95 celica ST 7afe engine swap to Beams 3sge Options

[foshojerry]

Hello, i am planning to do a small project engine swap on my 95 Celica ST from the US. I see lots of Forums that indicated on a 3SGTE swap into the 6 gen ST, yet i have many doubts on the technicality of the swap due to several problems: replacing transmission, engine mounts replacement, shift cable, smog emission regulation, maintenance!, etc. I then look at other engine option swap like Silvertop 4age 20 valve engine but it is only 160hp. What i want relatively out of this engine swap project is to have "minimal" problems and yet "reliable/powerful". I was looking at the 200hp Beams 3SGE economical natural aspirated engine and sure looks tempting. Several questions: i see many forums on swapping the Beams into their "GT" model which has all the right mounting and assembly in compatibility for the swap. I know on the ST, the engine mounts are totally different. Has anyone done this kind of swap in their ST? Will a fully healthy Beams engine ship from Japan pass US smog regulations? If so, what are the crucial points i need to watch out for and what parts do i need to replace? I am also turning the automatic into a manual as well. (If i am going to go into this project, "i will be getting a full front clip with manual transmission imported here"). If i get the full front clip i have all the parts and mounts for the picking! Well any body out there that can help me out on this topic i am greatly appreciative! I LOVE MY CELICA and kept it in awesome conditon, i will post some pictures up when i get a chance.

[enderswift]

In my opinion the beams swap is no less technically involved than a gte swap. They are both s-series block and you will therefore run into the same problem with the mounts.Furthermore an st celica would need a new transmission no matter which engine you go with.

Beams engines were never sold in the states and do not have obd II wired in. This means that it wont pass smog. The most common way around this is to swap a pre '95 celica, since those don't need to be emissions tested.

[foshojerry]

In my opinion the beams swap is no less technically involved than a gte swap. They are both s-series block and you will therefore run into the same problem with the mounts.Furthermore an st celica would need a new transmission no matter which engine you go with.

Beams engines were never sold in the states and do not have obd II wired in. This means that it wont pass smog. The most common way around this is to swap a pre '95 celica, since those don't need to be emissions tested.

[foshojerry]

sorry new user, learning how to reply, i see..the obd 2 situation, the transmission, enderswift what do you mean by the "pre-95s" you mean the 94, if so, why doesn't the pre-95s need to be emission tested?

[enderswift]

1996 was the year all manufacturers were required to switch to obd II, which is just a computer system for monitoring emissions. Any car that was built without obd II is exempt from emissions testing because all of the testing facilities don't have the obd I equipment anymore. So if you're really concerned about emissions you need to buy a 94 or a 95 and swap a motor into that.

I just saw you have a '95 haha. You're fine to swap whatever you want. I would look up the beams threads that richee3, njccmd2002, and richochet1409 made; they did a good job documenting what's involved so your best bet is to start there

This post has been edited by enderswift: May 24, 2012 - 10:12 PM

[foshojerry]

i see thank you for that info, hmm i do though have a 95, any suggestions on which transmission that can swap along? notice though i will buy a full front clip manual transmission included, why must i not use that? sorry just a day fresh looking into this swap info.

[foshojerry]

thank you again, makes more sense

[enderswift]

If you buy a clip then you can use its transmission no problem

[mkernz22]

Welcome to the forum, first off. Secondly, definitely search for some of the 3sge swap threads, there are a few. The transmission that comes with it is perfectly suitable for the car. You will only need 3 of the 4 engine mounts because the drivers side one is the same between GT and ST. You will need to get GT engine mounts for the passenger side, and the front and rear mounts as well as the GT cross member.

[foshojerry]

niiice, things are looking good so far, sure will look into those threads, this is awesome, i say U.S. 1000$ to hire a mechanic to do this swap, please comment, and thank you mkrenz22

This post has been edited by foshojerry: May 24, 2012 - 10:36 PM

[mkernz22]

It's probably going to be a lot more than $1000 for the job if you have a mechanic do it.

[foshojerry]

guesstimated price?

[mkernz22]

I couldn't tell you. Most places won't do swaps like this anyway.

[foshojerry]

is it because of legal and technical issues? hmmm, ask a friend to borrow a crane and tools and maybe maybe i will convince someone to help me out...whoomp whoomp...

[mkernz22]

I'm honestly not sure, they usually only swap the same engine if one is bad. It's really not that hard of a process if you read up on how to do it

[ricochet1490]

In my opinion the beams swap is no less technically involved than a gte swap. They are both s-series block and you will therefore run into the same problem with the mounts.Furthermore an st celica would need a new transmission no matter which engine you go with.

Beams engines were never sold in the states and do not have obd II wired in. This means that it wont pass smog. The most common way around this is to swap a pre '95 celica, since those don't need to be emissions tested.

my beams clip i'm pretty sure has OBD2... just saying...

[Smaay]

first off OP, why dont you get more specific on your location rather than USA. If you are in California you will NEVER get a BEAMS to pass smog. that engine was never offered in a car in the USA so it will never pass. and like mentioned a BEAMS will be no different technically than a 3S-GTE and it will be much harder to find parts for it. If you really want to do a good reliable swap that makes more than 200HP, look into a V6 swap. Either a 1MZ or 3MZ. there are more and more of these being done now.

[ricochet1490]

Bonzai lives in CA, how did he and the original owner of the car get it to pass smog?

Edit: I don't mean to thread jack, but it's a relevant question I think

This post has been edited by ricochet1490: May 25, 2012 - 12:22 AM

[kurt95gt]

Do none obd2 cars neex to pass smog in cali?
an if they do isnt like a one time thing when you first buy the car?

