Smaay ! V6 vs. Beams, Let's do this ! Options

[Batman722]

OK, there has been debates left and right about this.
You're a big believer in you're V6, and you should be.
I'm a believer in both.

First, I have respect for a good V6. The 1mz-fe isn't the best IMO, a 3mz-fe is better IMO.
A power of a 1mz-fe comparable to a Beams all day. The power delivery and torque curve is very different, yes but you can never compare a GE head to an FE head.
You have a 1mz/3mz hybrid, that's like saying a hybrid 5s-gte is better than a stock 3sgte.

I have a Beams in my Celica. Bone stock (except an exhaust) with the LSD tranny it came with.
The Beams is great down low and booms after 4K rpms and pulls hard until red line, the advantage of VVT-I with a GE head.

Ease of swap ? Beams in a heartbeat.
The Beams is close to plug and play, you can use a s54 or use the s54 w/lsd with the motor with no custom mounts, no custom anything really.
Reliability ? Beams. Any V6 (1m or 3m) should be rebuilt. You'd be a fool not to, we all know why.
Parts availability ? Both. Beams parts are available in the US. There is virtually no part I couldn't get from another toyota that's used on a Beams.
Power ? 1mz-fe or Beams ? IMO Beams. I have driven the 1m in a Camry, I'm sure it would be more fun in a Celica, until someone proves me wrong the Beams is my answer.
3mz-fe ? all day over a Beams, but cost is much higher.
Cost of swap (1mz-fe) ? Beams is less a landslide. Why ? Well...a 1m motor is cheaper but it gonna need a rebuild - no doubt (always do a compression test first). Most people can't rebuild an engine ($), you should use an e153 with hybrid axles, a custom mount (don't you sell one for around $200 ?), the wiring - for an average person, it's gonna cost them to have someone do it, how about the power steering pump, AC, throttle cable, ect. The Beams is a Celica motor going into a Celica. The only difficult part is wiring, which is piss easy for an average person. There is no custom anything, except maybe a tach adapter or use a stock Beams cluster and no adapter needed.

Overall I would (and did) put a Beams in a Celica over a 1mz-fe.
A 3mz-fe would be better but I don't like the drive by wire set up, problems will arise.
A 2gr would be overkill and would kill our 15-19 year old cars.

[kurt95gt]

Can't wait to see what smaay has to say

[ILoveMySilly97]

Hmmm.....this is going to be interesting. Lol. The only reason why id choose the 1mz is because living in Cali. I don't have the luxury to own a beams motor......:'(

Can't wait to see what smaay has to say

Kurt you got the 1mz. Put some opinions here. Lol.

This post has been edited by ILoveMySilly97: Sep 24, 2013 - 11:48 PM

[kurt95gt]

Hmmm.....this is going to be interesting. Lol. The only reason why id choose the 1mz is because living in Cali. I don't have the luxury to own a beams motor......:'(

Can't wait to see what smaay has to say

Kurt you got the 1mz. Put some opinions here. Lol.

Dustin is already aware of my opinion ATM
We had a nice talk about it while I was driving his beams lol

[ILoveMySilly97]

Lucky! So how'd you like it? Was it what you expected? Or no?

[kurt95gt]

Lucky! So how'd you like it? Was it what you expected? Or no?

It was basically how I thought it would be smooth from idle to 7k an very quick on the highway
I have drove richee3s beams before too
Dustins is a step up from dans but a 1 up on a 1mz idk
For me driving both the line of witch is better I've very blurred
My 1mz feel like it pull alot harder from idle to 6k than the beams
But the beams is so smooth that you don't notice how fast the power comes in.
I honestly think it will come down to how well either car is tuned an the skill of the driver
Personally I'd give the win in a race to the 1mz because it'll get the beams where it counts
The 1mz on good tires will out run the beams to the 60 foot mark in a drag race. An if you can beat some one to the 60 foot in cars that are fairly even matched you'll have a hard time catching up after the 60 foot
The beams is a fun highway motor
You can rev the balls off of it an fly by traffic
But you can't get away with that so easy intown
The 1mz is a monster in town since your at lower rpms
But falls alittle short on the top end on the highway

[bnr32celica]

OK, here goes...

Power steering pump: I used the 1MZ pump with the GT lines.

AC: I used the GT compressor with the 1MZ's AC clutch and pulley.

Custom mount: Smaay's the man. I'm using an S54, so that's really the only mount you should need to buy. I filled my crossmember mounts with urethane and some unknown chemicals that made them very hard.

Trans: I'm gonna use an S54. There's a clutch kit out there for it already, but I'm using a better disk. You can be a pal and bring me that pressure plate Manny has this weekend, and then you can DRIVE a 1MZ.

Wiring: I paid someone to do it. Cost me way less than the other guys and looks just as nice. Works too.

Engine health: I heard mine run and drive, I think I'll be OK without a rebuild. This goes without saying though, if you can't read a compression chart and drop a pan, you shouldn't swap anyways. I almost have to throw it out there it took Dan THREE BEAMS to get one good one, so there's bad apples in every bunch. Saying every V6 should be rebuilt is a generalization. If the only thread I read about a BEAMS swap was Dan's, I'd say every BEAMS should be rebuilt. See what I'm getting at?

Now, I have driven a V6 in a 5GC, and also Dustin's BEAMS as well. There are things I like about both, and things I don't like about both as well. I'm still a whore for torque and balls down low (which is why I have a Saab), but I also like the feeling of a high-revving 4banger as well. The tipping point for me is the need to be different though. Seems everyone is BEAMS swapping. Never followed the pack before, not going to now. For about an hour, Iseriously considered selling my V6 setup, but then I realized I would ultimately be following the leader. No, I'm not the first to V6, but I'm the first to do it my way, and that's a good feeling.

End of the day though, to each their own, I like 'em both and wouldn't look either horse in he mouth.

