Upgrading to an 8 speaker system, with shallow woofer on door, Woofer is in, 12/21/13 Options

[njccmd2002]

winter came, and although everyones excuse is that is to cold to work, i got 2 new toys...

Mr Toasty



and mr smelly



they need to be together to ensure my safety...

so decided once the temp was TOASTY... 75F in garage, to tackle one door...



i was checking this speaker here..



i was making some noises, so i hooked it up to my testing system when it blew,



when it fell off my hands... cuz i got scared...



then a little bird told me



that it was time to upgrade, so i took out the box i had for months...



and just finished the wiring...




These are 4 inch rockford Fosgate, that will complement my 8 inch...



next stop, GMAT... Questions?

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Dec 21, 2013 - 2:34 PM

[Batman722]

Looks good Berto.
How do you like that sandblast cabinet ?

[SwissFerdi]

I really like RF's sub line, so I'm curious if the mid-range speakers provide the same clear, full sound?

[Box]

What you get for blasting your rap music.

I have an 1,000W RF sub I need to get around to putting into the Celica, versus just sitting in front of my synthesizers in the way. I've heard good things about the rest of their line though. I know they make good amplifiers too, at least the older American made stuff anyhow.

[njccmd2002]

What you get for blasting your rap music.

I have an 1,000W RF sub I need to get around to putting into the Celica, versus just sitting in front of my synthesizers in the way. I've heard good things about the rest of their line though. I know they make good amplifiers too, at least the older American made stuff anyhow.

I used to have alpine, but switching over...

I really like RF's sub line, so I'm curious if the mid-range speakers provide the same clear, full sound?

Once I'm done I'll let u know...

Looks good Berto.
How do you like that sandblast cabinet ?

Love it, can't tell you how much I've used it...

[richee3]

I'll be interested to know how you like the Fosgates as well. I have Alpine Type R's at the moment and I'm wanting to replace them.

[njccmd2002]

so Im upgrading now, and just having a dilemma.... ive got an amp, its not great. but i can use it two ways.

1. just power the 8 inch speakers, but use the sub / mono rca from radio, and hook up the rest to the radio.

2. Power all speakers by amp, and use a crossover in the front to have just bass directed to the 8 inches.




if i do option 2, i would need to remove the capacitors already in the small speakers so i can properly use the crossover, as i dont want to filter, and refilter. what would be a good crossover?

Option number one will require for me to rewire new lines to the 8 inch. which is not a difficult task, but it will take a minute....

what would you do?

[Box]

I'd go option 1, in that regard you'd just be treating the 8's like you would a subwoofer.

[Box]

Reason being the head-unit will be able to drive the tweeters and mid-ranges just fine, and that leaves all of the amp's power to driving the 8's.

This post has been edited by Box: Nov 29, 2013 - 12:09 AM

[njccmd2002]

thats what i thought. Snap, the rewiring is going to be fun. since Im going to do it OEM. This time it will be pro...

[Box]

It's not that bad, and it'll be worth it in the end. Plus you should have a little more flexibility sound wise, along with more direct control with the head-unit this way. The only time I'd run speakers off an amp is if they were beyond what the head-unit could provide. One of these days I'll get around to redoing all of mine.

[perkyshadow]

Hahaha!! Dude, I just got the same 8 inch speakers! I had the system all balanced using option 2, but the 4 inch speakers just pull too much power now. The 8's hardly hit at all. And I've got Rockford Punches for the 4's. I think they take more power than the Primes... I might have that backwards. Either way, I can confirm that option 2 is NOT good. Very sad, actually! Especially since I had the system all nice and balanced before the 02 3-way crossovers fell apart internally, and I opted for better 8's. Too many bumps, I guess.

[njccmd2002]

Ok so option 1 will be. So i remembered long lime ago i saw some wires near the radio, and i did not continue to investigate. Toyota likes to do the things right, and i could only assume the wiring for the 8 speaker must be there... Just the door wiring's must change... right? ....... YES indeed...

so i started unplugging the doors harnesss.





had to cut my Jdm folding mirrors.... lol



to completely get the wiring out be careful with this clip, or youll break it...



