A new beginning... Options

[FWD-3SGTE]

Sup members?

I wanted to get my thread going even though I can't post pictures right this moment, but I figurerd I'd lay down a small story at least.

The story goes, I recently threw a bucket shim in the head in my 2nd gen 3sgte motor about 3 weeks ago, soon after that, I decided, that was the sign to end the current project and start a new one like I've been wanting to do for a while now. I then came across Pipes and his GT4 clone shell for sale. So, I picked up the shell and now I begin my new journey

I'm not sure what my goals are for the car but I will keep this thread alive with thoughts and questions for sure! I can't wait to get your input and for you to see my output. Gosh I am excited!!!

Stay tuned!

This post has been edited by FWD-3SGTE: Jul 5, 2012 - 3:12 AM

[UtahSleeper]

If you build this car like you built the 5th gen, it will look great!

Good luck on the build and get us those pics

[FWD-3SGTE]

Alright, here they are, lots-o-pics! As you can see, I can be a quick worker, expecially after watching a few episodes of Overhaulin'


























In The Geerage...





















Parts in theee basement... some are from my 5th gen though



















Oh and my favorite part about deconstruction of older cars... breaking bolts!










Although, out of all the stuff I removed so far, I haven't broken too many, a few close calls but nothing more than a few 10mm bolts snapped!



This post has been edited by FWD-3SGTE: Jul 8, 2012 - 5:38 AM

[njccmd2002]

hate those bolts breaking.

is this pipes old car.

Its a converted GT4 right?

[SwissFerdi]

White wheels are tasty. Good luck.

[FWD-3SGTE]

hate those bolts breaking.

is this pipes old car.

Its a converted GT4 right?

Correct

White wheels are tasty. Good luck.

Thanks Swiss! It's odd though, my wheels won't clear the 4pots up front. They need at least a 7-8mm spacer even though they are +35 on the offset. Pipes old wheels were +35 offset but his wheels are 8" wide even though I didn't think width mattered, must be the spoke design?

[rave2n]

Woah, gutted that beast!

[FWD-3SGTE]

I like starting fresh

[Anoroc]

though I didn't think width mattered, must be the spoke design?

Exactly that!

Had a heap of trouble finding wheels that'd clear them

[FWD-3SGTE]

though I didn't think width mattered, must be the spoke design?

Exactly that!

Had a heap of trouble finding wheels that'd clear them

Yeah, that might be a challenge

I'm also now on the fence of the orignal wheel that I wanted, too heavy at 23lbs?

[SwissFerdi]

Yeah, 23 lbs is quite heavy for a wheel (you're restoring it as FWD?).

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jul 10, 2012 - 8:02 AM

[FWD-3SGTE]

Yeah, 23 lbs is quite heavy for a wheel (you're restoring it as FWD?).

No, I'm going to keep it AWD.

[lagos]

Looks like it went to a good home. Good luck!

[SwissFerdi]

Yeah, 23 lbs is quite heavy for a wheel (you're restoring it as FWD?).

No, I'm going to keep it AWD.

Then I have no idea how the system will deal with it, but I still say go with a lighter wheel.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jul 10, 2012 - 5:43 PM

[FWD-3SGTE]

Thanks lagos!

I don't know either Swiss, I really have my eye on a set and am probably just worrying for no reason

[FWD-3SGTE]

Well, I made some good progress today! The car is almost down to bare chassis, all wiring is out, rear subframe/suspension has been removed along with the gas tank, steering rack, sunroof and hatch! Next step is to finish cutting out the spare tire well, sorry Pipes, I hate to do it because I'm sure I won't find another one in RHD but I've decided to run a fuel cell.

Here are a few pictures...







Transmission has been acquired thanks to presure2!!



Not sure if this part can be replaced but worse case I can bang 'er out...







Fresh shots of the bay and inside/outside...









This post has been edited by FWD-3SGTE: Jul 14, 2012 - 11:13 PM

[mak5603]

Wow, awesome project! You've got a lot of work ahead of you. At the moment you planning on just getting it back in clean working order?

Its kind of funny, the underside of my GT4 hood looks the EXACT same way, even still white, haha.

Good luck on the project man, what kind of time frame you thinking?

