so i guess it was just acting "weird". I have no idea why

thanks for the help! everyone!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: May 27, 2012 - 7:15 AM

[malecrod]

Matt, is your turbo clocked? If it is, make sure the plate holding the wastegate is not flexing/moving when you boost.

[easternpiro1]

actually no, its still in its stock position, it was boosting ok yesterday, then this morning when i was driving, it wouldnt go into boost again, at first it went to 5psi, then eventually back down to 0psi. going to see if anyone has a ct20b wastegate, I will also try to fiddle around with the rod. Just not sure exactly which direction to go. really trying to avoid buying another one

[bsamps4]

Are you still using the stock VSV?

[easternpiro1]

yeah stock VSV still in place

[PhoenixTech]

yeah stock VSV still in place

No it's not. The VSV was eliminated when you went to the Tru-Boost.

[easternpiro1]

yeah stock VSV still in place

No it's not. The VSV was eliminated when you went to the Tru-Boost.

thats right, i confused it with something else. thanks cam!

quick update, the car is still not building boost, tested the wastegate and it would not hold vaccum. SO I used my BACKUP wastegate off my old ct20b, would be my luck that that one didnt work either so a good friend of mine made a custom bracket for me and made some snazzy welding mods to a new rod and we came up with this:




these are the old wastegates:





took the car out for a drive and it held to 3lbs then eventually dropped, and would not build boost at all eventually. got some advice and im inclined to believe that the turbo has gone bad. i have NO idea how it could have gone bad as it worked fine before.

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Jun 5, 2012 - 8:13 PM

[lagos]

Matt...

1. Out of all the 3sgte owners over all the years, none of them had ever had a bad wastegate actuator that needed to be replaced.
2. when a turbo "goes bad" it either produces ZERO boost (because the exhaust fins are missing) or it produces boost like normal but spits out lots of blue smoke from oil burning.

A bad turbo or a bad wastegate is not your problem.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jun 6, 2012 - 9:01 AM

[lagos]

Can you take a general picture of your engine bay, intercooler piping, and a close up of the turbo/downpipe/manifold area?

How are you measuring boost? What brand of boost gauge are you using and where is it connected to?

WEIRD o.O im still not satisfied with the consistency of the boost (will only hit 6.5psi instead of high7's) which means the w/g is still open partially but im glad i know exactly what it is, however not the question is how to go about unsticking it (as was stated above)

NO IT DOES NOT!
The difference between 6.5 or 7.5 or whatever is due to the accuracy of the boost gauge, and also the elevation of where you live and the weather temperature outside. Just because the wastegate is said to be set to 7psi from the factory, doesn't mean that you will get EXACTLY 7.0psi.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jun 5, 2012 - 9:58 PM

[lagos]

Put the stock wastegate back on.
Remove the boost controller and just connect the port from the turbo to the port on the wastegate together with some good quality 4mm fuel line hose. Then take the car for a ride an see if you can make anywhere from 5-8psi of boost. If you can, everything is working correctly and you need to then install your boost controller and set it up for more boost.

took the car out for a drive and it held to 3lbs then eventually dropped, and would not build boost at all eventually

Because you put some crazy aftermarket wastegate actuator on that was never meant to be used with this turbo and your flapper door is probably blowing open every time you boost.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jun 6, 2012 - 9:02 AM

[easternpiro1]

Matt...

1. Out of all the 3sgte owners over all the years, none of them had ever had a bad wastegate actuator that needed to be replaced.
2. when a turbo "goes bad" it either produces ZERO boost (because the exhaust fins are missing) or it produces boost like normal but spits out lots of blue smoke from oil burning.

A bad turbo or a bad wastegate is not your problem.

Im hoping its not either w/g or turbo, I took out my w/g and a friend of mine tested it using a hand held pump with a vaccum meter on it, and neither of my old w/g would hold vaccum. Additionally, I can pull the wastegate rod by hand, which was previously difficult to do.

Can you take a general picture of your engine bay, intercooler piping, and a close up of the turbo/downpipe/manifold area?

