need advice on an engine swap Options

[Zimluura]

My car's been leaking trace amounts of oil for a while now. I recently I had an overheating incident on the highway. got towed to wall-mart and put a gallon of coolant in and was able to drive home.
Just got the diagnosis from my mechanic and he says the coolant system isn't leaking, but there's a large amount of pressure building in it. [edit] he thinkgs it's a cracked head gasket [edit]. I think he said he stopped it at 27psi. just put 5k into getting an auto to manual conversion too.

so I think i've got to do an engine swap now. the question is, what should it be? my primary mechanic doesn't like to veer off the beaten path, mostly because he doesn't like to go over estimates. so he says he can ge a reman 5s-fe for 3.5K and then he estimates perhaps as high as another 3.5K for the labor and extra parts if he needs any. he says he has no idea on how much a rebuild would be, let alone rebuilding with better parts - which are hard to find and, for 6gc, usually expensive.

the mechanic who did my manual conversion, he lives too far away to by my primary, but he doesn't mind trying swaps and things like manual conversions. and his work seems pretty good, in-so-far that my primary mechanic said the conversion looked like it was well done.

for a while now i've been thinking about the 2gr-fe. if they can fit it in an mr2 it can probably fit in a celica. but i'd also be, as far as i can tell the first to try this swap. i'm not a complete idiot when it comes to cars, but i don't have a garage, and that really limits my ability to further educate myself.

what do you guys think i should do?
I'm prioritizing 100% legal with an egr system & OBD2 (car is a '99), i'd like good reliability and i'd like a bit more power, i'd like to keep the s54 transmission because it was rebuild less than a year ago (until i'm ready to do the oft-spoken, seldom-done e154f).

so far here are the options i'm considering:
* 2GR-FE swap, (heard the e154f won't like v6, but i think a custom rear manifold might clear the xfer case - but it's a bridge i can look at crossing when i'm ready for awd conv), is it feasible to stick with the s54? there are certainly times when i want more power than the 130 i have, but i generally don't push the engine.

* 1MZ-FE seems popular - seems a safer choice because it's been done before.

* get current 5S-FE rebuilt with better internals parts mostly favoring durability & slight performance improvement. any recommendations on where i would get those parts would be good then.

* build a garage & learn to rebuild the 5S-FE myself (most expensive option with least immediate payoff)

This post has been edited by Zimluura: Oct 4, 2012 - 2:45 PM

[SwissFerdi]

What about having a decent 5S swapped in, then working on the original motor yourself and when it's all freshened up, swap back out. You say it's the most expensive option, I say it's the most cost-efficient since you can buy parts at better prices than what your mech would charge, plus saving labor.

Unbelievable that you paid five large for the manual conversion, ouch...

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 1, 2012 - 7:56 PM

[zfjohnson07]

agree with swissferdi. and 3.5k for an engne and then another 3.5k for labor. you must make good money. Even if i had the money i woud do it myself. if i were you i would find one on jdmimport.com for like 1500 with 30k and then put it in there, and then rebuild your engine while you have it out for a back up! i know it sounds easier said then done but thats what i would do




This post has been edited by zfjohnson07: Oct 1, 2012 - 8:35 PM

[Spider77]

For 7k you can buy two celicas.....close enough. I would get the engine rebuilt stock and save for the swap....if cash isnt an issue i dont think you would of posted this. But 3.5k for a reman 5sfe? Wow.

[Smaay]

dude get another mechanic!!!! that guy is a crook. a 5S-FE should cost no more than 1200 for a re-man. i pulled my engine myself and rebuilt it for about 700 in parts. if its just your head gasket, just replace it and get back on the road. the new gaskets are metal, it will last forever. (as long as you dont abuse it)

a 2GR will be expensive...very expensive

a 1MZ will be cheaper. i suggest a VVTi 1MZ, it still has a throttle cable and makes more power. but you will still get a tranny code. the MR2 guys are trying to defeat that.

[Zimluura]

What about having a decent 5S swapped in, then working on the original motor yourself and when it's all freshened up, swap back out. You say it's the most expensive option, I say it's the most cost-efficient since you can buy parts at better prices than what your mech would charge, plus saving labor.

Unbelievable that you paid five large for the manual conversion, ouch...

well i completely agree, but...the first part of that sentence was "build a garage" due to local building codes & placement on my lot: i'll have to build a connection to my house (unattached garage can't be in front of my front door, attached is ok). so that jumps the cost right up from gettng a 10-15k prefab steel structure. so i'm ball-parking that as 30-50k - should building permits be cooperative, if not i'll have to rent a garage or move. it's possible that a steel structure won't fly around here without vinyl siding, i guess maybe another 1-5k for that (not sure house is all bricks and mortar right now)

the auto->manual swap included a transmission rebuild. replaced gears 2&5, some kind of performance clutch, short ram intake + new 99 manual ecu. most of the parts i got from UrbanDork for 1k (included in the 5k), but a piece on the transmission broke during the 3k miles of shipping. i think the ecu + gears from toyota was in the 1200 dollar range. if it still sounds super high to you guys, i do want to know!

i think the 3.5k 5S-FE included warranty. typically my primary mechanic is a bit higher than normal, but usually the competition, at least fromwhat i've seen around here, isn't much cheaper, and they are much less thourough. is my callibration completely off on this? where do you guys normally look to get great deals on parts and labor?

