front drive celica to rear wheel, can you do it Options

[pyro0694]

i was skimming through the forums and saw a topic on converting US spec celicas to all wheel drive using the all-trac drivetrain. i read that the possibility of the conversion working was slim to none. i thought it would be easier to convert it to rear wheel drive using the old jdm corolla(AE86) drivetrain. i was wondering if this was more feasible than all wheel drive.

[BigEdge169]

This is one of those questions that can be answered by saying with enough money anything is possible. The problem people have had with the AWD conversion is getting the rear end on correctly and keeping it alligned, so you'd probably run into similar problems with the AE86 parts also. It would most likely be incredibly expensive to do it correctly, but it would be awesome it see it done. Good luck to you if you want and plan to do it.

BTW, for the AWD conversion to work, you need all the parts from a ST205 chassis, including all the floorpans from it must be swapped in place of the yours. The difficultly of doing the conversion correctly is many times way understated, so be forewarned.

[boosted_K2]

you could also take a plasma-cutter and cut out holes in the floor pan for the rear dif and weld in some bent up sheet metal, so the ST205 floor isnt necessary. actually using the AE86 drivetrain isnt a bad idea, cuz you could probably swap the 4AGZE motor in at the same time and link it to the 86's transmission and drivetrain, but you may need a different sized driveshaft, which inst too difficult to get, you just need to get the correct yolks fitted and balanced.... hmm... you would probably need to cut up some space down the center of the car as well for the driveshaft. the complete rear end would be a full custom job becuase you are switching from a IRS to a solid axle... weld up some new mounts, just gotta be real careful with the alignment. motor setup would be a complete custom job as well since you are switching from a trans. mounted engine to a vert setup. overall not a bad idea, but LOTS of customizing.

id say feasably the AWD swap would probably be a little easier since the motor will still be trans. mounted, and theres already a production car with that setup.

[macavely]

if you do that your better off starting out with stripping the car... and getting to just the frame.. and working up from there... that would make lining everthing up alot simpler...

[boosted_K2]

[macavely]

[integra_killer]

i wish celicas were rwd

[lagos]

buy an mr2 !

[97sccelica]

[qatar11]

Hmm...

Silvia
Supra
AE86
MX5
RX7
IS300

All reasonably available cars with RWD that you could get and be very unique and cool with.

[97sccelica]

[boosted_K2]

the firewall wont have to go. you can bend it up out of the way with a sledgehammer to fit the tranny in underneith the car. and you can also mount it so the motor and tranny sit lower in the engine bay so it actually clears it. the point is if you have the money and know how to do it, you probably can. but yea, its so much easier to buy a car already setup like that... but not everyone wants to take the easy route.

[wind]

then take the same sledge hammer and give the gas tank a couple good wacks.... after thats done...... have a smoke!

[kuya1284]

[macavely]

the fire wall is just a sheet of metal can be cut after everthing is in... this is was you strip the car and start on the frame... you build around that...

you might want to go in this order
Frame
Supspension
Engine/trasmmisiion
electrical
interior
chasie
body panles

this way stuff like the firewall won't be a problem

[boosted_K2]

the firewall is part of the unibody, i guess you could punch out the spotwelds and remove it, but i really dont think its necessary.

[FallenHero]

Bolt a tube frame to the floor pans and weld it in everywhere you can find. Bolt all of your major rear end parts to the new frame, and you can cut any part of the floor pan out you need. The tube frame will keep everything straight.

The problem with the RWD set up is getting the speedo to work.

I think all four tires are used on celicas to get the speed, that means you have to deal with the back two sensors. I personally would use the rear wheel bearings and suspension parts of a GT-4 ST-205, I am sure that would be easier to get than the whole rear end.

Out of curiosity, were the early supras I6's?

[macavely]

some one help me out here but isn't the speed sensore located on inside the transmission ???

[lagos]

sorry but i dont think you are correct FallenHero. there is one speed sensor that bolts into the tranny. the reading from that sensor is what tells your speedo how fast you are going.

i think your are thinking of the antilock brakes speed sensors that are located around the wheels. those are just there to determin if one of the wheels is slipping

[pistatio56]

any changes to the firewall are absolutely illegal

[boosted_K2]

so are non-DOT altezza taillights. what is your point??

