Rise of the Phoenix, '96 Firebird Formula 6-speed Options

[Box]

Ehh let's see, so this all started on March 5th when after already searching Craigslist once and tired of it searching in vain I was oddly compelled to search again for whatever reason and that's when I saw a listing published within the last hour for a black 1996 Firebird. Opened it and it turned out to not only be the V8 with a 6-speed but also a hardtop, needless to say I messaged immediately. It wasn't but a few hours later I was already scheduled to see the car the following morning. Waking up too damn early after a sleepless night and 90 miles later I was there in front of it, I think I did a good job of withholding my giddiness since at no point did I squee like a schoolgirl or at least that I can recall anyway. To make a long story short went for a 15 minute or so test drive around the city and after doing a walk around back at their house I had to have it. Two owner car with 118K miles that was well maintained and treated, and exactly how I would've ordered one myself. I can't put into words how nice it is to have one that's a hardtop with the 6-speed, so much better than the run of the mill autotragic with T-tops. So a couple of pictures right after getting it home:


For a while really didn't have much of anything to do with it right off the bat as nothing needed messed with, which is a nice change as the only other car that's been like that was the Celica that my uncle had owned. The Miata wasn't terrible by any means, but it still needed cleaned out some and etcetera. After awhile I started to think about things I needed and wanted to do with it, first thing I really did was wash it the next weekend as it had gotten dusty from being in the garage:

Did some small stuff like a new a PCV valve and wiper blades, but my first real project was getting a stereo install kit and putting in the single DIN Sony I had as it's a notable improvement over stock:


I still need to replace the speakers and they're on my to do soon list. Next came a new shift knob, the stock one was meh and I like billiard style shift knobs so when shopping on eBay and Amazon for one I came across a Pokeball knob for only $5 more than a solid coloured one so I had to:

It ended up being hollowed from where they drilled it out for the thread insert so I ended up filling it with some lead and epoxy to bring it up to 155 grams which feels pretty nice to use. The highest priority on my list was getting newer tires as what was one there despite still having 4-5/32" left and having been stored in a garage were still 10 years old and all-seasons. First gear was useless with anything more than half throttle and three quarters in second from a roll it would kick out, needless to say it was time for a change. After shopping various tires and rims I finally came to the decision there really wasn't much out there in 17" 5x4.75" rims unless you wanted a 5-spoke. Aftermarket BMW rims are popular but I wasn't keen on the idea of the .65mm difference and doing nothing about it, I had found a couple of rims I liked but nothing I just absolutely loved. Came across a set of C4 Corvette 17x9.5" sawblades on eBay with a set of 275/40-17 BF Goodrich Sport COMP-2 tires with 8/32" left and got them for $450 shipped all the way from Michigan, being the tires alone are $150 something shipped each off Discount Tire I think I did fairly well. The rims need some refurbishing but look ok for the time being, I plan to polish the lip back out and do the centers in either anthracite or black. Old 16x8 next to the "new" 17x9.5:

Of course what should've been a matter of minutes changing the wheels turned into hours grinding on the rear hubs since for whatever reason from '93-96 F-bodies have a larger rear hub at 70.75mm versus 70.5mm in the front and GM didn't bother making them equal until 1997. Finally got it to where things fit properly:


Sooooo much better than the old set is an understatement, it's like a whole other car almost. Better grip, handling, feel, ride, and stability. Now it just hunkers down and goes straight when you get on it, no more sliding out nonsense. At the same time I also put on a cold air intake since the factory intake on LT1 cars is just abysmal unless you have the WS6 Ram Air set up, which that alone netted 20 hp at the flywheel based on published specs from GM. The general consensus is the LS1 lid or LT1 WS6 is best, but both need the ram air hood and the LS1 lid requires cutting into the core support so just no. Cold air intake is almost as good and no changing out the hood or cutting into the car needed, so I can live with that. Went with an eBay intake since really piping is piping and now that I know it fits well I'll get an AEM filter to put onto it for some $22 shipped off Amazon, so a little over $70 all together versus $240 for a K&N or $280 for a SLP then another $80 for the TrickFlow elbow since both the K&N and SLP only go to the MAF. I think I can live with what little power differences there might be given the money saved, the throttle is more responsive and the small hesitation getting onto it while already going down the road is gone. Exhaust tone is deeper too which is kind of odd, anyhow a picture of the finished product:

As far as what's up next I'm looking into doing brakes, no noises and the pedal feel is good as is the car's stopping ability but I'm all about preemptive maintenance and making cars safer. I could go crazy with C6 Z06 or second gen CTS-V brakes but I think going with '98-02 F-body brakes will be sufficient for the time being, direct fit and fairly easy to find and everyone claims they're a huge improvement so I guess I'll start keeping an eye out for the spindles and calipers. I also want to do the suspension at some point, but slowly but surely. Anyhow I guess that's about it for now.

This post has been edited by Box: Apr 28, 2016 - 2:54 PM

[Bitter]

Raybestos EHT or Stoptech Street/Sport pads are great choices. The EHT is more daily driver friendly, the Stoptech need to get hot to work their absolute best but are far from unsafe when cold, but you do need to beat them up a little on a regular basis to keep the pad film transfer layer present.

[Box]

I was thinking about the Centric high carbon alloy rotors, but hadn't really decided on which pads to get. I'll look into the ones you mentioned, best stopping ability that's street friendly is what I'm looking for I guess.

[Bitter]

Those are good ones. I got the Cryo treated ones but it looks like they may have discontinued them, they were the same high carbon premium rotors but then cryo treated for extra temper or something. So far they've been unwarpable and take abuse very well.

The stoptech pads are wonderful, the car stops super fast. BUT you have to keep the pads bedded. You must. If you do not they become very abrasive (they're already fairly abrasive) and don't stop well at all on the first stop. They're rated for 1200F max working temp and I believe it. 10 60-0 stops back to back (a couple were closer to 80-0 to be fair) and I could smell hot brakes and the paint coating burning off the rotors but there was no brake fade. When I got back after about 3 miles of cool down driving (I should have doubled that distance in hindsight) the rotors were still 400-450F and I could see heat marks on the faces where the vanes were. The brakes will take more heat and abuse than I'm willing to throw at them, I wanted to see if I could push their limit but their limit pushed me! I'd feel OK about taking them out on a track.


The EHT pads are GG friction rated, they stop well cold and hot, but have a lower fade temp and are much much much more daily driver friendly. They're tolerant of being ran cold without becoming abrasive of feeling ****ty. I like them on my daily driver very much, I would not run the stoptech pads on that sedan, the EHT pads stand up to being driven gently, the stoptech do not.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Apr 28, 2016 - 7:37 AM

[cheela]

nice! you made a thread thing.

lets keep the mods/fixes going.

and yeah black cars require a full detail. wash, wax, clay bar, the whole shebang. and tire shine will be mandatory from now on. hahaah.

[ClevelandGaint]

YAY!!!! He was serious!!! Baby steps keep up the good work

[Box]

Thanks, I'll run the EHT pads with the Centric high carbon rotors then as the only time I'll really stop aggressively on the street is in emergency situations. That and I imagine the EHT pads would work better for autocross as well. Now just to find some '98-02 spindles and calipers and I'll have myself another weekend project.

Yup the next time I have a cool and shady weekend I need to clay bar it, polish it, and then wax it. Thinking should get the Meguiar's for black paint to use on it. The paint is ok for twenty years old, scratches and nicks here and there but overall presents well enough. Maybe sometime down the road I'll get it resprayed or even do a colour change, I've always wanted bright purple metallic...

Also thanks, and yep was serious. It's comfortable, quick(can't really call a low-mid 5's to 60 fast anymore), and actually handles well for what it is even stock. That and I've wanted one for ages now, so it's a fulfillment of a childhood dream in some regards. I can wrap cheap interior plastic and maybe someone is working on a bolt-in IRS setup, then it'd be perfect.

[Bitter]

The Stoptech would be MUCH better for autocross. The EHT I do not think are as fade resistant, the stoptech have a 1200F max temp rating and I've been unable to fade them. The EHT I have not tried to fade but they don't strike me as a good racing pad.

[Box]

I guess worst case scenario I can change front pads for autocross or track days.