Going back to the radio area, ( I dont have the amp anymore, and center console is out) you see this little plug....



that plug is speaker wiring that i traced to the doors, except it ends on the female plug.



and yes i tested it with a multimeter. And the color pattern remains the same.... YAY!!

so i gots this from my stash



actually had an old plug, lol



and plugged them in the Male harness of the door, from there i will continue once I clean the mess i made...



So there you go, no need to rewire the main cabin, just the door harness.. I may do the same with the JDM folding mirrrors, now that i have the door harness out....

just because i think the jdm mirrors wiring looks tacky.

[njccmd2002]

ok so im having trouble deciding, lol...

this is what i have on the doors... PPS4-8 Punch Pro 8" 4-Ohm Midrange/Midbass



I love it, but come to realize, its not really a Sub, and it may not give me what I want as sub feeling... the depth is 2.91 inches and frequency of 80Hz-5kHz

i want to stay in the same line... P3SD4-8 8" Punch P3S Shallow 4-Ohm DVC Subwoofer



with a depth of 2.66 and range of 39 hz. but the price, yay, not very forgiving.

unfortunately other subs, are too big...



Im trying to stay away from the box in the trunk, but have best sound available. Im concerned the midrange will not give me the bass I need to have fun... Thats why im considering shallow woofers.

[Special_Edy]

In my celica I run the 4', the 6.5' and the tweeter off of the head unit. Then I have a small 300 watt amp under the driverseat to power the 8" speakers and a 600 watt amp in the trunk to power the 12s

njccmd - it looks like you are missing the extra insulation for the door. There is a metal plate that bolts over the hole in the door and a plastic block that reinforces the door panel. I found mine in a '98 vert in the scrap yard with an 8 speaker setup

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Dec 3, 2013 - 12:20 PM

[The_enD]

Can't beat a subwoofer in the trunk. You could go with a small sealed 8" sub, won't take up much space.
It can be either put in the space between the wheel well and the taillight(will require a lot more fabrication) or just a regular box, if you intend to have it removable, if you constantly need the cargo space.

[Box]

Well, what I'd do is try it out with what you already have. Then if that doesn't cut it buy the 8" shallow subs.

[njccmd2002]

No trunk subs.

I'll try midrange to see sound. I also want to upgrade the rear speakers. But I'll wait for results. Don't want to buy 6.5 foy rear, if I need subs in front and I can fab the midrange for the rear. I want nice sound. With bass, not looking for a lot of boom boom. Nothing against boxes, been there done that.

[Box]

Unless you're doing competitions there's no need for loud overwhelming bass. A subwoofer that matches the total wattage of the rest of your sound system in wattage is enough. I love bass frequencies and want their presence to be heard and to a degree felt, just no need for them to rattle my car apart and blow out my neighbour's windows. Then again, I'm a musician and like hearing my music presented in an authentic representation of what's actually going on. So I see where you're coming from, unlike these young whippersnappers.

[njccmd2002]

Unless you're doing competitions there's no need for loud overwhelming bass. A subwoofer that matches the total wattage of the rest of your sound system in wattage is enough. I love bass frequencies and want their presence to be heard and to a degree felt, just no need for them to rattle my car apart and blow out my neighbour's windows. Then again, I'm a musician and like hearing my music presented in an authentic representation of what's actually going on. So I see where you're coming from, unlike these young whippersnappers.

Thats what i want. I was 20 years old 18 years ago. So i just want to listen to nice sounds. No distortion when i crank volume. Dont want the car next to me to rattle. I keep the top boot in the trunk. Space is limited.

[The_enD]

That's what why I said small...sealed.
Nice response in the overall low range with it taking as little space as possible.

[njccmd2002]

well i bought the shallow woofers, and well see, if they dont sound good, i can make them fit in the rear..

[Box]

If that happens then what will you do for the bottom door? Hopefully this works out. I'm wanting to do a very similar setup myself, just need to find the premium door panels and brackets first.

This post has been edited by Box: Dec 3, 2013 - 10:26 PM

[njccmd2002]

the 8 speaker panels you can make them yourself. i bought the lower grill, and got the upper speaker grills, i cut my door cards... and presto...