[kurt95gt]

5gc with a v6?? Witch v6
Not a lot of those either

[bnr32celica]

5gc with a v6?? Witch v6
Not a lot of those either

3VZ. My harness builder has one. Fun car, especially with no interior haha.

[kurt95gt]

Yea the 1mz will be faster

[Rusty]

Slightly off topic but on topic.

A former 6GC NZ member on here used to own a BEAMS, cant remember if it was a SS-III or a SS-II as he's owned both, was telling me how his friend had a FTO (for you USA members this is a V6 FWD Mitsubishi, which looks similar to a Supra, and this was the Mivec engine (which is the same as Toyota's VVT-I & Nissan's VCT)

Although the specs of the FTO where slightly in favour, the ST202 just pulled away from it.

So with that would be interesting to see how a 1MZ-FE goes.


The redtop BEAMS does fall down a bit in aftermarket support imo. Where as the 3S-GE, has lots of parts, due to the interchangeability with its GTE counterpart

Corolla's(Toyota Blade Master) have 2GR's in them

[kurt95gt]

Slightly off topic but on topic.

A former 6GC NZ member on here used to own a BEAMS, cant remember if it was a SS-III or a SS-II as he's owned both, was telling me how his friend had a FTO (for you USA members this is a V6 FWD Mitsubishi, which looks similar to a Supra, and this was the Mivec engine (which is the same as Toyota's VVT-I & Nissan's VCT)

Although the specs of the FTO where slightly in favour, the ST202 just pulled away from it.

So with that would be interesting to see how a 1MZ-FE goes.


The redtop BEAMS does fall down a bit in aftermarket support imo. Where as the 3S-GE, has lots of parts, due to the interchangeability with its GTE counterpart

Corolla's(Toyota Blade Master) have 2GR's in them

The to is slowed down by the awd trans just like the 3sgte isn't as fast in a gt4 as a fwd celica

[Box]

All things being equal I put my money of the V6. The thing with the FTO though is despite being a V6 it makes less torque than the 5S does. The 1MZ on the other hand makes over 200 ft lbs. Even with the Solara weighing in at some 3,250 pounds it'll hit 60 in 7.1 seconds. So imagine shaving off some 600-700 pounds off of that. It's still easier to get any part for the 1MZ though, no cross referencing and what not just find parts for a Camry and done. I don't see why you insist the 1MZ needs a rebuild though. Within my family alone there have been over 10 1MZ's most with over 200K miles on them with no problems whatsoever on the original engine. Yes yes the sludge problem, but that's only a problem if it was neglected. Besides, it's worth going 1MZ for the sole fact it won't sound like a bumble bee with gas.

[ILoveMySilly97]

Interesting read so far. Now it's getting me to think that these two engines are like a turbo vs a supercharger. Lol. The turbo being the BEAMS since you get the power once the vvti kicks in and the 1mzfe being the supercharger since you're generally using all the engine output power through out the acceleration. Lol.

BTW, don't mind my comments. I have no experience in any of these engines. Lol. Just throwing random opinions and thoughts out there.

[Rusty]

The to(FTO?) is fwd not awd btw.
Had a read up on the FTO to make sure my info is right
147.1Kw @ 7,500rpm
200Nm @ 6,000rpm
5s-fe
101Kw @ 5,400rpm
197Nm @ 4,400rpm





But since this is beams vs v6/MZ lets concentrate on these engines

beams
146.9Kw @ 7,000rpm
206Nm @ 6,000rpm

1mz-fe vvti
156Kw @ 5,800rpm
328Nm @ 4,400rpm


vvti is continuously varying throughout the rpm range, it is based on load and rpm and doesn't 'kick in.' the intake cam advances low rpm and retards higher rpm. Can post my graphs of this if its of help to this discussion.


Since the 1mz-fe is an fe head, What is the head set up? how do the camshafts run, are they scissor cam like the 5sfe?




Also everyone posting, keep the posting clean

[njccmd2002]

[Box]

Had a dyslexia moment and thought it said 143 ft lb, still that's only 3 more ft lb than the 5S and is low for a V6 all things considered. Plus other things to take into consideration would be transmission and final ratios of the FTO.

Anyhow, it'd really be close between the two provided the cars are equally set up. The one good thing is if both cars have the S54 it boils down to just the engine, and this is what I'd like to see. Perfect scenario you have two GT's with the only difference being the BEAMS or 1MZ-FE; suspension the same, wheels and tires the same, so on and so forth. Even go as far to find a semi-pro driver that'd be unbiased to drive both cars to ensure fairness. Then it totally comes down to the engine with no other variables being involved. Then have a variety of tests: 0-60, 0-100, 50-70, 70-85, 70-100, and 1/4 mile. From there could do a slalom and skid pad test, and then find a nice road course to get some lap times. That'd establish a pretty good benchmark of what both swaps are capable of and put any disputes to rest. I think it'd make for a fun event as well, everyone could get together and see both cars perform in person. Of course the problem is making two equal cars and all of the work involved in doing such.

[presure2]

this thread is like the special olympics.

[Box]

this thread is like the special olympics.

If by that you mean that it's full of inspirational and heartwarming moments, then yes.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 5:56 AM

[Smaay]

Dang i wish i saw this last night. It was getting late for me.

ok I originally did have a hybrid. 3MZ block with 1MZ heads. for some reason i cant explain since i totally rebuilt that engine, it spun a rod bearing. Well when i was shopping for the Sienna Axle carrier it was still attached to a very clean 2005 3MZ-FE. so for 700 bucks i bought the entire thing. in the course of 1 day, i pulled my hybrid, and installed the 3MZ. now for the good part. I have no DBW, im using the 1MZ intake manifold and throttle body. I had to slightly modify the throttle body because the water ports were hitting the slightly larger 3MZ heads. No big deal since i never run water through the throttle body anyways.

now for ease of the swap, it was a perfect plug and play. well almost. because i wanted to i also bought a Solara E153 so i needed axles, the nice thing is i had a set right here for my 7th gen. you see we figured out a way to adapt the E153 to bolt to a 2ZZ for us big power guys. I could have easily used my stock S54 and only needed a new clutch disk.

