Forewarning to Everyone! - 6G Celicas Forums

Forewarning to Everyone!, About lowering and rims, please read.

Feb 2, 2004 - 12:43 PM
Guest_Jason_* Guest_Jason_* View Member Profile	Currently i'm riding on Dropzone Coilover's (probably 3-3.5" drop) with 18" rims and 35 series tires. When you lower your car, your wheels start to lean inwards due to the Camber from lowering your car. Well, after riding on a 3" drop for about 2-3 months now, I thought nothing of my Camber. About 2 days before switching from Lowering Springs to Coilover's, I had all 4 tires on my rims replaced with brand new Nankangs (a decent name brand). Friday night, driving home my back right tire popped, lost its seal with the rim and went completely flat. Consequently, the screwed up Camber caused irregular tire wear on all of my tires (but severly effected the back tires). My tires actually wore inside 4x faster than the outside, causing a very nicely noticeable slant in my tires. Now, these were only 2 month old Tires keep in mind. After getting my car towed to my uncle's work, NTB wanted to deal with him, so they used my Car as a dummy car to see what kind of work NTB would do. They've been wanting to deal with my Uncle for awhile now, so he put them to the test with my car. Well today all the information cameback. After lowering my car, the negative Camber threw off the alignment very bad, caused irregular tire wear making the tire slant and shrink (weird eh?). Also, the back tire did something inside the fender that needed to be fixed. All and all, for 4 new tires, corrected alignment, mount and balancing and fixed camber, i'm 670$ in the hole... I could have avoided all of this if I would have been smart and did everything from the beginning like I should have. Now, just a little note to all of you into lowering your car and playing with suspension... don't learn the hardway like I did, take my mistake to your advantage. When lowering your car, get the car taken to a shop immediatly to get your alignment redone and your camber fixed! Spend that 100$ or so (i'm not sure), before your almost 700$ in the hole later.

Replies (1 - 14)

Feb 2, 2004 - 3:48 PM
ghostdog View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Aug 29, '02 From ny to philly Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	can't say I'm suprised. if you lower your car 2 inches expect some camber trouble. in a related thought, where is the cheapest place to get a good alignment. I spent 120 at STS and that price just seems rediculous.

Feb 2, 2004 - 4:04 PM

ConeTrouble

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Jason,

First off, sorry to hear about your troubles. You are correct on many points, and many people should take heed and listen to some of what you have to say. Perhaps they can avoid the mess you are in. I hope everthing works out for you.

QUOTE (Jason @ Feb 2, 2004 - 5:43 PM)

When you lower your car, your wheels start to lean inwards due to the Camber from lowering your car.

This is very true. I am curious as to the amount of negative camber you ended up with after a 3.5 inch drop. It is important that people modding their car in this manner be prepared to compensate for the increase in negative camber.

QUOTE (Jason @ Feb 2, 2004 - 5:43 PM)

I had all 4 tires on my rims replaced with brand new Nankangs (a decent name brand).

My tires actually wore inside 4x faster than the outside, causing a very nicely noticeable slant in my tires. Now, these were only 2 month old Tires keep in mind.

Honestly, I have never heard of these tires. While I admit I am not up to speed on all the brands out there, I am not convinced this is all that great of a tire/brand. Granted you are running some whacked aligment settings, but I think some of the blame might lie on the tires, too.

QUOTE (Jason @ Feb 2, 2004 - 5:43 PM)

Well today all the information cameback. After lowering my car, the negative Camber threw off the alignment very bad, caused irregular tire wear making the tire slant and shrink (weird eh?).

I can understand some negative camber, but that is about all you should have had, unless your toe was messed up as well. The slant and shrink thing sounds like bullsh!t to me. I have heard dealers tell people some off the wall stuff, and this smells about the same to me. It also doesn't make me any more inclined to think the Nankangs are all that decent a tire.

Now, from my personal experince, I have run 2 degrees of negative camber on all four corners of my car with NO tire wear problems at all; however, I do autocross my car, and I do corner a lot harder than most people. I wore out a set of OEM Potenzas in 15K miles, but the wear was dead even all across. If your driving style suits it, I can't say negative camber alone is a bad thing. If you had some really gnarly toe settings, though, then wear could really get out of hand, but I would have thought you'd have seen that when you replaced the old tires with the Nankangs... not to mention the fact that weird toe settings will make your car handle like @ss most of the time.

Feb 2, 2004 - 4:35 PM

ConeTrouble

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QUOTE (gh0st_d0g @ Feb 2, 2004 - 8:48 PM)

in a related thought, where is the cheapest place to get a good alignment. I spent 120 at STS and that price just seems rediculous.

I paid about that at Firestone, but it included lifetime alignments. Since I change my settings a few times a year, it is paying off for me. Most places charge around $80 for a 4-wheel alignment, so say, if you hit a curb or something and skew your settings, you can take it back to them and tell them, and they will redo it for free... which pays for itself pretty quick, imo.