[FWD-3SGTE]

I'm not sure of the exact plans but I wanted to keep it more subtle than my 184. I still want to do a 4pt cage in the rear, fuel cell instead of the low hanging stock tank, some sort of suspension upgrading, stock GT4 brakes will do and I'm not sure on the motor though, 3sgte or supercharged 1mz/3mz?

Time frame? I would love to have it together and drivable by the spring time but who knows. I don't like to set "finish dates" anymore because they always fall through

[rave2n]

Progress!

This thread delivers =)

[kurt95gt]

2gr turbo!!!!!
Or a sc 3mz lol

V6 gt4 ftw!

[FWD-3SGTE]

The "mz" motor was definitely in mind, I'm pretty sure it bolts up to the E154F trans, correct? I think a supercharger would be pretty fly, something different and something I've never had. I have never read anything about the "gr" motors, are they "easily" swappable or as difficult as trying to swap in a 2jz?

[kurt95gt]

Mz will bolt to any trans the 3s
You can use a stock 3s flywheel an clutch kits

The wiring will be a nightmare on any of them so if your not good with wiring is suggest sending to someone that is lol
The only thing you should have to do custom is a pass (in your case drivers ) side motor mount
An if you wanna spend the money smaay makes them

Once the rest of my celica is ready is love to super charge my 1mz
Tons of power all the way through
An with Awd it could be a lot of fun all that off the line torque an no slip .

[Ted95]

dude, i knew i seen those white wheels before on the shell but couldnt tell from where.. then i seen the beautiful teal 5th gen alltrac hiding in the corner that has happened to be my wallpaper for over a month, thing is bad bro just sayin.. lol .. seen it on "just stance" or some fb photo page (sorry for being weird)

anyways.. good work so far my dude going to be a good project!

This post has been edited by Ted95: Jul 15, 2012 - 11:01 PM

[FWD-3SGTE]

Mz will bolt to any trans the 3s
You can use a stock 3s flywheel an clutch kits

The wiring will be a nightmare on any of them so if your not good with wiring is suggest sending to someone that is lol
The only thing you should have to do custom is a pass (in your case drivers ) side motor mount
An if you wanna spend the money smaay makes them

Once the rest of my celica is ready is love to super charge my 1mz
Tons of power all the way through
An with Awd it could be a lot of fun all that off the line torque an no slip .

Thanks for the info, I will contact him to see what he offers. I will cross the wiring bridge when I come to a decisionon what motor to put in there, whatever motor I put in, needs to pass emissions no problem when the time comes every two years. One of the main goals of the car

dude, i knew i seen those white wheels before on the shell but couldnt tell from where.. then i seen the beautiful teal 5th gen alltrac hiding in the corner that has happened to be my wallpaper for over a month, thing is bad bro just sayin.. lol .. seen it on "just stance" or some fb photo page (sorry for being weird)

anyways.. good work so far my dude going to be a good project!

Thanks Ted, is your desktop backround from Staggered car show in Somers CT this year?

The project should be fun, I just can't wait till it's done!

[kurt95gt]

Well if you go with a 97+ 1mz do yourself a favor an get the whole intake an fuel rail setup off a 94-96
That way you can convert it back to a return style fuel system like the celica uses
An if you start n/a with a 1mz a stick gt fuel pump will work as well

[delusionz]

v6 awd would be kind of cool, gotta boost it though, you'll be taking a massive power cut staying NA.

GT4's aren't all that impressive in stock form either, but then back in it's day I'm sure we **** on Subaru, Nissan, Mazda, anything except Evo2+ for comparable 2.0Ts in Japan in 1994

v6 supercharged awd should be pretty sick, will definitely make light work of those annoyingly long E154F ratios that catch you in turbo lag on tight corners,

and that big heavy v6 should anchor the front down a bit more, make that rear end a bit more fun

[FWD-3SGTE]

Well if you go with a 97+ 1mz do yourself a favor an get the whole intake an fuel rail setup off a 94-96
That way you can convert it back to a return style fuel system like the celica uses
An if you start n/a with a 1mz a stick gt fuel pump will work as well

If it matters, I will most likely be running new fuel lines up and down the car but keeping the electronic parts of the fuel setup the same, should I still get the fuel system from a 94-96?

v6 awd would be kind of cool, gotta boost it though, you'll be taking a massive power cut staying NA.