[Bitter]

I'd grab the Stoptech pads for the front, EHT for the rear, and see how you like the Stoptech as daily street pads. They might be OK for you, but I tend to abuse the Celica brakes a little just cause I can. I know it'll stop from 40, 50, 60, etc in a certain distance reliably and so I reliably do that. Kind of really freaks people out a 4 way stop on country roads. They don't know if I'm going to stop so they start creeping forward and staring at me. Then I do stop and have a chuckle to myself.

[Box]

I drive like an old man and try to catch the lights and if cars are in front of me at a stop sign I'll creep up to it. Why yes, yes I do drive my muscle car like an economy car. What's sad is I get out of it about what I did with the Miata, but using 93 instead of 87. That's ok I went back to RockAuto to check some things and they're out of the Centric high carbon for the front, which I was going to check Amazon and eBay as well for the best prices on everything like I usually do.

[Box]

Decal arrived and put it on before the clouds opened up, of course it took some time since I'm super OCD and had to get it perfectly centered.


For some reason it's really hard to capture the colour, but I went out into the rain just for you guys.


This post has been edited by Box: May 2, 2016 - 7:09 PM

[Bitter]

Screamin chicken, looks good!


Order your brakes already.

[Box]

Thanks, I like that someone actually offered it in purple so it's a nice semi-custom touch.

I still need to find '98-02 front spindles and calipers being parted out or from junkyard, that or might be better off finding spindles wherever then buying rebuilt calipers.

[njccmd2002]

When will it be for sale?

[Box]

If you want it so badly go find your own. Good luck finding one with the hardtop and 6-speed though, it took me forever.

[ClevelandGaint]

If you want it so badly go find your own. Good luck finding one with the hardtop and 6-speed though, it took me forever.

Family discount!! Tree fiddy!

[njccmd2002]

Mmh. With a trailer and a comealong any car can dissapear. Let me see if pictures are geotagged

[Box]

Nooooo, why you want to make me sad? I thought you hated American cars anyway? I can't blame you though short of the Firebird, the Corvette, the Ford GT, and the Viper there really aren't any other American cars made in the last 35 or so years I'd want either.

Today I conditioned my dash again as it looked dry on the passenger side for some reason. I need to get around to looking up how to remove it in one piece so I can fiberglass the backside for reinforcement and then cover it in either marine vinyl, alcantara, or carbon fiber. Only thing with marine vinyl or especially carbon fiber is it'd be shiny, then again alcantara would be harder to clean. That or just leave it be and kill myself being a contortionist constantly conditioning it.

[Box]

Stopped and parked at a Wal-Mart to check my phone and make a call and right before I was ready to leave saw a black fourth gen leaving, couldn't tell if it was LS1 or LT1 year range as I just caught sight of the back of it as it made the turn to the stop sign. I halfway attempted to catch them but I wasn't about to speed through a parking lot, run a stop sign, and then speed through the shopping center's road to do it. I was hoping they'd have stopped somewhere before I made my turn back onto the highway but I guess they went the other way, oh well.

Now to more thread relevant occurings, I measured the dash cap and it alone is shy of 57" long and 19" wide so might as well say 58"x20" to play it safe and leave enough to wrap around the edges. After searching alcantara and real carbon fiber would just be too expensive given how large of an uncut piece I would need, and something like marine vinyl would be so hard to match to the face of the dash as it's soft vinyl on the Firebirds unlike the Camaros that were all plastic. I found some microsuede material with 1/8" foam backing meant for headliners but I'd imagine it'd be hard to make it look nice around the defrost vent, that and it'd be too poofy looking. Aside from being unable to vacuum the edge of dash cap I noticed even the automotive grade UV treated microsuedes were only rated for 300 hours of sun exposure. So I guess that leaves doing a vinyl wrap, which I guess is fine since it'd be the cheapest and easiest option. I tried looking for some grey/charcoal carbon fiber wraps but none really looked convincing enough, I could do plain black carbon fiber but at that point I feel I'd need to do more pieces to tie it all in. I was just wanting to avoid the whole fake carbon fiber thing, but it beats leaving the dash exposed to turn into Humpty Dumpty since it's not garaged.