Now for power, you cant compare a Camry to a Celica, the Camry weighs so much more, and was it a 5 speed? thats another big difference.

You have seen my Dyno im sure. I make 20 more HP 2000 RPMs sooner.

ill add more, gotta do some work.

[mi645]

I live in Cali and when people keep saying v6 will pass smog in Cali sure... It will pass in the Camry not the Celica u will not pass visual inspection first of all and second the test would be completely different. I'd have to get the car bar'd in order to have a legal swap so when everyone keeps saying Cali and v6 do not be fooled same process same bs ur gonna need a fake smog

[ILoveMySilly97]

I live in Cali and when people keep saying v6 will pass smog in Cali sure... It will pass in the Camry not the Celica u will not pass visual inspection first of all and second the test would be completely different. I'd have to get the car bar'd in order to have a legal swap so when everyone keeps saying Cali and v6 do not be fooled same process same bs ur gonna need a fake smog

the 1mzfe is a BAR'able engine for my car. As long as it's our of the solara, Camry, or the es300.

[kurt95gt]

I live in Cali and when people keep saying v6 will pass smog in Cali sure... It will pass in the Camry not the Celica u will not pass visual inspection first of all and second the test would be completely different. I'd have to get the car bar'd in order to have a legal swap so when everyone keeps saying Cali and v6 do not be fooled same process same bs ur gonna need a fake smog

Smaay done it without a problem

[Smaay]

I live in Cali and when people keep saying v6 will pass smog in Cali sure... It will pass in the Camry not the Celica u will not pass visual inspection first of all and second the test would be completely different. I'd have to get the car bar'd in order to have a legal swap so when everyone keeps saying Cali and v6 do not be fooled same process same bs ur gonna need a fake smog

the 1mzfe is a BAR'able engine for my car. As long as it's our of the solara, Camry, or the es300.

Yes the 1MZ is a passable engine. and as far as CA is concerned, im running a 1MZ. the rule is the engine has to be same year or newer than the car it gets installed in.

I live in Cali and when people keep saying v6 will pass smog in Cali sure... It will pass in the Camry not the Celica u will not pass visual inspection first of all and second the test would be completely different. I'd have to get the car bar'd in order to have a legal swap so when everyone keeps saying Cali and v6 do not be fooled same process same bs ur gonna need a fake smog

Smaay done it without a problem

I have not passed mine yet, i have not mounted the charcoal canister. because im using 2002 Solara ECU its looking for the newer style EVAP canister. Im going to get a 97 Camry ECU which uses the same canister as my 97 celica. If i had a 99 Celica i would be golden. in 99 the celica came with the newer style canister.

[ILoveMySilly97]

Too add on. I've been researching about BAR in Ca for a year now for my future engine rebuild or swap. Basically as long as the engine is the same year or newer and is TRANSFERRED from a car to a car them it's fine. If it's out of a truck to a car then it's a no go. So you can't get a 1mz out of the T100 and expect to pass smog in a Celica.

So far the only engine I have in mind of swapping into my car is the 1mzfe. If not, then I'll just rebuild my engine. The 5sfe is a fun engine to drive around with. The torque isn't bad but once you're in 3rd.....no fun. Lol.

[Smaay]

All things being equal I put my money of the V6. The thing with the FTO though is despite being a V6 it makes less torque than the 5S does. The 1MZ on the other hand makes over 200 ft lbs. Even with the Solara weighing in at some 3,250 pounds it'll hit 60 in 7.1 seconds. So imagine shaving off some 600-700 pounds off of that. It's still easier to get any part for the 1MZ though, no cross referencing and what not just find parts for a Camry and done. I don't see why you insist the 1MZ needs a rebuild though. Within my family alone there have been over 10 1MZ's most with over 200K miles on them with no problems whatsoever on the original engine. Yes yes the sludge problem, but that's only a problem if it was neglected. Besides, it's worth going 1MZ for the sole fact it won't sound like a bumble bee with gas.

this is all correct. I have never seen any correlation that a 1MZ sludges any more than any other engine. Lack of maintenance is all placed on the owner, you cant blame the engine for that. Its amazing how many people just put gas in and go. they never bother with anything else.



here is my dyno again. im making 215 ft lbs of TQ at 2500 RPMs.


you will never see results like that in a 4 banger N/A and i even doubt it boosted.

[RabidTRD]

The to(FTO?) is fwd not awd btw.
Had a read up on the FTO to make sure my info is right
147.1Kw @ 7,500rpm
200Nm @ 6,000rpm
5s-fe
101Kw @ 5,400rpm
197Nm @ 4,400rpm





But since this is beams vs v6/MZ lets concentrate on these engines

beams
146.9Kw @ 7,000rpm
206Nm @ 6,000rpm

1mz-fe vvti
156Kw @ 5,800rpm
328Nm @ 4,400rpm


vvti is continuously varying throughout the rpm range, it is based on load and rpm and doesn't 'kick in.' the intake cam advances low rpm and retards higher rpm. Can post my graphs of this if its of help to this discussion.


Since the 1mz-fe is an fe head, What is the head set up? how do the camshafts run, are they scissor cam like the 5sfe?




Also everyone posting, keep the posting clean

I was about to say, I didn't feel any "kick in" when driving Dustin's car. It was just continuous power all the way to 7k rpm.

[ILoveMySilly97]

^So the beams engine. The vvti is not set to switch on at a certain rpm but depends on how much gas you're putting into it? Meaning the vvti can be activated at a low rpm like 2500 and also can be revved at high rpm like 5000 without the vvti activated?