[Box]

I suppose I could do that... Just can use whatever grilles are provided with the component set. I just trust the factory's ability of getting things perfectly symmetrical more so than myself.

[njccmd2002]

I suppose I could do that... Just can use whatever grilles are provided with the component set. I just trust the factory's ability of getting things perfectly symmetrical more so than myself.

its really easy, http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...l=speaker+grill

In my celica I run the 4', the 6.5' and the tweeter off of the head unit. Then I have a small 300 watt amp under the driverseat to power the 8" speakers and a 600 watt amp in the trunk to power the 12s

njccmd - it looks like you are missing the extra insulation for the door. There is a metal plate that bolts over the hole in the door and a plastic block that reinforces the door panel. I found mine in a '98 vert in the scrap yard with an 8 speaker setup

found it!!! your pic..

[Box]

I suppose I could do that... Just can use whatever grilles are provided with the component set. I just trust the factory's ability of getting things perfectly symmetrical more so than myself.

its really easy, http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...l=speaker+grill

I was more concerned with cutting out for the mid-range speakers and tweeters, but that's good to know as well. That's ok, I have to get the head-unit sorted first before doing anything else. Once yours is done you should make a video of the system. Still debating between going with door subs or using the the 10" DVC 500W RMS Rockford I have laying around.

[njccmd2002]

easy ...

[Box]

I guess it's just more a matter of getting over cutting holes into your door panels than anything else. So when should the subs be in?

[toyota123]

I have done this as well its absolutely nerve wracking. I was so scared of messing it up on the first one but the second was a cake walk. Just plan it out and have some patience. It's really not that hard

This post has been edited by toyota123: Dec 4, 2013 - 2:16 PM

[njccmd2002]

see there is a trick!!!

its already has area to insert the screws. so you insert the screws, and the speaker will indent the plastic. it guides you to cut where u need.

this is after i drilled holes for the speaker grill.

[njccmd2002]

Lookie here.....

[Box]

Well, that was quick.

[njccmd2002]

BEnefits of amazon prime, and 2 days shipping. Plus i contributed to site, too bad i have to work tonight, otherwise id be putting them on tonight...

[Box]

Call in sick. *cough cough*

[njccmd2002]

Lol it does not fit... So now ? Make it fit.



Screws don't align and terminals are on the way

[toyota123]

Had the same problem with my JL 's I was in too much of a hurry for some bass so mine aren't perfectly center as far as the logo goes but I'll probably fix that when I replace the car

[njccmd2002]

Made them sucks fit. Got creative. I got some free GMAT last year from a new company. Same marterial as dynamat. Hey free is the keyword. Cant believe it takes time to apply. Anyhow do you guys think this is enough or finish all the door......

[The_enD]

For vibration and resonance, coverage of 25% is enough. You are wasting material.
A good read, if you want to get the car silent.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

[njccmd2002]

Got it then. Im done. But it was free and like shiny doors.

[njccmd2002]

added the 6 wires for my clean install. 2 wires are for the subwoofer, and 4 for the jdm mirrors. i did it right this time. using the terminals...



then to do a proper looming, that is a PITa..

removing the old jdm mirror wires and putting new ones.



looking better



even replaced the part number tag. All i need is to solder wires....



all and all, looks factory made...

[Malek]

much clean
wow
very wire

But seriously, nice work! I tape the ends of my wires to a drill and secure the other side to spin it nice and even. It's the little tricks that makes things 100x easier..

[njccmd2002]

Those green and red spiral wires are trash, those are the ones I'm getting rid of, lol. New wires are in the loom.

[Malek]

Ah! Gotcha. I thought you spun those wires by hand haha

My mirror wires won't look nearly as factory..

Once I get around to doing that haha

[SwissFerdi]

its already has area to insert the screws. so you insert the screws, and the speaker will indent the plastic. it guides you to cut where u need.

That's genius, Norberto.

[njccmd2002]

Finishing touches....last few wires...