[Box]

dude get another mechanic!!!! that guy is a crook. a 5S-FE should cost no more than 1200 for a re-man. i pulled my engine myself and rebuilt it for about 700 in parts. if its just your head gasket, just replace it and get back on the road. the new gaskets are metal, it will last forever. (as long as you dont abuse it)

That, the guy is fleecing you.

[Zimluura]

alright, 2nd opinion for sure. but what would you guys estimate with labor? and what for rebuilding the current 5S-FE? any ideas on what parts should go into such a rebuild? rememnber i don't have the space to do much myself.

[Xander_X]

I'm going to play the echo here:

5k for a trans swap!? I don't care if they rebuilt it with adimantium or unobtainium parts ... 5K!? 7K for a 5S swap?! I'm not even gonna touch that one .... Dude, if I lived in Virginia I would probably still be a mechanic and not a cop. Apparently the techs live lavish lifestyles.

That being said,

1. Find a new mechanic ... and for safe measures, fire him and find another new mechanic.
2. Don't waste money building up a 5S. That's like Honda people (trust me I was one for 10 years) building their SOHC Civic engines ... waste of money... if you REALLY want more power grab the 1MZ clip

This post has been edited by Xander_X: Oct 3, 2012 - 11:58 AM

[zfjohnson07]

labor should be about 500-700. I searched for you and most people said go to toyota and order a rebuild kit its about 1,000

look at this thread below here :

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...hl=rebuild+5sfe

[Zimluura]

i agree it would be foolish to pay 7k for a 5s swap, i paid 7k for the car in 2005.

questions related to me not doing any of the work
1) what do people feel is a fair price for a manual conversion?
2) what sounds like a fair price for an engine rebuild?
3) what sounds like a fair price for an engine swap? assuming 2.2k for a 3yr warrantied engine?
4) does anyone know a mechanic in/near richmond va, who does good work at good prices?

looking into the garage option. that will need a fairly large addition on the house as well and will be _really_ expensive.

[mkernz22]

$5,000 for an auto to manual swap?!?!?! Are you kidding me? I did it in my driveway for maybe just under $1000!

[CastrolCelica]

I feel really bad for you. When you sell this Celica one day, you'll get only a small fraction of your money you put in back from it.

[Zimluura]

if i planned on selling it someday i wouldn't have put much money into it. but so far i'm not really getting much creative problem solving here, just lots of people telling me i've been ripped off. and lots of people telling me to do it myself, which, at the moment, i can't.

[edit] sorry if that came off as pissy. i do appreciate the opinions. but it's mostly a commentary on my overpayment (again, i agree that it was allot of money), and the only real solution seems to be to build a garage and do it myself.

This post has been edited by Zimluura: Oct 4, 2012 - 10:36 AM

[zfjohnson07]

Good call BUILD A GARAGE and do it yourself. then you can take pride in it, knowing that it is done the right way. Plus you got everyone here for help! I'm sure someone lives near you and would love to help you with this project. GL

[Special_Edy]

Well hows this for another suggestion, just drive the current engine till it wont go no more. It wont cost you a penny.
1mz's can be had for under a grand. $500-1000 will buy you a camry, es-300 or sienna with 100k-200k miles that has been totaled but has a running engine. You will be able to use the engine, harness, ecu and transmission plus you can part out the donor car to recoup some of your money or just sell the shell to a junkyard for $200. I think a premade harness for the conversion will run you $400 and will be cheaper and higher quality than what your mechanic could do, cant remember which member sells the harness though. Now youre up to $1000-$1500 total and tack on about $500-$2000 for a mechanic to do the labor removing your 5s and dropping the v6 in there.

As for the 2gr, an engine/harness/ecu is about $1500 from what Ive found plus you'll need some bits and pieces like a hybrid harness, clutch and motormounts.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Oct 4, 2012 - 11:58 AM

[kurt95gt]

1mz is the way to go if your going to go v6
I've done the swap. If you plan a head an get all the parts you need
Like clutch,flywheel,maf sensor, An most importantly the wiring harness.
Mr220v does the harness for 370+ shipping both ways if I remember correctly.
You can get 99.9% of what you need from one parts car
97 will be the year you'll need most of the parts from
You'll want a 94-96 lower intake an a 3vz/3s flywheel an fw bolts
An a clutch to match the flywheel/trans combo your using.

There's more but don't have time to go too far into detail right now

[mkernz22]

Why would you need to build a garage? Just get tools and do it in your driveway. Or even if you have a 1 car garage, do it in there. You don't need a lift for things like this. You're really over thinking it.