[mi645]

I've seen a bunch of mr2 v6 1mz swapped and went to bar and failed. Here personally in ca or waste a Ton of money just to get it approved

[kurt95gt]

I've seen a bunch of mr2 v6 1mz swapped and went to bar and failed. Here personally in ca or waste a Ton of money just to get it approved

OK we get it
In your eyes there in no legal swap for a celica in ca

[mi645]

Gosh... I was just saying... Lol what ever

[Box]

here is my dyno again. im making 215 ft lbs of TQ at 2500 RPMs.


you will never see results like that in a 4 banger N/A and i even doubt it boosted.

The Saab Viggen made 252 ft lb at 2,500 RPM with a turbo 2.3 I4. That's about the only one the comes to mind at the moment though.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 3:03 PM

[RabidTRD]

^So the beams engine. The vvti is not set to switch on at a certain rpm but depends on how much gas you're putting into it? Meaning the vvti can be activated at a low rpm like 2500 and also can be revved at high rpm like 5000 without the vvti activated?

That's what it felt like. Dustin may have to correct me on this if I'm wrong though. It's not like a VTEC system at all and feels much more refined and consistent. VTEC feels like an underpowered car with a turbo strapped on that is too big and has a lot of turbo lag.

[BonzaiCelica]

FTO is a 2.0 liter v6 engine thats why SS-III beats it.

stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me

with my beams the gears are just where i like them

and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.

smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:00 PM

[kurt95gt]

FTO is a 2.0 liter v6 engine thats why SS-III beats it.

stock for stock i'd choose the beams over a pre 97 1mzfe. the vvt-i 1mzfe that comes with 210 hp stock I would put in my celica. i just don't like the fact that gearing won't be well suited with the transmission because the 1mzfe makes power at 6k as to where the beams make power at 7,000 rpm. the heavier e153 trans wouldn't be an option for me

with my beams the gears are just where i like them

and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.

smaay you drive a supra and turbo 2zz. your so accustomed to torque you can't live without it. ha

No those numbers are from the full 3mz running a stock 1mz ecu I do beleave
Don't think the hybrid made it to the dyno

[Batman722]

Smaay, you're diluting facts.

First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.

I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.

No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.

The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.

Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.

Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.

You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.

[RabidTRD]

I'm still going to run a BEAMS when I can afford it. I've already got the suspension where I want it, exhaust is good. I have a Tanabe Medallion G-Power long-tube header that's designed for the 3S-GE sitting on my shelf next to me, waiting to be installed, but I might just wait until I get the BEAMS.

I need a swap personally that is simply plug and play. The BEAMS is that. It's more cost effective, and time efficient. I have only one vehicle. I would take a week off of work to install it, figure out the bugs and get it ready to be run long term. I don't have many months and a second car to use while figuring out all the BS I'd have to deal with in the 1MZ.

In my mind, the BEAMS is far superior, that's why I'm really curious to see how this match up goes.

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

[Smaay]

and smaay how you compare those dynos with a stock beams. you have an aftermarket ecu and tune/hybrid motor. personally i just like the fact that beams came in a celica from the factory.

Smaay, you're diluting facts.

First, I'm well aware you're set up is more powerful than any N/A Beams, in fact we all are. You have a rebuilt 3mz bottom end with 1m heads and electronics with an e153, ect. That's a fantastic set up without a doubt.

I'm stating my stock Beams would run (and IMO) take a swapped 1mz-fe in a Celica. Their overall stats are close and I think the Beams would pull it. It's just a matter of time before it's settled irl.

No n/a 4cyl would beat a 3mz or your hybrid. Case closed.

The facts I see you diluting are this:
Cost of swap and ease of swap.

Starting with ease, both motors fit in the bay. A V6 would need a custom pass mount, a Beams would need stock. You say the V6's wiring was almost plug and play, that's BS. Beams is 3-4 wires, plugs in, starts, drives. How about exhaust manifolds and ECUs ? You mixed and matched parts to make yours work. Beams is all stock. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a few more I'll think of later.

Cost: My Beams w/tranny, ECU, ect was $1654 to my door. We both need clutches, I replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioners, couple of gaskets, ect, nothing you haven't done or wouldn't do. My Beams swap cost me about $2300 maybe (+exhaust), and that's pushing it.
You rebuilt your motor, used an e153, MR2 inners, all trac outers, & spacer, couple of mounts from an st205, mixed and matched parts to make yours work. All of those cost good $ + the price of the motor(s). Not to mention you still want to get a different canister and ECU, those aren't free for most people. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong but I would guess that the e153 +axles, mounts, ecus, headers, the machine shop work, and clutch, gaskets, ect, would be around $1600. Now the average person can't do the wiring, so you have to factor in how much tweek or mr220v charges for wiring, and you're at $2000 + the cost of a motor - US motor, most likely higher mileage and neglected, which means a rebuild, which costs more $.

You cannot tell me that swapping a V6 is cheaper and easier than a Beams.
Maybe you get parts and have work done free or cheap, I assume you have very good resources but in reality the average person doesn't. These things add up.

didnt you guys read my first post. im using an un opened right off the shelf 3MZ. i took off the 3MZ intake manifold and put on my 1MZ manifold. Im using a stock 2002 Solara ECU. i have never used an aftermarket ECU.

I got the engine with harness for 700, ECU was 100, clutch disk would be something like 60-100. and wiring i could have done myself, i am an electrical engineer, im just lazy and didnt have the time.

so right there i could have done this swap for about 1000 bucks.

I chose to do extra things like E153, fidanza Flywheel, and a few misc things.

the passenger mount i did fab up myself which can be duplicated.

[njccmd2002]

IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.

Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.

But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.

The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.

10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.

But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.