How are you measuring boost? What brand of boost gauge are you using and where is it connected to?

WEIRD o.O im still not satisfied with the consistency of the boost (will only hit 6.5psi instead of high7's) which means the w/g is still open partially but im glad i know exactly what it is, however not the question is how to go about unsticking it (as was stated above)

NO IT DOES NOT!
The difference between 6.5 or 7.5 or whatever is due to the accuracy of the boost gauge, and also the elevation of where you live and the weather temperature outside. Just because the wastegate is said to be set to 7psi from the factory, doesn't mean that you will get EXACTLY 7.0psi.

I will definately take pics of the engine bay ic piping etc. I am measuring boost by way of AEM tru boost. The Tru boost is not controlling anything at the moment, and is only connected to read PSI.
As far as the inaccurate reading I appreciate you clearing that part up for me! I was going by a number that was quite consistent from a certain period of time to it not being consistent at all, however it wont get that high anymore.

Put the stock wastegate back on.
Remove the boost controller and just connect the port from the turbo to the port on the wastegate together with some good quality 4mm fuel line hose. Then take the car for a ride an see if you can make anywhere from 5-8psi of boost. If you can, everything is working correctly and you need to then install your boost controller and set it up for more boost.

took the car out for a drive and it held to 3lbs then eventually dropped, and would not build boost at all eventually

Because you put some crazy aftermarket wastegate actuator on that was never meant to be used with this turbo and your flapper door is probably blowing open every time you boost.

The boost controller was not hooked to the turbo or wastegate until i broke the motor in I have always used the 4mm fuel line hose going from the turbo to the port on the wastegate, i have never messed with it or anything The car behaves in the exact same way as when I put the new wastegate on. boost goes to zero (no smoke, and all fins are intact on the turbo)

I DO hear a loud whirring noise when under load as if the car is spooling, I dont think it is a leak because Ive used the boost leak tester for the system and heard nothing.

I'll take some pics tonight. I really appreciate all the help!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Jun 6, 2012 - 2:48 PM

[batcavee00]

hey man, if you checked you wastegate and turbo and its working properly. them im almost 100% sure you got a leak somewhere. i was having trouble boosting a while back and i also tested for leaks and although i couldnt hear any i moved my hand around couplings and pipes and i felt a strong current of air coming from my BOV. and sure enough the o-ring connecting the bov to the bov flange wasnt sealing right. i bought a thicker o-ring and added silicone all around...


and... shhhhassssam! im boosting normally.....

i too was hearing a loud noise when i was spooling, but i didnt think it was a leak,...instead i was like: " man, this turbo spools loud..." lol
and now that the leak is gone, my spooling is not as loud as before with the leak

forgot to mention, i also tightened the arm on the internal wastegate a few more turns cause it was just snug..now its a bit tighter, to ensure a proper seal




i hope this helps........

This post has been edited by batcavee00: Jun 20, 2012 - 4:19 PM

[delusionz]

you might want to check that alloy plate from time to time as it may bend, i would have that piece made from steel and painted

[easternpiro1]

you might want to check that alloy plate from time to time as it may bend, i would have that piece made from steel and painted

oh its secured pretty thick, would be pretty hard for it to bend. Im going to remove the BOV and just put an aluminum pipe in its place and see what happens.

[delusionz]

in all my troubles with turbochargers and boost on the 3sgte, the problem has ALWAYS been too much boost.

when my original ct20b went out, it made a very loud whine like a dieing animal, and then it made 0 boost as the turbo shaft snapped somewhere in the centre cartridge,

my car has always been able to make atleast 10psi boost with the clamps undone so i highly doubt its "just a boost leak"

also, using a 3psi spring in a 44mm tial wastegate im still getting creep up to 10-12psi

sounds dumb, but did you overlook checking out both sides of the turbo? you spun one end freely, but did that equally spin the other end??? to me it seems theoretically impossible to make 0 boost short of not having the turbo hooked up at all

[spinout]