Door passenger side done... Woofer now on door. Used mdf to make adapter




Just need to rewire the jdm mirrors to the module.




Got to make other door tomorrow. Today first day off after a week...

Ready, get set, go..... Wiring ready. Lol it's a mess, but they are just my donors....



Never can have too many pigtails....



Won't go into detail with other door. Since it technically is the same.

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Dec 13, 2013 - 11:39 PM

[njccmd2002]

Lol, door panels won't fit, speaker to big........ . Custom mount it is.....

[Box]

Noooo....

[njccmd2002]

We'll I kept on wiring my driver door...

Before.



During



After....



I'll tackle the speaker problem some other day....

[njccmd2002]

took some comvincing, and will leave a teaser pic...



tis gunna be dat badazz

[Box]

Still eagerly await completion and a video.

[njccmd2002]

I'm out in gatlingburg, I'll continue when I get back

[Box]

I like that place.

[njccmd2002]

wow cannot believe i never updated... well the mdf adapted was a bust. needed to use steel and plasma cutter...



THIS IS A VIDEO...



driver door is now insulated



and buttoned up



new harness to deliver sound to the woofers on the door..



all missing is to hook up the amp... but wont be until a few months.... sadly..



in the meantime i have to fix a leak....

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Apr 7, 2014 - 7:59 PM

[Batman722]

hahaha nice choice of music.

[njccmd2002]

fm radio!!!

[Special_Edy]

You still need to find the insulation plate. Its a piece of steel that completely covers the hole where the window regulator is. There is also a corresponding plastic piece fastened to the backside of the 8 speaker door cards that rests against the metal plate. With any kind of bass the door cards will rattle unless you have these. Think of your door as being a box for those subs.

[GTMike]

So, is the Rockford Fosgate P3SD4-8 8" Punch P3S Shallow 4-Ohm DVC Subwoofer a free-air subwoofer (not needing a box)?

I have the 8 speaker system. Is there enough power to drive it?

Don't listen to Rap, so major thump-thump is not required. I listen mostly to Industrial Music: Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, KMFDM, etc.

In my Avalon, I had trunk mounted sub that complimented the JBL system. However, that had very nice mid-bass to begin with.

Can't do a trunk mounted sub for cost and space reasons. I will be keeping my convertible boot back there if the weather ever gets warmer.

I am on the fence between the Fosgate mid-woofer and sub-woofer.

Thoughts?

[njccmd2002]

well i dont know, this is from website

The Rockford Fosgate P3S 8" shallow mount subwoofer delivers Punch, even in depth limited situations. Rockford Fosgate understands all vehicles are not the same, because some cannot accommodate deep subwoofers. In the past, that meant no Bass. Not anymore! Now even depth challenged vehicles can have REAL Bass and the Dual Voice Coil allow configurations for every application. Shallow woofers are specifically designed for spaces where a traditional woofer cannot be used.

my door is shallow.... so that is why i bought.... and i need to get the plates special-edy is talking about. im not going to bass it all the way. just needed some hmmmp there it is...

[Special_Edy]

So, is the Rockford Fosgate P3SD4-8 8" Punch P3S Shallow 4-Ohm DVC Subwoofer a free-air subwoofer (not needing a box)?

I have the 8 speaker system. Is there enough power to drive it?

Don't listen to Rap, so major thump-thump is not required. I listen mostly to Industrial Music: Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, KMFDM, etc.

In my Avalon, I had trunk mounted sub that complimented the JBL system. However, that had very nice mid-bass to begin with.

Can't do a trunk mounted sub for cost and space reasons. I will be keeping my convertible boot back there if the weather ever gets warmer.

I am on the fence between the Fosgate mid-woofer and sub-woofer.

Thoughts?

Speakers are logarithmic, you will still have 90% of the sound with 10% of the power. Im sure the factory system will sound fine with subs but Im not sure it will drive them at a lower, boosted frequency like is expected with a subwoofer.

The car door acts as a box, the tweeter and mid sit between the door and the door panel but the 8" sits in a hole so it utilizes the space between the inner and outer door skins as a box.

[njccmd2002]

just an update, after a digital radio and amp, the woofers are great.