[FallenHero]

chalk that one up for the haynes repair manual explaining things so well;)

It said speed sensor, I had no clue... But if you have ABS, I suppose it would still be a problem

[Phr0z3n664]

What be easier and had a better channce of success?

A celi on a 240SX frame or
celi on corrola frame

Both w/ 3SGTE

[97sccelica]

[Phr0z3n664]

If someone seriously wanted to do this they could build a custom frame that will accept all the exterior from a celi.

My friends father races trucks, and they swap turck to unibody for weight reasons.

People who build 1932 ford roadster sdo not even use any parts from the car usually, they just buy it for a title.

Basically it would be the equivalent to a kit car.


Please don't flame me on this, but if you look into hot rod restoring you should be able to find out about this. I think it would be a killer idea. Would be completely original(show aspect), and would become a force to be reckoned with. Only prob is most cars built like this usually take around $70k to build, but it's just a thought.

[FallenHero]

that's why you bolt a small square tube frame to the floor panels. then you can cut away and not worry about it braking in half

[Phr0z3n664]

that is similar to what some of my friend had to do to their G-bodies(monte carlo/cutlass) the fram has a tendency to twist when put under too much stress from motor.

This is getting even closer to turning a celi rw or awd w/o complications.
boxes in the chevy's work so I believe this would work also.

only prob is bottom of car has to be modified to hold a new rearend, right?

what rearend and tranny would be used for rwd?

Old style supra? a corrolla rear end?

what is the lengths of the rearend to see if it wouldn't be too wide? I can try to get info from someone at toyota.

I still think it would be awesome to have a rwd celica. It would go back to its root from the 1st gen celi. Guys we should make this a sticky and contribute info as we find it, and eventually when we think of everything we need and find the problems to solve before, then someone could build a rwd celi.

I do know a few shops around here that do work on drag cars.

[FallenHero]

I wonder how you would get the speedo to work...

[Kwanza26]

*laughs*

Although I haven't read everything... I would assume you guys are making this sound a lot harder than it actually is. It all depends on one's ability to custom fabricate strong parts and weld. Tearing out the rear-end of the T20's wouldn't be that difficult, and then finding a proper fitting rear-drive system, also wouldn't be that hard. It's just that, no one is willing to put forth the study time and effort to make a dream possible. I'll tell you right now... it's not a matter of parts... it's a matter of will. I'm willing to bet (if I had a better welder and deeper pockets, and more faith in the T20 chassi) that I can probably dish this out. Parts-wise... IS200/ST205/ST185/ST165 rear-end, custom rear drive-axles, custom driveshaft, IS200 RWD tranny, S series motor/MZ series motor. With those parts... some custom fabrication and welding, you'll be pretty set.

And fallen... I believe the speedo sensor is on the tranny...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Jan 23, 2004 - 2:22 AM

[macavely]

ok since it's not going to happen i can tell you guys what me and one of my cousins had pland...

Supra engine,tranny,ecu, suspension
Celica Frame and chasie, interior

we were going to get this supra MKIV (don't ask) and then but a 6th gen celica hb and strip both cars down to the frame. and put everything that was on the supra onto the celica.

i know some of you think that could be done but i ask you why not and please don't say cause it coast to much or this wont fit in that or that wont work with his... a car is a car.. wheels turn and all 4 strokes work the same..

[FallenHero]

If you guys saw the things these mini-truckers can do with some square tube and a welder, you would see just how easy it would be to get the parts in place. My only problem with it is the electronics. I am sure you could figure a way to make it work though. If it were me, I'd use a nissan 240 rear end with an LSD. but that would through off the speedo I am sure. Did any toyota short of the supra and IS come with a LSD? I would guess the 2jz rear end would be HUGE, and difficult to fit even with proper tools... but if you were building a car to do some serious racing, this would be no problem.

[ST95Celica]

The chassis is not made to handle the loads of RWD. You're going to snap the car.