Have you tried using a boost leak tester, it's easy to make one.
Cheers: Dom

[easternpiro1]

in all my troubles with turbochargers and boost on the 3sgte, the problem has ALWAYS been too much boost.

when my original ct20b went out, it made a very loud whine like a dieing animal, and then it made 0 boost as the turbo shaft snapped somewhere in the centre cartridge,

my car has always been able to make atleast 10psi boost with the clamps undone so i highly doubt its "just a boost leak"

also, using a 3psi spring in a 44mm tial wastegate im still getting creep up to 10-12psi

sounds dumb, but did you overlook checking out both sides of the turbo? you spun one end freely, but did that equally spin the other end??? to me it seems theoretically impossible to make 0 boost short of not having the turbo hooked up at all

hey mate, I heard no loud whine, but I have checked my cold side and hot side before no shaft play, and both spun freely. some friend and i were kickin some ideas around and we believe my wastegate flap is staying open somehow. but there is no way to tell short of putting it on a dyno and putting it under load to see. I am going to take my downpipe off again to be SURE there is no play and in going to look at the fins on the hot side to be sure theyre not chipped or anything (which i doubt)

that new wastegate I have is VERY stiff, so i couldnt understand why i was still gettin no boost until a pal of mine said it may be so stiff that its just stuck in its position. so this is prompting me to take off my downpipe and look at the flap to see if it is open a crack, as he says this would cause me to build no boost EVEN if its just open slightly

Have you tried using a boost leak tester, it's easy to make one.
Cheers: Dom

thanks dom, yeah i used a home made boost leak tester and put it on the intake side of the turbo, i only turned it up to like 3-5 psi but i heard no leaking air its looking like this is either turbo or flapper issue

[batcavee00]

testing for leak at 3-5 psi wont do much for you. i too was testing with low pressure, but as soon as i started checking at 15psi i started finding a bunch of leaks everywhere. im still having boost issues myself. for some reason i cant got past 11psi on my t3t4 turbo.... =/

[easternpiro1]

this is true, but im afraid to test any higher gonig into the turbo as it may blow the seals. however i do plan on testing the pipes again at higher pressure did u fix ur leak?

[batcavee00]

Don't worry just test right after the turbo and right before the throttle. I fixed all my leaks but I can't go past 11psi. I think my downpipe might ght be the problem, its kinda crappy.....lol

[easternpiro1]

quick update...

I took off the BOV and replaced it with straight pipe, still no boost, so BOV is fine...

I checked both sides of the turbo wheel spins fine, wastegate flap was closed and not stuck open or hung on anything.

to be SURE no leaks were in my system i took of my intercooler, filled it with water, and saw no leaks.
I took off ic piping at the throttle body, and capped it off on the other end. NO leaks in IC piping (tested pressure at 40psi)


UGH. so i guess it is a bad turbo. TOTALLY PERPLEXED as to WHY when i didnt mess with the damn thing...

I can go two routes:

1. use my other ct20b (which has been sitting for a WHILE and has the hotside separated from the compressor)

2. use my T3/4 and external wastegate (which i would RATHER sell and NOT use)

going to take off the turbo and try to use my ct20b hopefully it sitting for so long with the exhaust wheel out hasn't done anything...

[easternpiro1]

update:
taking the car to a friend's dyno, going to try to determine exactly where the boost leak is coming from before removing the turbo....

[playr158]

Good Luck buddy!
Sucks that its taking so much work to figure it out
will be interested in seeing what eventually is the cause

[easternpiro1]

thanks Dan! I found out what it was, and as I feared, it IS a bad turbo.... I just wanted to be SURE.

took the downpipe off, put it on the dyno at my friend's shop, and held the flap in manually to be sure it was not a bad flap or w/g...

[playr158]

WHY YOU HAZA NO BOOSTA

[SwissFerdi]

^ He no bũsta.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Sep 4, 2012 - 4:25 PM

[easternpiro1]

MAN. this is frustrating.... I took the manifold off... checked everything. even used my old manifold... come to find out my old ct20b is clocked and I could not put it on at the time as it was facing downward, and i have no piping for that configuration.