[njccmd2002]

edit;

its like swapping a 2nd gen 3sgte today, when the 3rd gens are so easy to get..

[Box]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:11 PM

[Box]

Not to say I have a problem with 4-cylinders as an engine. I'd totally take a SS-III or GT-Four, it'd just have the world's quietest exhaust system.

[njccmd2002]

are chocobos I4 V6 or V8

[Box]

Parallel 2.

[Smaay]

IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.

Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.

But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.

The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.

10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.

But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.

and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.

[richee3]

I'm not getting involved in an argument in any way, shape, or form, but I do want to share my opinion here. First things first: Ken, VVT-i on the BEAMS, 1MZ, and virtually all if not every new Toyota engine is constantly "on" and constantly adjusting from the moment you turn the key until the moment you kill the engine. It's not set to any specific timing at any specific RPM. It changes depending on throttle position, load, speed, etc. It's not to be confused with Honda's VTEC, Lift on the 2ZZ engine, or even the older VVT (not VVT-i) of the 4A-GE which are all sort of "on" and "off" in a way.

Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.

Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.

[Smaay]

^^^^^ well said sir!

[njccmd2002]

IMO the only worth v6 engine to put extra work to wire in the celica now a days is a 2gr.

Beams was easy for me, ive never done it before, with the right tools, anyone can wire and swap the beams. Its like going to the lego store and just putting in the new block you just got.

But to each is own. I will not spend time researching, or brainstorming on the older v6 engines. sorry guys, im a practical guy.

The beams swap in my case, i dropped it in. with 35 k miles, i did not even change the clutch. well at least the first year.

10 years ago, the 1mz was probably the right choice, beams were not available as now, and the 2gr were a dream.

But times change. Its like still believing that older Ford vehicles will not nickle and dime you to death, and that Kias warranty is the best on the market.

and you are entitled to your opinion. The 2GR is a monster engine but to get it running in a celica is a ton more work. there is no getting around the DBW on the 2GR, so you need to install a gas pedal and much more wiring. plus the 2GR is a taller engine, i dont know if it will fit without a GT4 hood. And then there is cost. 2GR's are NOT CHEAP! i would actually got 3rd gen 3S instead of 2GR.

Lol what was the cost of a second gen 10 years ago. Ton of wiring and custom stuff to be made. But people did it regArdless the cost.

Its called innovation. 10 years into the future its called old news. Old tech. Never said it was easy. But its the only worth swap id do. Sorry old news are old news. 1mzs belong in soccer vans, to carry bunch of kids and gatorade to football practice.

Not offending anyone. But its time to move on and accept the future.

Is anyone still using the iphone 3s. I have a 5 now.

Oh and i forgot... Its not personal. Its business....

[bsamps4]

Why don't we let the numbers speak for themselves. I'd like to see some 1/4 track times for BOTH engines...Modded and stock...

[njccmd2002]

Numbers? Where we going we dont need numbers...

[Box]

Except for the 1.21 gigawatts to get there.

[bsamps4]

Would be nice to have a track time averages page. That way we could average them all together for ALL of the swaps, and have it listed on a sweet sexy spread sheet.

[Box]

Did someone say sexy spread sheet?

[bsamps4]

faawwwwk yea!!!

[Box]

I need my velvet smoking jacket, I shall return.

[njccmd2002]

I tought it was a yellow chocobo jacket....

[presure2]

I'm not getting involved in an argument in any way, shape, or form, but I do want to share my opinion here. First things first: Ken, VVT-i on the BEAMS, 1MZ, and virtually all if not every new Toyota engine is constantly "on" and constantly adjusting from the moment you turn the key until the moment you kill the engine. It's not set to any specific timing at any specific RPM. It changes depending on throttle position, load, speed, etc. It's not to be confused with Honda's VTEC, Lift on the 2ZZ engine, or even the older VVT (not VVT-i) of the 4A-GE which are all sort of "on" and "off" in a way.

Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.

Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.

ding ding ding....ladies, and gentelmen, we have a winner.
/thread.

[richee3]

Forgot to mention- Ted, that header will not fit the BEAMS, if that's what you meant by waiting until you get one. The BEAMS comes with a factory header, which is actually a good design. Toyota put some welds inside the header and a few people have chose to grind those down for minimal gains, but otherwise there are only one or two headers actually designed for the BEAMS and I haven't ever found one for sale.

[BonzaiCelica]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

yea okay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA

[RabidTRD]

That sounds terrible IMO. I really don't like the sound of Honda engines.

Forgot to mention- Ted, that header will not fit the BEAMS, if that's what you meant by waiting until you get one. The BEAMS comes with a factory header, which is actually a good design. Toyota put some welds inside the header and a few people have chose to grind those down for minimal gains, but otherwise there are only one or two headers actually designed for the BEAMS and I haven't ever found one for sale.

Why won't it? Isn't the 3S-GE the same head as the beams? Just with different internals?

[Box]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

yea okay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA

Thanks for proving my point.

[BonzaiCelica]

how does that sound terrible it sounds like a race car no rasp? you American!



This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 26, 2013 - 10:47 PM

[Box]

Sounds like a bumble bee with gas.

[Syaoran]

Quick question: Isn't the VVT-i on the BEAMS engine exclusively change the exhaust cam timing?

How is that beneficial at all, aside from better-controlled emissions?

[Box]

It varies only the intake timing.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 27, 2013 - 5:52 AM

[richee3]

Why won't it? Isn't the 3S-GE the same head as the beams? Just with different internals?

The head on the BEAMS is actually totally different. The intake and exhaust ports are in a different location and different shape, internals are totally different, etc. The head on the BEAMS is exclusive and it will outflow any other head Toyota ever made and even outflow a Honda S2000 head.

Quick question: Isn't the VVT-i on the BEAMS engine exclusively change the exhaust cam timing?

How is that beneficial at all, aside from better-controlled emissions?