GT4's aren't all that impressive in stock form either, but then back in it's day I'm sure we **** on Subaru, Nissan, Mazda, anything except Evo2+ for comparable 2.0Ts in Japan in 1994

v6 supercharged awd should be pretty sick, will definitely make light work of those annoyingly long E154F ratios that catch you in turbo lag on tight corners,

and that big heavy v6 should anchor the front down a bit more, make that rear end a bit more fun

If I go the mz route, I will def be supercharging it. As far as the gear ratios go, is it possible that I could just swap out the final drive for that of a MR2?

This post has been edited by FWD-3SGTE: Jul 16, 2012 - 5:27 AM

[kurt95gt]

97+ mz motors have a returnless fuel system so there would be no return line coming off the fuel rail
Since your redoing the whole system anyway you could just layout the whole system like a 97+ Lexus es300
Witch I think has some kind of regulator. Back by the fuel pump
Not 100% on that tho
That an if you get a 3mz an swap to the 94-96 1mz intake
You won't Have to deal with the drive by wire eather.

Oh an alil fun fact a a 1mz/3mz with a sc is still lighter than a fully dressed 3s
My car now is lighter than it was with the 5s an a/c system still in it

[FWD-3SGTE]

97+ mz motors have a returnless fuel system so there would be no return line coming off the fuel rail
Since your redoing the whole system anyway you could just layout the whole system like a 97+ Lexus es300
Witch I think has some kind of regulator. Back by the fuel pump
Not 100% on that tho
That an if you get a 3mz an swap to the 94-96 1mz intake
You won't Have to deal with the drive by wire eather.

Oh an alil fun fact a a 1mz/3mz with a sc is still lighter than a fully dressed 3s
My car now is lighter than it was with the 5s an a/c system still in it

I take it you have a supercharged mz? If so, how do you like it?

[kurt95gt]

No my Mz is still n/a
I'm just kind of assuming since I know a n/a Mz is lighter than a 5s
So once you add on the extra weight of a turbo to the 3s an the extra waight of a sc to the Mz they should weight about the same with the mz maybe being lighter if you remove the a/c

But that being said I live my n/a 1mz it pulls hard from idle to red line
But drives no diffrebt than it did before with the 5s
When I'm intown I can't even tell the powers there till I hit the gas

An if you read my build thread everythingrhat has went wrong has been ny own doing lol

[delusionz]

Didn't realise it was one of the all alloy motors with plastic manifolds, yeah it should be significantly lighter

[kurt95gt]

It's an all aluminum motor . Intake included lol
I liked the fact that it didn't change the way the car handles at all.
She still drives like a normal celica till you really push on the gas

[FWD-3SGTE]

kurt, how involved is the wiring for the 1mz swap? What harness is started with and what needs to be changed, in a nut shell?

[kurt95gt]

To be honest I'm not 100% on what all changes for sure
I know the 6gen fuse box gets wired in the correct plug for the speed sensor
Then it has some wiring to deal with the trans codes since most 1mzs were autos
An just moving stuff in genral to match where it should run on the celica

Smaay could probably tell you a lot more on the wiring
I sent mine to Mr220v to have it done. It cost like 350+ shipping both ways

[FWD-3SGTE]

Grea, thanks for the info

Does anyone know if the 2GR block and E154F trans will not interfere with each other? That's another motor I came across as a possible swap..

[Smaay]

the 2GR will bolt right up to the E153. no problem. I still suggest you stay away from the 2GR. yes it makes awesome power but they do have a tone of issues that need to be corrected. Personally i would go with a full 3MZ or a 1MZ/3MZ hybrid like i made.

the 3MZ has the plastic intake manifold and has changed over to DBW. it never mated to a 5 speed so you will have to deal with auto codes, although i hear they are easier to defeat over the 2GR codes.

the 1MZ did mate to a 5 speed and if you get a solara engine and harness, the ECU is the same one, you just need to ground a single pin and that turns it into a 5 speed. no auto codes.

now for the biggest hurdle. after messing with my swap for months now, i can tell you this, if you plan on going AWD with a V6, you will need custom header in the back because the stock header is not going to fit around the transfer case. there is not a lot of room back in there. im still fighting with the header and EGR port and hitting the steering rack.

one nice thing about the 3MZ is that there is no EGR, it has VVT, and its a good engine.