I will have a friend show me how to re clock the turbo back to where it was, and put it in. IDK if the turbo is good as it has been sitting for like 5 years.... but if im still having the problem i will be selling this god damned car along with every piece of upgrade i have for it. or trading it for something.

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 7, 2012 - 4:01 PM

[3WayStunna]

MAN. this is frustrating.... I took the manifold off... checked everything. even used my old manifold... come to find out my old ct20b is clocked and I could not put it on at the time as it was facing downward, and i have no piping for that configuration.

I will have a friend show me how to re clock the turbo back to where it was, and put it in. IDK if the turbo is good as it has been sitting for like 5 years.... but if im still having the problem i will be selling this god damned car along with every piece of upgrade i have for it. or trading it for something.

Dont give in to the frustration mang!

[easternpiro1]

thanks for the encouragement bro, but seriously... this is absolutely ridiculous.... I'll keep pushing... but if this continues it will be in the fs/ft thread lol

[easternpiro1]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...mp;#entry987070


Fond the leak! lol

[SwissFerdi]

"I used cigarillos."

You don't say...

Glad you found the leak, engine at 100% now?

[lagos]

So where was the leak at?

[easternpiro1]

"I used cigarillos."

You don't say...

Glad you found the leak, engine at 100% now?

lol dont get too excited there about those cigarillos buddy... I see your avatar! lol

So where was the leak at?

sorry guys, didnt update after I FULLY inspected where the leak was coming from. when i orginally posted that i found it, i saw steady smoke coming from the area of the IC piping routed under the fuse box (right by the wheel well) I didnt have time to jack the car up and look on the underside until the next day when I had another set of hands/eyes to help me out pumping the air in.

Here is what happened:

I jacked it up and saw that the smoke seemed to originally be comign from piping.

upon further inspection I noticed that a coupler (which was in an IMPOSSIBLE PLACE btw) WAS FRAYED ON THE EDGE cool! this is where the leak is coming from i figured...

I placed the IC Piping back on and jacked the car up and asked my gf to hold the air pump onto the vaccum line coming from the BOV.

I saw that smoke was coming from the air filter and not from the coupler like i thought. I felt like an ass... the video posted on here about that smoke test didnt account for covering up the filter and i completely forgot about it!

so next I will cover up the filter area and try again..... If this dosent work I will Unclock my other CT20b and put it on. If my car is STILL not boosting I will be selling it, this is apparently WAY over my head or im missing something.

What was weird was that after all this, when i started the car, two things happened: 1. it idled at 2k 2. my RPM gauge no longer worked (this is after i moved the fuse box to get to the piping) Cam told me that that shouldnt affect my idle because my tach addapter is next to the ECU INSIDE the car.

Im honestly beginning to think this is an electrical issue... but due to my limited Experience I'm not sure how this can be so.


Lagos, thanks for all the advice! I honestly dont know what to do at this point... the most knowledgeable person nearby absolutely hates my car lol, and for all the research and tricks ive tried to fix this problem, im just about out of ideas

[lagos]

It needs less ideas and more of your hands under the hood!

[easternpiro1]

It needs less ideas and more of your hands under the hood!

lol thats what Ive been doing! this weekend Im putting the spare ct in, have to un clock it.

[easternpiro1]

ANOTHER update: Ive inspected my turbo, and come to find out there is nothing wrong with it. A friend checked over it and confirmed, and insists that im loosing boost through a crack in a pipe or silicone coupler....

I will take off all IC piping again, and hopefully he can weld some of it to eliminate chances of more foolishness.


I meant to show the video of my wastegate while the car was on the dyno here it is: http://youtu.be/XQ95DchrUV4

[Soulend]

whoa, weird looking wastegate... what gen engine is that off of?

[easternpiro1]

whoa, weird looking wastegate... what gen engine is that off of?

4th gen st215

[pitcelica]

We can clearly hear the turbo spooling. So, I'm with your friend about the leak on the cold side. Check all your intercooler piping/joints. This is weird that a simple boost leak test do not reveal anything...