Scratch that, amazing what a single letter can change what's shown on eBay's search engine... http://www.ebay.com/itm/XPO-Gunmetal-Dark-...Few&vxp=mtr

This post has been edited by Box: May 4, 2016 - 4:03 PM

[ClevelandGaint]

Any updates?!!!

[njccmd2002]

Its for sale on craigslist

[ClevelandGaint]

Its for sale on craigslist

It was only a matter of time!!! Well box when you want it to go to a different home let me know, ill baby sit it, just make sure it has new rear tires

[Box]

*sigh* baka

The vinyl arrived today, looks even better in person than it did in pictures so that's nice. Provided the weather is decent will do that this weekend, the fun part is getting it out in one piece.

[ClevelandGaint]

Baby steps!!!

[Box]

I had it out in one piece then as we were deciding how to navigate it out it cracked under its own weight, so now I'm looking at ways to put it back together. Which at least I was planning on covering it in vinyl anyway I guess... Once it's finally finished I'll get some pictures.

Think next I'll be doing brakes and exhaust, surely can find a '98-02 Camaro or Firebird at Pull-A-Part with its front spindles and calipers.

[Box]

So here's one positive update, wrapped the stereo and A/C trim piece:


Will post a picture of the dash in the "Today I..." thread since driving it today I couldn't see because of the reflection of the dash and it'll be removed ASAP. What's sad is I used the "dry carbon" that is kind of matte-satin, I'd hate to see what gloss would do... Outside of that will be doing brakes after I can find my freaking calipers to measure my rotors, if they're still good I'll just get a set of good brake pads to hold me until I feel like going and getting '98-02 front spindles and calipers from Pull-A-Part and then refurbishing them.

[ClevelandGaint]

We the people, DEMAND UPDATES!

[Box]

Not really much at the moment, and I'm sure as hell not putting up pictures of the dash pad unless I can get it somewhat respectable looking. I am about to order some brake pads, that and I'm thinking about going ahead and doing spark plugs and wires just to get it over with already. I found that the JEGS 8mm wires are supposed to be a good performance oriented option that'll still fit through the wire guides, but I can't decide if I want to go with platinum or iridium plugs. Really any performance difference is moot probably, but the cost and longevity are a consideration. In theory the the iridium should last twice as long, but they're about 3 times as expensive too.

Outside of maintenance stuff I'll probably redo the exhaust from the axle back next, stock after going over the axle on the passenger side it curves towards the driver side into a transverse cross flow chamber muffler then goes out to the tips with the passenger side making a near 180 turn out of the muffler. My plan is to put in a single in/dual out straight through 5x8 oval muffler tucked up into the car over the axle and make it as straight a path to the tips as possible from there. Sure true duals would be better but it'd mean expensive headers and universal cats to do it right on top of more expense in materials and labour, but I don't plan on doing anything to the motor outside of maybe a LT4 cam swap so straightening out the back end of the exhaust will be a good enough improvement.

[cheela]

sounds like what alot of us say...

"i'm just gonna do intake and exhaust."

[Box]

Well I do plan on doing the suspension and brakes as well in the future, but as far as the drivetrain goes intake, exhaust, and cam should be plenty enough. These days it probably makes more sense to go to something like the LS3 versus building either the LT1 or LS1 since it makes 426 hp out of the box, and then all the mods you can add from there.

[Bitter]

There can be too much power.

[Box]

There can be too much power.

But yeah the 300 some odd crank horsepower is enough for me at this point, and to be honest I've yet to use all that's there and that's with a few interstate pulls and passing idiots on the highway. Having passing power is the best thing ever by the way, that and never having to turn off the A/C.

[Box]

Not really a huge update by any means, but changed the differential oil, transmission fluid, and the engine oil and filter. The transmission fluid was fairly spent as was the differential oil, engine oil had been due for a few hundred miles but really didn't want to do it in the yard if possible as it still looked fine. Everything was fairly uneventful really, gave the underside of the car a once over since it was up on the lift and it all looks good. I don't think I'll have the room to do what I was wanting with the exhaust though so it's back to the drawing board on that. The spark plugs look to have been replaced somewhat recently(ACDelco plugs, meh) but it looks like the original wires, so wires and plugs are up soon. Put in new fluids, oils, filter, etc... and dropped it back down. The transmission feels notably better, not that it was really bad before but now everything is really nice and smooth. Still needs a short throw to be honest, but that's further down on the priority list.