[Zimluura]

cool! that's more what i was hoping to hear!

mkernz22: on doing a swap in the driveway: a quote i've heard is "come to virginia, if you don't like the weather, stay a day", ontop of that my driveway is mostly crush_and_run at the moment, there are some paved parts, but even those are aged, sloped, and not very smooth (not sure about jackstands, but i don't think an engine crane would move well on it). and i don't even have a single car garage. and since i've never done something this serious before i think i'll at least need no time limits in a dry space. if i had some solid trust in my ability to bang out the job i might be looking into setting up a tent and enough pavers to move the crane around or renting a garage, but then there's utility accounts to set up and pay for too.

kurt95gt: i assume it would always be better to rebuild a 1mz before putting it in. but i'm also guessing that paying for a rebuild is really expensive. would you just get one a drop it in?

all: working on plans for the garage now, thinking something that could fit 4 cars but only used for 2 and allot of workshop space (so the current workshop can revert to a bedroom). it won't have central heat/ac, but i could maybe get a window unit and space heater. it'll be crazy expensive but it adds equity which when/if it's time to sell i should be able to recoup. hopefully it won't add to much to real estate tax and homeowners insurance.

[kurt95gt]

Asumimg it doesn't have crazy high miles
Mine has 157,000 an I'm just dropping it in since I know it runs good

[njccmd2002]

build a garage to do a swap? 15K. why not use that money for downpayment and trade the celica.

5K for a transmission swap? really?

look up on ebay, and see how many 5sfes are for sale for cheap. i sold one for 200 bucks, still running.

hell even a beams engine will cost you 1700 dollars these days. and it drops in quick.

dont overthink it, go to the easiest route. get some tools and change the headgasket yourself.

Chances are your mechanic already got 5 k for a tranny swap, he may want to milk you for more money. sorry bro, at the best 2k for the swap including tranny, not 5k.

GET A SECOND OPINION.

get a second opinion.

[soulshadow]

Small Block Chevy V8!!!
lol, Just drop another 5S in there. No need to waste time and resources when you could buy a better car.

[czwalga]

For 5k, i'll drive down to your house load your car on my trailer, put a 3sge in it, and bring it back.

[Zimluura]

njccmd2002: 2 different mechanics, the guy who estimated the engine swap for 7k did not recommend doing it, and he gave an estmation he was likely to get under, still it's way to much to be worth doing, he only offered it because i'd just spent so much on the manual conv. fwhen i got the manual conversion i was well over 2k on parts & shipping alone. i'm sure if i knew a toyota parts guy i'd have gotten some nice discounts but as it stands, i don't get oem parts cheaply. i haven't been able to find any inexpensive options around here for performance modifications. could be all about high rent in this area, the more rural shops i'm sure could do better. but i don't really want to be driving/towing several hours each way when/if something needs tinkering in the first few days. i probably have the tools to change the headgasket at the moment, but working outside here can really suck, still i might be able to pull it off.

soulshadow: pondered getting a c6 rolling chassis and dropping (while cutting to fit) a 6gc body on it. lots of custom work in that. if i learn to weld maybe. i do want to stick with the 6gc, it has become the car i want, and i don't expect to get my money (or anywhere close to it) in the event i sell it (which is unlikely). it's a car, it's a tool and a toy, not an investment. if i had the option of the f430 or the celica i'd take the f430, sell it quicky for very little and buy the celica again.

czwalga: want to do a 100% legal swap (so EGR & 99+ year), so i'm not allowed easy routes like the wonderful 3s-g* engines which, to my knowledge never had obd2. if i get the engine fixed & upgraded, how much would you charge for an awd conversion?

[Special_Edy]

Yeah ten-four. Always get a second opinion. Two heads are better than one anyways, people will always try to screw you to make money or get ahead, and 6gc is always here to let you know if a price sounds fishey

[Zimluura]

for what it's worth i also talked to tweak before the manual conv. but he didn't want to do the auto-manual swap. he lives really far away from me as well.

was also looking at this.
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
since this car was made there has been a 38% inflation change. these us$ don't seem to go very far nowadays.

[SwissFerdi]

f430 or the celica

That'd be a tougher choice if it was an F40 or 458.

Per the manual conversion, the factory parts are what drive up your cost, not factoring labor. To give you an idea, I paid $350 for all of my conversion parts, although this does not include a new clutch. I ended up finding parts cheaply here and online ($50 for ECU, same for flywheel...you get the idea). Additionally, that number was made possible by the generous parts donation by a local 6GCer.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 5, 2012 - 2:13 PM

[Zimluura]

i don't like the 458 or f40 as much as the 360 and f430. different

yeah those oem parts are pricey
when i got the car the trunk deck tray had been dogged and one of the clips broken off if. toyota price $315. i opted for small cut of steel bar and jbweld.
toyota cc unit lightbulb = $10/bulb (before you could get them at autolumination).
what is the price for the 8 speaker door panels again is it $600 per or was it $1000 per?

[soulshadow]

There was a time when I was a naive kid who wanted to make my 6GC fly. Bad choice for a project when you have absolutely no tools, knowledge, or money. I have learned my lesson, if you want it to fly it should already be flying first, just make it fly faster.

[Zimluura]

when i was a kid i was thinking "elise" or "z06", both cars offer lots of bang for the buck. now, i'd rather spend money on the celica.