Good luck!

Sam

[easternpiro1]

thanks sam!! also i wanted to mention (not sure if i did) but my idle is VERY stragne, goes to 500 then hovers around 800-9 at times... when I cruise my AFR goes off the chart to WAY lean (18afr) and the car stutters would the boost leak attribute to this?

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Oct 10, 2012 - 2:28 PM

[playr158]

Boost or vaccum leak yes.....is your intakr manifold tight and sealed!?

[easternpiro1]

you know what? I was thinking about that the other day, I have an oil leak back there somewhere... i wonder if its worked its way back there, and mucked things up? I was so focused on the other areas (since i never went near the intake manifold) that it never really crossed my mind... Is this possible?

[easternpiro1]

quick update, after eyeballing my vacuum lines again, I found a hole about the width of a #2 pencil in a vacuum hose leading to my throttle body from my intake... I cut the hose below the hole and hooked it back up.... still no boost. my car is reading -6 vac when I am on it full throttle.



I also checked my intake manifold and it seems secure. I will take my valve cover off and check from the top as I see traces of oil on my fuel rail and dripping a bit from under my intake manifold.... possibly this oil leak has something to do with it?

[Smaay]

you are reading -6 inHg at WOT? dude there is something wrong! on an NA car at WOT you should read 0. so thats telling me that your gauge is not calibrated. what does it say when the engine is not running?

[easternpiro1]

you are reading -6 inHg at WOT? dude there is something wrong! on an NA car at WOT you should read 0. so thats telling me that your gauge is not calibrated. what does it say when the engine is not running?

man honestly I dont remember what It says when not running. I will def check tomorrow. my gauge is Teed into a line going to my intake manifold, Its a Tru boost EBC but it is not hooked up to control boost yet. I was running off of stock wastegate pressure (which initially read 8psi)

[lagos]

you are reading -6 inHg at WOT? dude there is something wrong! on an NA car at WOT you should read 0. so thats telling me that your gauge is not calibrated. what does it say when the engine is not running?

man honestly I dont remember what It says when not running. I will def check tomorrow. my gauge is Teed into a line going to my intake manifold, Its a Tru boost EBC but it is not hooked up to control boost yet. I was running off of stock wastegate pressure (which initially read 8psi)

Matt... I think 80% of this "issue" is your boost gauge.
Smaay is right, if your turbo was somehow bad, missing, etc.. you would at the very least reach 0psi on the gauge.

[playr158]

Get yourself a nice VDO boostgauge, not expensive but work flawlessly

[easternpiro1]

you are reading -6 inHg at WOT? dude there is something wrong! on an NA car at WOT you should read 0. so thats telling me that your gauge is not calibrated. what does it say when the engine is not running?

man honestly I dont remember what It says when not running. I will def check tomorrow. my gauge is Teed into a line going to my intake manifold, Its a Tru boost EBC but it is not hooked up to control boost yet. I was running off of stock wastegate pressure (which initially read 8psi)

Matt... I think 80% of this "issue" is your boost gauge.
Smaay is right, if your turbo was somehow bad, missing, etc.. you would at the very least reach 0psi on the gauge.

I will definitelly be inspecting the gauge this weekend ill look into resetting it and checking the line that leads to it. will let yall know what happens this wkend!

[Smaay]

is it electric or mechanical? if its electric, it need to be hooked up to 12V that does not turn off when you turn the key to start.

[easternpiro1]

is it electric or mechanical? if its electric, it need to be hooked up to 12V that does not turn off when you turn the key to start.

its electric. you mean dosent turn off when the car is turned on? or when it the key is turned on to the ACC stage?

[playr158]

get a good ol'mechanical!