[Bitter]

When the detailing bug bites you again, check out Carpro Essence. It's a filler/glaze kind of product that sets up to make a really hard layer bonded to the paint that fills in halograms and light scratches to make the car super glossy without taking down lots of paint thickness. I'm trying it out this weekend/week on my Celica as I give it the yearly detail. I don't think I'm going as hog wild as I did last year but you know...I always say that.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/produc...g-ocdetail.html

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jun 26, 2016 - 10:13 AM

[Box]

Looks really nifty, the results on the black cars are pretty impressive. I still need to do a proper strip down and wax job, though it's just been too damn hot but at least the spray wax I did has been holding up well. Which for twenty year old paint it still looks fairly good, but there are a few trouble spots here and there but waxing blends them back in only to show up again over time. So this stuff sounds perfect for what I'm needing.

[Bitter]

Yep, I'm hoping it's some magic elixir for me as well, I'm in the process of claying all the horizontal surfaces on the Celica today and then I'm going to buff the whole thing down with that stuff and let it haze up and set for a day or two in the garage then do my usual M21 with 3M carnuba teflon topper. No M7 rub down this year, it's still got a nice deep black to the paint so I don't feel the need for that. Even my boss, who is usually pretty sparing when it comes to complimenting cars said he could see the depth in the black on it. I love that M7 glaze! It really is some of the best stuff around for single stage paints, and on Toyota red the results are mind bendingly amazing, it makes it look like luscious lipstick red lips you just wanna kiss.

[Box]

I'm a fan of Meguiar's products as well, really the best off the shelf brand in my opinion. If Carpro Essence works really well it'd save a lot of time and physical stress since could use it after clay barring then go straight to sealant and wax.

I was so exhausted last night since I also helped my brother change out the open differential in his Genesis Coupe to a track model LSD, not fun by the way in case you're wondering, I forgot to mention it was also the first time driving at night since getting the car and I couldn't see for ****. We always take his car since it has HID lighting and he doesn't have night blindness, thankfully was following him but I could maybe see 25 feet in front of me if that. So I've been looking into that again today and found AUTOPAL Euro H4 housings with bulbs for $15 each plus $9 shipping. If I had money to blow I'd look into making some kind of bi-xenon projector setup, but I don't so the Euro H4 should be a notable improvement for not much more that what it'd cost to get new sealed beams.

[Bitter]

If those are the housings I'm thinking of then they're too shallow for 'plug n play' threaded shaft projectors and you've got space constraints bad cause of the pop ups. If they're the metal and glass H4 housings then just run some higher wattage H4 bulbs on a wiring harness, it's going to be a massive improvement. Maybe the Osram Rally bulbs?

[Box]

Here they are: http://www.ebay.com/itm/361426900811?_trks...K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I was just going to use them as is with some Philips X-treme Vision bulbs, I thought about the Osram Rallye bulbs but all the ones I've found are overseas(I know that's their actual market, but still) and take forever to arrive and would have to redo the wiring like you mentioned.

This post has been edited by Box: Jun 27, 2016 - 2:22 AM

[Bitter]

The XV's are great if you like replacing bulbs every 3 months.

http://store.candlepower.com/
http://store.candlepower.com/64205.html

They say it'll play with stock wiring, but due to voltage drops you won't get the absolute most lumens with stock wiring, even with stock bulbs. It's worth it to run the harness it really is.

[Box]

Ye the other option being the Osram Night Breaker as far as not changing anything on the car, but I figured the Philips XV would be better since they only have the blue tint crap as a ring around the top of the bulb. Bulb life isn't that big of a deal since I try to limit my night time driving as much as possible, but when it starts getting dark at like 5:00 during the winter I don't have much choice.

I guess I could make a new harness, but I'll want to go all out and use like 10 AWG so if I ever feel like being a bastard I can use 130/100W bulbs. This is where having an ostentatious LS1 Firebird would come in handy as I could keep my low beams fairly civilized but go all out on the high beams, oh well the price of looking and sounding better has bit me in the ass already.