[kurt95gt]

Glad you brought the header up smaay
I was thinking about that an forgot to post anything
Although it wasn't my egr that was hitting the steering rack it was my o2 sensor

[FWD-3SGTE]

Great info guys, thanks. Smaay, your 1mz/3mz hybrid, did you use a 3mz motor with 1mz intake? What else was swapped, fuel system? What did you do about the oddball motor mount situation? What else am I looking at for hurdles with a mz swap and how are emissions handled? Any regrets for the swap btw?

Whoa, sorry for the questions, not trying to overload you

This post has been edited by FWD-3SGTE: Jul 19, 2012 - 2:03 AM

[kurt95gt]

You can handle the mount one of 2 ways
Modifies the stock gt mount with some flat plate steel so it can reach the mounting point on the Mz
Or you could always talk smaay into making you a mount like his
I know once I got the extra funds I'm gonna have him make me one lol

My only regret was not fully knowing what I was getting myself into before the swap
Other than that I love it.

[Smaay]

Great info guys, thanks. Smaay, your 1mz/3mz hybrid, did you use a 3mz motor with 1mz intake? What else was swapped, fuel system? What did you do about the oddball motor mount situation? What else am I looking at for hurdles with a mz swap and how are emissions handled? Any regrets for the swap btw?

Whoa, sorry for the questions, not trying to overload you

im using the block of the 3MZ to get the 3.3L and the heads and intake of the 1MZ. im using 1MZ electronics and wiring. Because im in the communist California, i have to do it this way. even though the engine is newer than the car, it also must have mated to a 5 speed. as for fuel, i havent figured that out. I want to stay with a return system, but like Kurt mentioned, in 02 the 1MZ was returnless. that means i need to get a regulator and put it in the tank. Im not sure what california will want me to do. im certain ill ahve to add a regulator in the tank so ill have to do with the MR2 guys do.

[kurt95gt]

It seems like I read about someone putting the regulator ridge outside the tank
Like it was in the sending line then it was t'd back into the stock return line on the tank

[FWD-3SGTE]

Great info guys, thanks. Smaay, your 1mz/3mz hybrid, did you use a 3mz motor with 1mz intake? What else was swapped, fuel system? What did you do about the oddball motor mount situation? What else am I looking at for hurdles with a mz swap and how are emissions handled? Any regrets for the swap btw?

Whoa, sorry for the questions, not trying to overload you

im using the block of the 3MZ to get the 3.3L and the heads and intake of the 1MZ. im using 1MZ electronics and wiring. Because im in the communist California, i have to do it this way. even though the engine is newer than the car, it also must have mated to a 5 speed. as for fuel, i havent figured that out. I want to stay with a return system, but like Kurt mentioned, in 02 the 1MZ was returnless. that means i need to get a regulator and put it in the tank. Im not sure what california will want me to do. im certain ill ahve to add a regulator in the tank so ill have to do with the MR2 guys do.

Are there any negatives to go with a 1mz head on a 3mz block? I'm guessing the wiring is much simpler with the 1mz harness, no? Any reasons to stay with a full 3mz?

My 2 main reasons for wanting the v6 is to be different and be able to supercharge it.

[FWD-3SGTE]

What the heck is this? ^^^^^^

[kurt95gt]

Well I just happen to be lookin at random stuff on celica tech an seen this read it an thought of you
Should answer slit of questions on what to do for your swap
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthrea...Alltrac-writeup.

Basically the main thing I seen that will help you is the trans he used .
He didnt use the stock gt4/ alltrac trans . He used a 01-05 rav4 Awd 5speed trans
The transfer case is shaped alittle different an gives extra room for the exhaust
The only downside was the gears are alittle shorter. But...... The final drive is the same so the stock st205 rear diff can still be used.
That's just a quick run down of a small part of the thread. He goes through the whole build in detail (even gives a tool list lol ) on how he done his 3vz alltrac swap

[FWD-3SGTE]

Thanks a lot for the link kurt, the only downside is that I just picked up a 205 trans the other week, dummy move I guess, lol. Reasearch first Christopher (slaps head)!

[kurt95gt]

Spare trans for the altrac u guess right lol

[FWD-3SGTE]

Lol, what alltrac?

[kurt95gt]

Lol I thought in a earlier post you said you had a alltrac
Must have read wrong oops

[FWD-3SGTE]

Lol I thought in a earlier post you said you had a alltrac
Must have read wrong oops