[Smaay]

is it electric or mechanical? if its electric, it need to be hooked up to 12V that does not turn off when you turn the key to start.

its electric. you mean dosent turn off when the car is turned on? or when it the key is turned on to the ACC stage?

no when you turn the key to START 90% of your electronics shut off. you need to find a source that does NOT turn OFF when you turn the key to START

[easternpiro1]

is it electric or mechanical? if its electric, it need to be hooked up to 12V that does not turn off when you turn the key to start.

its electric. you mean dosent turn off when the car is turned on? or when it the key is turned on to the ACC stage?

no when you turn the key to START 90% of your electronics shut off. you need to find a source that does NOT turn OFF when you turn the key to START

ah ok it stays on BUT guess what? Leak found on hot side (right after turbo and a smaller one found on cold side (not too far before the BOV)


Cant believe after testing, re testing taking off, readjusting etc. etc. it was here... where I started my search.... IDK why the previous tests didnt show the leak coming from here but Im hoping this is the cause of my trouble. I re adjusted the piping again, and noticed that my car drove at -2 in vac this time instead of -5 or -6 but eventually it went back to -6. I will be getting as much piping welded as I can when my pal gets another welding machine.

I dont want to get my hopes up though....

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Dec 11, 2012 - 3:21 AM

[easternpiro1]

here's video sorry for the motion.


cold side boost leak


this is the larger leak....

hot side leak

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Dec 11, 2012 - 4:06 AM

[Soulend]

Video is set to private?...

but good to hear you got it figured out. I know this has been a long time coming.

Kevin

[easternpiro1]

Video is set to private?...

but good to hear you got it figured out. I know this has been a long time coming.

Kevin

fixed

[Smaay]

glad you figured it out! its always satisfying when you figure stuff out.

[easternpiro1]

glad you figured it out! its always satisfying when you figure stuff out.

amen to that! Im really hoping that this is what it has been... thanks for the troubleshooting help everyone! will post an update when I can get the piping welded. were you able to see the vid?

[lagos]

Don't forget that it still sounds like your boost gauge is not working correctly.

On a positive note, your motor sounds nice and healthy!

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 11, 2012 - 3:04 PM

[easternpiro1]

Don't forget that it still sounds like your boost gauge is not working correctly.

On a positive note, your motor sounds nice and healthy!

thanks lagos! Other than the line thats Tee'd into my intake/BOV from the EBC being too long, what should I check for? IIRC it stays on when I start the car, and the loose fitment of the plug that goes into the back of the gauge was solved (i believe it was loose...)

[lagos]

Don't forget that it still sounds like your boost gauge is not working correctly.

On a positive note, your motor sounds nice and healthy!

what should I check for?

You should find a gauge that goes to at least zero psi when you floor it in 3rd gear, and also that it returns back to 0 when you turn off the car.

What boost gauge is it?

[easternpiro1]

Don't forget that it still sounds like your boost gauge is not working correctly.

On a positive note, your motor sounds nice and healthy!

what should I check for?

You should find a gauge that goes to at least zero psi when you floor it in 3rd gear, and also that it returns back to 0 when you turn off the car.

What boost gauge is it?

AEM tru boost EBC

[lagos]

Don't forget that it still sounds like your boost gauge is not working correctly.

On a positive note, your motor sounds nice and healthy!

what should I check for?

You should find a gauge that goes to at least zero psi when you floor it in 3rd gear, and also that it returns back to 0 when you turn off the car.

What boost gauge is it?

AEM tru boost EBC

Sounds complicated. You probably have a setting wrong or something. Did you read through the owners manual to make sure its setup correctly?

[easternpiro1]

yeah, Its not actually hooked up to any boost lines to control anything yet. I have the instructions on video via Youtube, so i will go over it again to be sure, but im pretty sure it was ok as it was accurately reading just wastegate pressure before the leak

[lagos]

yeah, Its not actually hooked up to any boost lines to control anything yet. I have the instructions on video via Youtube, so i will go over it again to be sure, but im pretty sure it was ok as it was accurately reading just wastegate pressure before the leak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...geWatdb4#t=158s

Are you set on PSI, BAR or KPA?

There is also a setting there for internal or external map sensor, depending if you are running 1-29psi or 1-50psi. If this is set wrong, your gauge would read lower than it should.