[Bitter]

the 100W bulbs aren't going to last very long either, they burn so hot that the filament gets very fragile. Make a harness even if you're using stock wattage stuff, it makes a big big difference. Big difference.

[Box]

I guess I'll spend some time on Amazon and eBay finding some H4 plugs, relays, inline fuses, and some wiring. I need to go out and look at the car to see what's there and if there might be any constraints on wire AWG due to clearances with the popup assembly. Depending on differences in wire pricing will somewhat dictate what I use since I really wouldn't use 130/100W bulbs since I don't want to be a jerk. Yay more stuff to do.

[Bitter]

You don't need thick ass cable, even just bumping up to double the thickness of OEM makes a massive difference and is overkill. I think mine was using 12ga wire maybe 14ga, vs the stock 16 or 18ga stuff.

[Box]

I was thinking 12-14 AWG after looking at thickness for given amperage and wire length charts.

[Box]

Just ordered the E-code lamps and some heavy duty H4 connectors, so that'll be a fun project once all that arrives. I need to look through my stash of wiring tonight to see what all I have before ordering wiring that I may already have. After doing some research over on LS1Tech the E-code conversion is the next best thing to a bi-xenon conversion, but is marginally easier and cheaper. So that's hope inspiring, it'll be nice to be able to drive at night and see. The Celica spoiled me with its headlight optics.

[Bitter]

More than marginally easier. WAY easier. Like nearly plug n play, if you can bake a cookie from a tub you can do the swap.

[Box]

Someone had been making a "plug and play" bi-xenon kit, but it was $700 and I'm not sure if they're even making them anymore. I guess compared to putting one together it'll be considerably easier. Also I found something I want but will probably never be able to find:


I'd hate to know how rare, Euro taillights. The other day after a really bad thunderstorm I noticed some moisture in the driver side taillight. I thought about finding some '93-97 base model taillights and then covering them in vinyl tint so then it'd just be solid black. Other option is baking mine open, or however you go about separating them, and try to save them. Then could do the vinyl tint leaving the reflector exposed. Really that'll be my only option probably for them to look ok since the black grid section looks wonky after moisture got in...

[Bitter]

If the 98-02 tails didn't have the stupid honey comb on them they'd be nice. Can you remove that?

[Box]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that hates honeycombs, over on LS1Tech they're God's gift to automotive lighting... Apparently the '93-97 Formula/Trans Am lights are notorious for delaminating, so even if I found a nice set it'd just be a matter of time unless I could somehow reseal them and never let it become an issue. There's no way to remove the grid or honeycomb on the lights, but the '93-97 base lights would be sort of similar to having honeycombs removed and look like so:

Then they can be modified to look like such:

Even more reminiscent to the late second gen than the grid lights are.

[Bitter]

Not too bad, throw in some really bright LED plug n play bulbs and you're good to go I think.

[Box]

Yep, just have to find a set. My brother knows a guy at LKQ and had sent an email about getting a set, but haven't heard back yet. I do really like how they look on that blue T/A, would be even better on a black car I think.

[cheela]

that last pic doesn't look too bad.

[Box]

It's funny how big a difference some time and paint can make. I pulled the driver side tail light just now and it looks like whatever they used to seal the lense to the housing has dried up. I took some tint I had laying around and it kind of masks they "greying" of the grid where water got to it, so if I could stop these from leaking and holding condensation I'll be ok for the time being. Though I still want the base model lights to do the above mod or just black out, since I'd use vinyl tint I could always pull it off and do the mod once I'm tired of them being blacked out.

Oh and the way the lights are done there's a piece of plastic that covers the entire top of the seal and mating surface, otherwise some silicone would take care of it quickly and easily. Trying to find info now but the general consensus seems to be not to try opening them.