Feb 2, 2004 - 4:38 PM
forkee View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Nov 13, '02 From So Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%)	umm, ive been lowered 3 inches for the past year and a half and i dont have irregular wear on my tires.... i must have gone through at least 10,000 miles last year also --------------------

Feb 2, 2004 - 5:43 PM

ghostdog

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QUOTE (ConeTrouble @ Feb 2, 2004 - 4:35 PM)

QUOTE (gh0st_d0g @ Feb 2, 2004 - 8:48 PM)

in a related thought, where is the cheapest place to get a good alignment. I spent 120 at STS and that price just seems rediculous.

I paid about that at Firestone, but it included lifetime alignments. Since I change my settings a few times a year, it is paying off for me. Most places charge around $80 for a 4-wheel alignment, so say, if you hit a curb or something and skew your settings, you can take it back to them and tell them, and they will redo it for free... which pays for itself pretty quick, imo.

wow. lifetime alignments. I wish I had known about that before I went to STS. definetly getting my next alignment at Firestone.

Feb 2, 2004 - 5:52 PM
Junior View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined May 5, '03 From Toronto Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%)	I've had my car on full drop with GC's for almost 2 years now. My negative camber is so small, it can't really be seen. Someone please explain

Feb 2, 2004 - 6:11 PM
boosted_K2 View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Michigan Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	wow you dont say. -------------------- Believer, you'll leave her, in leaving them all No but I don't buy it Like anything you do, as anyone you are Cause I'm... Ten Speed, of God's Blood & Burial

Feb 2, 2004 - 7:58 PM
Kwanza26 View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	Well... I'm gonna add a bit... Negative camber isn't that bad. It's not nearly as bad as you say, or whatever tire shops say. In fact, I prefered very agressive negative camber on my old FC (front and rear)... gripped a lot better in the corners. I drove tires bald with very crappy camber and never experienced any blow-outs that severe, and I promise you, I drove my FC a lot shiittier than anyone could ever drive an FF Celica... Anyways, my guess is the tires were probably imporperly installed/inflated or something. Maybe a defect of some sort. As far as alignment goes... it's very rare to experience changes in alignment due to lowering a car. I've lowered... I don't know how many cars and have driven countless lowered vehicles and never have come across any serious alignment issues. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!" 1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be...

Feb 3, 2004 - 5:33 PM
Digndoug View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Aug 20, '03 From Annapolis, Md Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%)	no offence, but you shouldnt be droping your car or messing with your cra if you didnt know that, thats why you do research, i would love to call you a fing moron but im nice, just do reserach next time before you change somthin,... oh an if any one wrote the same thing im sorry, didnt read all others,

Feb 4, 2004 - 12:15 AM
Consynx View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%)	quick Q a camber adjustment is included in an alignment, right? or do u need to buy a different camber kit? --------------------

Feb 4, 2004 - 12:20 AM

ghostdog

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QUOTE (Consynx @ Feb 4, 2004 - 12:15 AM)

quick Q
a camber adjustment is included in an alignment, right?
or do u need to buy a different camber kit?

yeah, a proper alignment should include caster, camber, and toe adjustment

also you don't need a 'camber kit' as our cars are adjustable from factory. although if your going beyond a certain camber parameter (for auto-x for example) you need crash bolts, not sure what the details are on that though. maybe someone else can shed some light on that.

Feb 4, 2004 - 12:34 AM
macavely View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Hecho en la Republica Dominicana/Living in NJ Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	sorry to hear that just taked it as a hard lesson learned.. now you know for next time... and to everyone if your as crazy about your suspension as i am... you should get your aliment checked everytome you change springs,struts,wheels,tires,sway bars,strut bars,axles,transmission,engine, and ghost_dog PerPoys does it for 70bucks or you can do it your self if you have some string and level ground. -------------------- [ TeamNJCT

Feb 4, 2004 - 1:26 AM
SpedToe169 View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Aug 29, '02 From Dallas, Tx Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	Let me clarify what you're experiencing....Camber does not accelerate tire wear noticibly. Toe will a LOT. Your tires didn't wear becuse of the camber, they wore quickly because of the toe, probably toe out, that you got when you lowered your car. There is a thing called bump steer, basically it is a toe change caused by the movement of the suspension through its travel (i.e. the toe links aren't exactly parallel to the control arms at all times). So the to changes dynamically with the instantaneous ride height. When you lower your car, its like driving everywhere on a bump if you don't have it aligned. So to make a long story short, have your car aligned whenever you change the ride height. If you really feel like it, its not all that hard to set the toe yourself. If people want to know how, I'll post a topic, if you would rather pay to have it done I won't bother.

Feb 4, 2004 - 2:21 AM
boosted_K2 View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Michigan Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	im very interested in it. and also could you expain using crash bolts? ive heard of them being used alot when altering the MR2 suspension. thanks! -------------------- Believer, you'll leave her, in leaving them all No but I don't buy it Like anything you do, as anyone you are Cause I'm... Ten Speed, of God's Blood & Burial

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