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 12, 2012 - 4:51 PM

[easternpiro1]

yeah, Its not actually hooked up to any boost lines to control anything yet. I have the instructions on video via Youtube, so i will go over it again to be sure, but im pretty sure it was ok as it was accurately reading just wastegate pressure before the leak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...geWatdb4#t=158s

Are you set on PSI, BAR or KPA?

There is also a setting there for internal or external map sensor, depending if you are running 1-29psi or 1-50psi. If this is set wrong, your gauge would read lower than it should.

im set to PSI. and im assuming as far as settings for map sensor internal is the way i will be going as i will not be running more than 29PSI

I plan on keeping the PSI level at 15 until I have the water/meth in, then I will adjust further. How did you set yours according to your water/meth setup?

[lagos]

yeah, Its not actually hooked up to any boost lines to control anything yet. I have the instructions on video via Youtube, so i will go over it again to be sure, but im pretty sure it was ok as it was accurately reading just wastegate pressure before the leak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...geWatdb4#t=158s

Are you set on PSI, BAR or KPA?

There is also a setting there for internal or external map sensor, depending if you are running 1-29psi or 1-50psi. If this is set wrong, your gauge would read lower than it should.

im set to PSI. and im assuming as far as settings for map sensor internal is the way i will be going as i will not be running more than 29PSI

CHECK to see what its set to right now. If its set incorrectly, it would explain why you are not seeing at least 0psi.

[easternpiro1]

definitely... will be sure tomorrow eve.

[easternpiro1]

hey everybody, finally found someone to help me out welding my IC piping to eliminate all the couplers I had (and the ones that were leaking)

Lagos: I have come to the conclusion that the gauge is working properly after i inspected all connections and lines leading to it.

Unfortunately elimiating 5 couplers by welding didnt do the trick (though i was able to get to at least 2inches of vacuum now instead of 6 which definitely leads me to believe my turbo has taken a Shat. I suppose internal seals failed. I dead headed the turbo and placed a gauge on the outlet. when i gave it gas it only made about 4psi at 5k rpm. I understand the motor should be under load but the turbo should be performing better than that.

I will be replacing it and putting on another CT20b this weekend hopefully.


will let you all know what happens!




This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Jan 23, 2013 - 10:57 PM

[easternpiro1]

.

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Jan 28, 2013 - 10:34 PM

[easternpiro1]

before switching the turbos I decided to test the turbo by "dead heading" it and inserting a pressure gauge measuring in PSI. some say the turbo needs to have load on it however even standing still should it not be blowing out more pressure?

turbo test

[Smaay]

where is your boost gauge connected to? at idle you should be getting 18-20 inHG not 2 to 6.

[lagos]

before switching the turbos I decided to test the turbo by "dead heading" it and inserting a pressure gauge measuring in PSI. some say the turbo needs to have load on it however even standing still should it not be blowing out more pressure?

turbo test

Matt, the thing about this test is that there is no load on the engine. You are really not supposed to be able to build any boost this way. I bet I would get exactly the same results if I did this on my car and my turbo works fine.

[pitcelica]

Lagos is right on this one. The test you've done is useless. At free-revving, there isn't enough exhaust air flow to drive the turbine at a high enough RPM to build boost on the compressor side. Also, a turbo isn't a positive displacement pump. Unlike a roots supercharger where there is always the same volume of air forced into the supercharger, it's not because a compressor is doing a revolution that a certain amount of air will be force into the compressor outlet. It takes a lot of turbo RPM to build boost o the compressor outlet side.

I can't beleive you have not ruled out this problem yet. I'm not saying that you didn't try hard enough, you certainly did. But I'm sure you missed something really basic. A turbocharger isn't something that is really complicated. I suggest you to go back to the base. Do a boost pressure test from the turbo compressor. Be sure to block off the IAC inlet. Verify that you can get at least 30 PSI in this test.

The other test is to verify that the wastegate stay shut and that all the exhaust airflow actually pass through the turbine.