The Redtop and Greytop use intake cam enabled VVT-i, same as any newer engine. The Blacktop used dual VVT-i on both the intake and exhaust cam, and that's where the exhaust valve timing really only affected emissions.

[Box]

Then you have VVTL-i that varies both the lift and duration for both the intake and exhaust, such as in the 2ZZ-GE.

[czwalga]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

yea okay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA

Blah....


Only 4 cylinders that sound good are boxers. Subaru's Porsche's. thats it. I'm embarrased for the sound of my rally car.

[richee3]

The 2ZZ was still only intake cam enabled.

[Smaay]

A 3mz-fe would be better but I don't like the drive by wire set up, problems will arise.
A 2gr would be overkill and would kill our 15-19 year old cars.

im not diluting facts, and the fact that you have such bad information makes your point moot! Im running a 3MZ with no DBW, and saying a 2GR would kill our cars is a VERY VERY poor statement. please enlighten me how a 275 HP engine will "KILL" our car?

there are TONS of 350+ HP 6th gens out there. they are not dead?

next time you want to bash my facts, have something to back it up.

[Batman722]

Great, 6GC is back up and priority #1, more drama in this thread

The facts I believe you're diluting were cost and ease of the swap, as I stated clearly.

You're running a 1m manifold, throttle body, and electronics with a 3m bottom end to avoid the DBW, we're aware.
That goes along with the the cost and ease statements - so if someone was swapping a 3m would you recommend they getting parts from a 1m also ? Gotta buy more parts to make it work ? Why not just run the full 3m parts and wiring ? Why mix and match ? I would think that using the parts that came with the motor would be less expensive than sourcing parts from another motor. I know it was easier for you because you just swapped the bottom end of your original 1m set up, right ? But for the average person...not cheap and easy. Not everyone has the resources you do. Cost and ease.

Facts to back it up.
My 95 st205 swap. My chassis was tearing itself apart. I made 300 ftlbs of torque (at high RPM) and my 18 year old chassis wasn't keeping up.
I can only speak from my experience and what I've seen on other Celicas. I live in the northeast and winters take their toll. Someone who lives and has a car in the southern part of the US (or Cali) probably doesn't have to be too concerned about this yet but in my part of the world, we do. I parted my 205 swap because many of the seams were starting to get rusted, rotted, cracked, and overstresed from wear and tear. It was something I monitored for years in my car. If I had a 5s and daily drove it it would of lasted a lot longer. There is no doubt that the hp and more importantly the torque is what accelerated the death of my chassis. I see it on a lot of Celicas.
Now you're big thing is huge torque at low rpms, right ? Lot's a lot of torque in daily driving situations to help kill the chassis. People who build great motor set ups with high hp and torque know the additional stress that get put on the chassis and they super strengthen them up for this reason. You'd be hard pressed to find a Celica without stress issues, and even if you do, it has issues and you wouldn't even know until it's too late.

[bnr32celica]

I'm not going to stir the pot at all here.

Dustin and I were conversating about this Saturday night. I believe that in my heart of hearts, the NEXT time around, the swap can be done around $1000-$1300. I'm into it way more than that this time around (you wouldn't believe all the stupid little crap that pops up here and there when doing a swap). I also spent money to try and develop some parts to make the swap truly bolt-in (such as a custom passenger axle for s54 guys that is being tested in a 98 GT right now with some success, I think I may need it to be about 1/8" longer though).

The point is, we all love these damn cars, and everyone has a preference. Me, I prefer torque off idle. doesn't make me a bad person (well, maybe the handle of Jagermeister that motivated me to make the memes does lol). What started out as a funny joke caused 6gc to asplode with torque, rev, and red paint.

[RabidTRD]

I'm just going to leave this here....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2366728359/...51884034358360/

[Smaay]

Great, 6GC is back up and priority #1, more drama in this thread

The facts I believe you're diluting were cost and ease of the swap, as I stated clearly.

You're running a 1m manifold, throttle body, and electronics with a 3m bottom end to avoid the DBW, we're aware.
That goes along with the the cost and ease statements - so if someone was swapping a 3m would you recommend they getting parts from a 1m also ? Gotta buy more parts to make it work ? Why not just run the full 3m parts and wiring ? Why mix and match ? I would think that using the parts that came with the motor would be less expensive than sourcing parts from another motor. I know it was easier for you because you just swapped the bottom end of your original 1m set up, right ? But for the average person...not cheap and easy. Not everyone has the resources you do. Cost and ease.

Facts to back it up.
My 95 st205 swap. My chassis was tearing itself apart. I made 300 ftlbs of torque (at high RPM) and my 18 year old chassis wasn't keeping up.
I can only speak from my experience and what I've seen on other Celicas. I live in the northeast and winters take their toll. Someone who lives and has a car in the southern part of the US (or Cali) probably doesn't have to be too concerned about this yet but in my part of the world, we do. I parted my 205 swap because many of the seams were starting to get rusted, rotted, cracked, and overstresed from wear and tear. It was something I monitored for years in my car. If I had a 5s and daily drove it it would of lasted a lot longer. There is no doubt that the hp and more importantly the torque is what accelerated the death of my chassis. I see it on a lot of Celicas.
Now you're big thing is huge torque at low rpms, right ? Lot's a lot of torque in daily driving situations to help kill the chassis. People who build great motor set ups with high hp and torque know the additional stress that get put on the chassis and they super strengthen them up for this reason. You'd be hard pressed to find a Celica without stress issues, and even if you do, it has issues and you wouldn't even know until it's too late.

thats true you are in the car cancer section of the world. Its nice living in a climate that you dont have to worry about rust.

Yes in my swap you do need to buy a few extra parts. if you search properly, you can attain those fairly cheap. If you were to go plain 1MZ, which is my next project, it will still be cheaper. I already have the engine but i just did a search and i can find complete 1MZ with harness and ECU for $635. ill need a hybrid clutch disk. and build another pass mount and Y pipe. so im going to do this swap for just about 1000 bucks.