[foshojerry]

good points whoomp whoomp, can't pass smog spec and hard to find parts, hmmmm please need to know what sets of parts to be more specific are they "hard to find" for example maintenance parts like belt replacements, bearings.... Everything else seems universal to change for maintenance and definitely correct me if this isn't so. Yet the smog i have to question this: Since i know that the beams engine has the obd2 and does not pass smog in US regulation (correct me if i am wrong), and does the 95 year really matter are all in the mix. Good point with the v6 yet i heard not say it is that: you can't do an engine swap that is no greater in # of cylinders from its original state of model make can't swap a 6 when original is a 4 (regulations again). i live in Los Angeles California

This post has been edited by foshojerry: May 25, 2012 - 12:55 AM

[richee3]

The BEAMS does have OBDII but forget about ever using it. No US scanner can read the Japanese signals. The BEAMS will never pass any US emissions, period. As far as swapping a BEAMS vs a 3S-GTE, it's 95% the same process but you end up with less power. The BEAMS is definitely a fun engine to have, and I feel like its how the Celica should have felt from the factory. However, given that you have an ST and swapping will take quite a bit of work, I'd follow Smaay's 1MZ swap advice. It'll be about the same amount of work but you'll have loads more torque, still have N/A reliability, and be able to walk into any parts store and get exactly what you need.

This post has been edited by richee3: May 25, 2012 - 8:56 AM

[CAcelica29]

Bonzai lives in CA, how did he and the original owner of the car get it to pass smog?

Edit: I don't mean to thread jack, but it's a relevant question I think

probably the same way alot of swaps are done in california......they know the guy at the smog place and pay alot!

[Smaay]

i live in Lancaster CA, about 30 miles north of you, yes you can swap a V6 into a celica, im in the middle of it right now. the cylinders doesnt matter as long as it came from a car in the US and the engine is newer than the car. im putting a 2002 solara engine in my 97 celica. that is legal. I can not put a 95 V6 from a camry in. As for Bonzai i dont know how he legally got away with that. maybe some $$$ was involved.

back to the OP, if you want some help with your swap which ever you choose. there are some good people in LA area familiar with swaps. myself included.



This post has been edited by Smaay: May 25, 2012 - 11:24 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

Bonzai lives in CA, how did he and the original owner of the car get it to pass smog?

Edit: I don't mean to thread jack, but it's a relevant question I think

ya thats right I had to pass it. not the member who did the swap, he never had to deal with smog.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82764&hl=

shouldn't this be sticked^^^^

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 25, 2012 - 3:05 PM

[foshojerry]

The dream of having a jdm engine is fading quickly, thank you smaay and others for some great suggestions and info, so if i consider a 1MZ v6 from a 96 and up (camry/solara)...i start off with: getting a strip unit engine, getting a ecu, how will the mounting brackets go, transmission change (****auto to manual**** big question mark on this because what manual transmission should i get that out of), how about any sensor wiring that needs to be replaced or reincorporated from original, how about output piping (leading from the headers to exaust), i will follow up on your swap Smaay and relook into the 1mz swap, IF its legal/powerful/reliable!! then i am fine, the only small sacrifice is gas consumption. When i am done doing the homework i will make sure to hit you up smaay or anybody near where i live who had done this swap and can help me out and get compensated.

[Smaay]

well first off, if your celica is an auto then it will be a little more difficult no matter what engine you go with. but if you have a 5 speed then you are good to go. you have several options.

option 1: use the stock celica GT tranny (S54) it will bolt right up to the 1MZ. 3 of the engine mounts are on the trans so all you need is a passenger mount, i know this guy that makes them look at my thread. this is the cheapest route and you can use your stock axles, you just need to figure out a way for the bearing carrier, luckily i know this guy again

option 2: use the stock 5 speed that comes in the camry/solara. that is an e153 and if you do a little research you will discover that it happens to be the strongest 5 speed trans that toyota ever built. (same that im using) yes the solaras came with 5 speeds. if you do use that trans then you need to get the ST205 (GT4) rear and drivers side engine mount, the front mount is the same for the S54. here you will need to figure out what axle to use, ill let you know when i figure it out myself.

wiring you can have done by http://216.199.72.202/index.html for 400 bucks he will convert your celica and solara harness into the perfect combination.

im going to try my hardest to get this done by the MOTY meet http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82163 but since you are somewhat local, you are welcome to come up and see the work in progress

[enderswift]

The BEAMS does have OBDII but forget about ever using it.

it does? O.o

My clip didn't come with an obII connecter, it just had the diagnostic port in the engine bay.

[foshojerry]

Good stuff Smaay, koo koo i will hit you up when i get a chance and check out your ride, i will follow up, enderswift> your clip doesn't have ob2? Where did you get that clip, very curious of what year also

[enderswift]

Good stuff Smaay, koo koo i will hit you up when i get a chance and check out your ride, i will follow up, enderswift> your clip doesn't have ob2? Where did you get that clip, very curious of what year also

I had a '98 gt4 clip imported by jdmengineworld. great guys

[kurt95gt]

Look up my thread to while your at it
Im in the process of getting my 1mz running right
Mr220v does an amazing job on these harness
I dont think youll find a better mout the will fot sure work with the celica like smaays
The s54 feels good with the 1mz
Southbend clutch will make a clutch that will work with the v6 flywheel an the s54 trans
Goodluck with whatever you deside

[foshojerry]

hard getting a s54 manual transmission to find for sale...whoomp whoomp

[mkernz22]

hard getting a s54 manual transmission to find for sale...whoomp whoomp

It comes with the 3sge more than half the time....

[foshojerry]

my mistake the e153 manual, the axel, dun dun dun

[ricochet1490]

hard getting a s54 manual transmission to find for sale...whoomp whoomp

my mistake the e153 manual, the axel, dun dun dun

Your choice of words is interesting.... lol