Then, physically verify that turning the turbine result into a compressor revolution and make sure that the shaft is turning freely. Verify that the turbine wheel is in OK shape (no bent/broken blades).

If all those points are ruled out, there is no physical reason for this turbo to not boost.

Are you sure your boost gauge is accurate and correctly connected to the intake manifold. It should read about -19 inHG at idle, 0 psi when the engine is off. Verify if it is correctly displaying a boost event using a mityvac or compressed air (be sure to use a pressure regulator and set it at around 25 PSI).

Do not give up!

Sam

[easternpiro1]

before switching the turbos I decided to test the turbo by "dead heading" it and inserting a pressure gauge measuring in PSI. some say the turbo needs to have load on it however even standing still should it not be blowing out more pressure?

turbo test

Matt, the thing about this test is that there is no load on the engine. You are really not supposed to be able to build any boost this way. I bet I would get exactly the same results if I did this on my car and my turbo works fine.

I figured as much and i knew better! lol did it anyway to make sure. I remember when sitting still on my previous swap, i could rev the engine and there would be Blow off. It no longer does it.

Lagos is right on this one. The test you've done is useless. At free-revving, there isn't enough exhaust air flow to drive the turbine at a high enough RPM to build boost on the compressor side. Also, a turbo isn't a positive displacement pump. Unlike a roots supercharger where there is always the same volume of air forced into the supercharger, it's not because a compressor is doing a revolution that a certain amount of air will be force into the compressor outlet. It takes a lot of turbo RPM to build boost o the compressor outlet side.

I can't beleive you have not ruled out this problem yet. I'm not saying that you didn't try hard enough, you certainly did. But I'm sure you missed something really basic. A turbocharger isn't something that is really complicated. I suggest you to go back to the base. Do a boost pressure test from the turbo compressor. Be sure to block off the IAC inlet. Verify that you can get at least 30 PSI in this test.

The other test is to verify that the wastegate stay shut and that all the exhaust airflow actually pass through the turbine.

Then, physically verify that turning the turbine result into a compressor revolution and make sure that the shaft is turning freely. Verify that the turbine wheel is in OK shape (no bent/broken blades).

If all those points are ruled out, there is no physical reason for this turbo to not boost.

Are you sure your boost gauge is accurate and correctly connected to the intake manifold. It should read about -19 inHG at idle, 0 psi when the engine is off. Verify if it is correctly displaying a boost event using a mityvac or compressed air (be sure to use a pressure regulator and set it at around 25 PSI).

Do not give up!

Sam

thanks for the vote of confidence sam! I have done almost everything at least twice.

I will do another boost pressure test as last time I didnt run it THROUGH the turbo compressor I took the piping off of the turbo and pressurized from beginning of piping to end. (I was told I would ruin the turbo if too much PSI was put through it)

I took the turbo off (even separating it from the manifold) and spun it while inspecting all areas smoothly without touching the housing. all looks good on the fins as well

boost gauge reads 0 when car is off however when at idle it fluctuates from -14HG to -16 and has gotten as low as -12 at times.

as far as the IAC is concerned, I do notice that the car will idle strangely (drop in RPM from 1000 to 800, and at times feels like it wants to cut off) After fixing a hole in the hose nest to the IAC there is still some trouble, but I will clean the IAC with brake cleaner to be sure.

Im fairly certain that the WG is closed and that the flapper is ok as I have placed the car on a dyno without downpipe to inspect it and hold it closed

wastegate/dyno


again thanks for all your help guys! I will keep trying!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Feb 15, 2013 - 7:14 PM

[Smaay]

guys its not measured in negative numbers. its measured in inches of mercury which is considered a vacuum. if you made it negative then its considered boost. make sense?

now 14 to 16 is pretty low and 12 is really low. have you done a compression test?

[easternpiro1]

guys its not measured in negative numbers. its measured in inches of mercury which is considered a vacuum. if you made it negative then its considered boost. make sense?

now 14 to 16 is pretty low and 12 is really low. have you done a compression test?

I havent done one since the problem started, its not often on 12 but consistently 15-16