[Smaay]

I just pulled this list from the BEAMS owners website.

TOP HP:
(Note: All measurements taken 'At the wheels')

1. mandalay 316hp atw (Rotrex supercharger)
2. Celica RA45 240whp @ 8600
3. Maikl 186whp @ 6800
4. 2old2rusty 184.41 PS
5. ?? ST202 owner: 180whp@6694rpm
6. MR2.org.nz member: 170whp
7. Roman: 170whp @ 6800
8. stados 165hp @ 6077
9. nikk1877 163hp @ 7700
10.Puretone: 158whp
11. RST: 157whp @ 6520
12. Nikki1877: 154whp
13. dacoupe 153hp atw
14. WaynoFX: 147whp @ 6800
15. Ducatichick 145whp @ 7175

im sorry but for the cost of the swap and the results, i flat out dont see the justification. the top 2 must be boosted. but after that the high is 180 HP and the low 140 HP. so that puts the average in at 160. Sure its an improvement over the 5S and 7A. And the BEAMS does have a cool factor. Ill give it that. Its just personally, i dont see the gains justifying the cost.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Sep 30, 2013 - 11:41 AM

[kurt95gt]

Don't even care about this anymore lol
My last thoughts on this.
Yes I put an economy motor in my car
But I'd bet my Avalon motor hasn't been ran as hard in the 140k its been in a car as a beams with the same milage.

Both are great swaps it all depends on what you like.
Honestly if you haven't rode in a v6 celica stfu because you don't know how the motor is in a celica. Saying of I drove a v6 Camry.
Yea let's throw a beams in a camry with a autotragic trans an see how sporty it feels.
I took mine to a meet this weekend that was hosted by celicatech
Had a guy with a st165 riding with me that said theres Noway his altrac could keep up with my 1mz an a guy fallowing with a 4gen swapped altrac that swears I was pulling on him in 3rd gear an kept pulling till my tail lights came on.
So I'm now fully aware of what my car can do.
Will it beat a 3s swapped 2wd....no not a chance.
Will it keep up with a beams....yes
Will it out run a beams....yes if your running it 100% stock electronics...speed cut must suck for you guys.
Will it beat one in a quarter mile....maybe its really gonna come down to the drivers.
There's really nothing to compare between the 2 motors
If you truly like the beams you probably won't like the 1mz
If you truly like the 1mz you probably won't like the beams as much.

Your beams if amazing Dustin. You'll never hear me say otherwise.
If you didn't tell me I'd think your car was 100% stock. Feel just like a celica should feel.....stock.
But I didn't spend all my time an money just to have my celica feel stock. I wanted something that I could baby around town an get decent mpg but blow the tires apart with a tap of the throttle. But didn't want a turbo. My 1mz gives me just that. Feels just like a 5s with small light throttle inputs. But smash it to the floor an the tires start to scream an the exhaust starts to sing a song that normally can only be heard in high end exotic cars.

That is what I wanted an that is what I built.
I built it to be different an it worked.
If it catches on an more being do it cool. If not...cool.
I did it for me. I realize that now.
Random ranting an rambling over

[Box]

The 2ZZ was still only intake cam enabled.

Here are the cam specs for the 2ZZ-GE:


Now if you meant timing only that'd be the case.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 30, 2013 - 3:02 PM

[rdyzz]

i'd love to have a 1mz or 2gr in a celica that being said its not comparable lol. your comparing a v6 with 1000cc more displacement to a 4 cylinder engine, not amount of valve lift, valve timing technology is gonna make a 2L have the torque of a 3L of the same era. the 90% torque at 2,000 rpm would be fun on the streets, i drove a 5spd 1mzfe camry years back and loved it, well it wasnt able to make much use of that torque around corners but regardless it was fun.

aside from my late iac issues i've beaten the heck out of my beams 3sge and its delivered everytime, i even over heated it once due to a burst coolant line, got the temp to 3/4 twice due to a failed radiator cap at the track and a weak fuel pump causing lean initial throttle. my 3sge has taken all these pretty well. so i guess this is what i care about and think about when i rate an engine. no point in an engine making more hp/tq if you cant use it or it cant last long. and i dont doubt the v6's in fact my next sw20 build might have one in it.

This post has been edited by rdyzz: Sep 30, 2013 - 4:33 PM

[Box]

I'd consider a red-top BEAMS, found a few that had the engine, ECU, harness, and transmission for $1,300. Either way they're both better than the econobox Corolla and Camry engines that came in the car originally. As long as you're making an improvement to the car then I don't really see the issue at hand, it just becomes a matter of personal preference. We should be concentrating this energy towards hating on Hondas.

[presure2]

That is what I wanted an that is what I built.
I built it to be different an it worked.
If it catches on an more being do it cool. If not...cool.
I did it for me. I realize that now.

best post in this dumbass thread.

comparing a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm, and a I4 that makes 90% of its power above 4500rpm is really stupid, imo.
it really is all about how the individual wants the car to feel, and drive.
the best way to find out which setup is for you is to seek out someone who has whatever setup your interested in, and drive it, or at least ride in it.

if 5-600$ diffrence between one setup or the other is the determining factor on a swap, you shouldnt be swapping, period.

if your doing a swap because someone told you one setup is better than another, you should be swapping, period.

[kurt95gt]

That is what I wanted an that is what I built.
I built it to be different an it worked.
If it catches on an more being do it cool. If not...cool.
I did it for me. I realize that now.

best post in this dumbass thread.

comparing a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm, and a I4 that makes 90% of its power above 4500rpm is really stupid, imo.
it really is all about how the individual wants the car to feel, and drive.
the best way to find out which setup is for you is to seek out someone who has whatever setup your interested in, and drive it, or at least ride in it.

if 5-600$ diffrence between one setup or the other is the determining factor on a swap, you shouldnt be swapping, period.

if your doing a swap because someone told you one setup is better than another, you should be swapping, period.