[lagos]

man you guys must be smoking some good ****....

if you were to somehow put the celica body on another car, then it would not be a celica anymore. the best part if the 6th gen is how well it handles. whats next? welding a rolls royce front end to your car?

you really want rwd and 3sgte? trade your car in for an mr2 turbo. it would proabably be an even trade.

i mean, anything can be done in theory, but there are things that you just cant do without owning a car factory. but what the hell do i know. prove me wrong. stop posting and go out to your garage and start working on your project.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 24, 2004 - 10:29 PM

[kuya1284]

[FallenHero]

I have heard you can lock out the rwd portion of the GT-Four tranny. I wonder if you could lock out the front wheel drive parts, and leave it strictly rwd... Or is it set up like an Audi so that it's basically just a front wheel drive?

[KAMiX]

Fallen.. that's stupid.. If you're gonna swap the all the gear from the gt4 you may as well leave it AWD.

A mr2 is not the only form of RWD 3s action. You could swap a 3s-gte into a supra.. it's been done before and you'd have no worries about body strength...

Plus supra's don't look that much different

This post has been edited by KAMiX: Feb 1, 2004 - 7:42 AM

[XXX_Mina]

has anyone taken a st205 and made it RWD? what tranny can be used?

[Kwanza26]

[XXX_Mina]

i asked my mech about RWD on an allt rack... apparently to do that you have to turn your engine, because RWD trannys are placed in a totally different direction... which i coincedently notice the previous night while me and mechanic #2 had a mustang GT on a lift. I have my belts and stuff on the left side, mustang and camaro i looked at had thiers on the front. the tanny is just turned 90 degrees counter clockwise with an axel coming out of the end of it that goes to the back of the car.

Mina

This post has been edited by XXX_Mina: Feb 2, 2004 - 7:09 PM

[Kwanza26]

[kuya1284]

[DustyBurns30]

you could put the motor and all in the rear of the car, like the mr-2. of coarse you would have to make a firewall and some sort of sound proof cover. it would be doudle the custom work but would be sweet nonetheless.

[Kwanza26]

[DustyBurns30]

since your so knowledgeable about celicas, why don't you start offering up some solutions instead of just problems, i was just throwing it out there for discussion. obviously its going to take more than just turning bolts to make it work, so far all that you have posted on this topic has been negative and condesending. show more respect for the people who are just working out rough ideas, i know that you have a lot of knowledge on these cars and your input is valuable but not if your going to be a prick about it.

[Kwanza26]

[macavely]

[DustyBurns30]

you are such a little punk ass bitch, riding around with your samurai sword and talking down to people like you are the only one who has actually done something more than cosmetic to your car. even the way you word your posts, like its some grand speech and we are all just gonna sit at our computers and marvel at how articulate you are. and then you talk about how these are just pipe dreams and how none of us have the will or the know how to make this happen and how you could do this no problem, f*** you. what would you know about what i can or cannot do, or what resources i have at my disposal. i told you that i thought you were half way knowledgable about our cars but so far all i have seen is more of you stating the obvious **** that people with a life don't have time to type. you want a good reason why we are all considering this conversion, cause the body style of the celica is great, most other rwd cars that are in our price range aren't very good looking or aren't practicle for people who drive with more than their sword in their car. also cause for me this car is my project car. i know that i don't need anymore reason than that to consider this project. and you certainly don't need to be a millionaire to pull this off, i would have thought a guy that thinks of himself as a genious would have known that. ATTENTION... if you want someone to say it so badly than here it is...

" wow!!! thank you so much for saving us, you are so smart. all this time i thought that this would take me one day and all i would need is a sledge hammer."

[Kwanza26]

[DustyBurns30]

[Kwanza26]

[Supersprynt]

Oh man i was wondering why this topic was 2 pages and so lengthy...and i thought me, Anderson and caca were the only ones who argued. Ne ways, u'd have to strip the car to the frame to do that kinda conversion, its not worth it.

[DustyBurns30]

[kuya1284]

All I can say is IMHO I don't think mounting the motor in the rear would be very practical in a 6th gen. If it were, don't you think Toyota would have done that? Oh wait, they did... I think it's called an MR2.

But seriously... I usually discourage people for coming up with ideas such as this. However, I'm always interested in seeing new things happen. If anyone is willing to attempt this and make it happen... I just might go out of my way to fly out there, shake your hand, and take you out to lunch.

[boosted_K2]

if you want a RWD car, purchase one that was built to be RWD from the factory, a RWD converted car will never drive like a car built with that type of drivetrain in mind. with that this topic is closed.