Yea I'm the smartest dumbass lol

[bluecelicawife]

I'm not jumping in on the debate cause I love my husband and I am proud of the work we have done on the v6 and at some point I would love for my 7a to be a beams. But the biggest kick I've gotten in a while is to know he's the smartest dumbass....lol

[Box]

The trophy is already in the mail.

[kurt95gt]

The trophy is already in the mail.

Sweet!!

[malpaso]

...a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm...

Aaaaah. I want V6! (or diesel )

it really is all about how the individual wants the car to feel, and drive

Manny ... Lets carve this quote to the stone for next generations. That is exactly why not much people get why I do with car things I do . Why I paid for custom build turbine, why it rented dyno for whole day to have map that meets my expectation...

[blackliftback]

...a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm...

Obviously... Because it does redline at 5k lol jk

[bluecelicawife]

...a v6 that makes 95% of its power below 5k rpm...

Obviously... Because it does redline at 5k lol jk

Kurt says nope 6200

[kurt95gt]

Well fuel cut is at 6200 lol
My first gear lives near there most days lol

[Smaay]

something i want to make real clear here. This is a friendly debate over a choice in engines. I am not attacking anyone personally or tried to, nor have i taken any difference of opinion personally. Sure disagreements can get heated, but i want everyone to know, nothing is personal. With that said, time for some funnies.

I challenge anyone to make better ones.












This post has been edited by Smaay: Oct 1, 2013 - 12:55 PM

[kurt95gt]

Love the last one
Any car meme that uses that lil boys pic is instantly funny lol

[Smaay]

oops i got typos, oh well




Ill take this one down if it offends anyone, I had to drop an FBomb in there somewhere



This post has been edited by Smaay: Oct 1, 2013 - 1:14 PM

[Batman722]

something i want to make real clear here. This is a friendly debate over a choice in engines. I am not attacking anyone personally or tried to, nor have i taken any difference of opinion personally. Sure disagreements can get heated, but i want everyone to know, nothing is personal. With that said, time for some funnies.

I challenge anyone to make better ones.

oops i got typos, oh well




Ill take this one down if it offends anyone, I had to drop an FBomb in there somewhere

They are funny.
I'm secure enough in my Beamshood to not let this bother me because I know the truth.

I'm not going to play with your little challenge, I'm not a douche bag. I don't feel I need a funny meme to prove a point, I just use facts.
Nothing personal.

[storm26]

Please don't hate me, but I'm searching for a Beams swap for a while and can't find any decent with axles or even a whole front cut I'm sorry to junk this thread with that, but search button wasn't my friend, nor was the ebay and I'm searching that because my engine is slowly increasing the amount of oil consumption. Any websites or anything welcome!

So yes, also my vote goes for Beams, since living in Europe I was able to drive 3S Celicas and I love the 7k or more redlining but I can't say anything against V6 since I don't know how they perform in our cars and you always have to at least respect the amount of labor, love, enthusiasm and ofcoure money was put in something like swapping totally different engine especially doing it first without any info behind. And looking Smaays video, that V6 is a BEAST in the car

Cheers

EDIT: I forgot to mention, my car is AT, not ST chassis

This post has been edited by storm26: Oct 1, 2013 - 3:01 PM

[richee3]

All you need for a BEAMS is the motor, harness, and ECU. It uses the same trans as a GT so it will use the same axles. Huge bonuses for a BEAMS set are the OEM intake a B pipe, though neither is 100% necessary.

/ thread jack.

This post has been edited by richee3: Oct 1, 2013 - 2:26 PM

[Smaay]

I will concur, the BEAMS is an easier swap.

I'm not going to play with your little challenge, I'm not a douche bag. I don't feel I need a funny meme to prove a point, I just use facts.
Nothing personal.

No comment

This post has been edited by Smaay: Oct 1, 2013 - 2:39 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

power for beams is at 7k rpm

max power for 1mzfe??

[Box]

According to factory flywheel numbers the BEAMS gives a gain of 62 hp over the 5S, so where did 40 come from? I'm all up for the V6, as by now if you don't know that I love torque you've been living under a rock. Though after looking on eBay I don't see how the BEAMS can cost that terribly much more at this point. I've seen a lot of them now for $1,400 or less and that's including the engine, LSD transmission, harness, and ECU. Some even include the MAF sensor as well. From looking at recent V6 swaps the only way I can see getting it done for the same amount of money would be to find a Camry/Solara donor for about $500. Then still need the custom mount, harness, and half-shafts and few other niggles here and there. It'd be great if the V6 could be brought to the plug and play level the BEAMS has.

[Box]

power for beams is at 7k rpm

max power for 1mzfe??

The Solara had 200 hp at 5,200 RPM and 214 ft lb at 4,400 RPM. If you find the rare TRD supercharged one hp and torque go to 242. The 1MZ in the Lexus ES made a little more than the Solara, but it required premium.

[kurt95gt]

power for beams is at 7k rpm

max power for 1mzfe??

The Solara had 200 hp at 5,200 RPM and 214 ft lb at 4,400 RPM. If you find the rare TRD supercharged one hp and torque go to 242. The 1MZ in the Lexus ES made a little more than the Solara, but it required premium.

I need to check my ecu again
I might be running the wrong gas lol

power for beams is at 7k rpm

max power for 1mzfe??

Here's an idea
You an smaay live in the same state why don't you guys meet up at a track an see who's faster

[Box]

power for beams is at 7k rpm

max power for 1mzfe??

Here's an idea
You an smaay live in the same state why don't you guys meet up at a track an see who's faster

Why didn't anyone think of this ages ago?