This post has been edited by Box: Jun 29, 2016 - 5:06 PM

[ClevelandGaint]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that hates honeycombs, over on LS1Tech they're God's gift to automotive lighting... Apparently the '93-97 Formula/Trans Am lights are notorious for delaminating, so even if I found a nice set it'd just be a matter of time unless I could somehow reseal them and never let it become an issue. There's no way to remove the grid or honeycomb on the lights, but the '93-97 base lights would be sort of similar to having honeycombs removed and look like so:

Then they can be modified to look like such:

Even more reminiscent to the late second gen than the grid lights are.

The bottom one looks awesome!!!!

[cheela]

you're gonna need that high rise spoiler.

[Box]

So after extensive research the solution to my problem was to drill holes in the bottom of each bulb housing, with much chagrin that's what was done. I think for the time being I'll throw some vinyl tint on them to hide the grid delaminating and wait for LKQ to find me a set of base lights to mod.

I hate the high rise spoiler though. You have no idea how happy having the Formula with a hardtop and the low rise spoiler has made me, that and the 6-speed but that's a given. The only thing I like about the Trans Am more is the rear bumper, depending on how hard it is to change them out I might have to look out for a nice black rear bumper to put on.

[VavAlephVav]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that hates honeycombs, over on LS1Tech they're God's gift to automotive lighting... Apparently the '93-97 Formula/Trans Am lights are notorious for delaminating, so even if I found a nice set it'd just be a matter of time unless I could somehow reseal them and never let it become an issue. There's no way to remove the grid or honeycomb on the lights, but the '93-97 base lights would be sort of similar to having honeycombs removed and look like so:

Then they can be modified to look like such:

Even more reminiscent to the late second gen than the grid lights are.

The bottom one looks awesome!!!!

F-yeah,
Schwiiing!

[Box]

My brother really likes them too. I want a set of lights to mod so bad it's not even funny, LKQ guy needs to hurry it up.

This post has been edited by Box: Jun 30, 2016 - 4:39 PM

[njccmd2002]

You need a spoiler on your spoiler

[Box]

No, I love my low rise spoiler. What would look good though is a high rise with the factory spoiler removed and then add a lip spoiler like so:

Then add the tail lights on the previous page and you'd have a pretty good homage to the second gen.

[Box]

I was hoping my headlamps and all would arrive today, but it'll be sometime next week for them to arrive. I also finally found someone with good feedback that sells nice looking vinyl tint that isn't pitch black and/or matte, so ordered that and it should be here next week too. So tune in next week for more minor mods and what not.

[Bitter]

Well how do the new headlamps look?

[Box]

Was finishing uploading to PhotoBucket, I meant to take pictures where I adjust my lights but I forgot my phone as it was charging. Took some meh photos after getting back, vehicles are in the way but I tried to get some pictures to give an idea. I'll have to go back some other night as the light cutoff is pretty impressive for a sealed beam replacement, that and get some "down the road" pictures on the adjacent road as it's long and flat and dead ends on that side so it'd be safe to do so. Either way HUGE improvement, even with the included plain AutoPal 60/55W bulbs. First picture is low beam, second is high beam, and last is high beam right in front of it. In the first two pictures I was standing next to the passenger side fender, you can see in the high beam picture the Durango pretty much is blocking off the driver lamp while the Genesis is blocking the passenger side. Oh well.




Now I can actually see where I'm going at night, until blinded by some jerk anyway. I'm actually really pleased with them, with some Rallye bulbs I don't think I'd really feel compelled to do a HID conversion unless I could do it dirt cheap with parts sourced from Pull-A-Part.

[Bitter]

Still going to run a relay harness I hope? Throwing away almost free lumens if you don't! But yea, that looks like a pretty substantial improvement over the original sealed beam units, the high beams look great with lots of throw. Some good wide fog lights for shoulder illumination at lower speeds and you're all set. Ford Fusion fog lights are pretty bright and pretty wide and pretty cheap.
http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-st-appe...usion-projectio

[Box]

I took the pins out of the male end of the H4 connector so I could just plug them into the factory harness as needed to make life as easy as possible and to see if the headlamps were as good as I hoped. The factory headlight wiring snakes all throughout the core support, so I'll have to take a better look at my routing options for when I make a harness. I wonder if the Fusion fog lights are small enough to fit into my factory fog light location. Also the link you put in seems to be broken.

Never mind, was able to find the post searching Google. I'll have to try and find exact dimensions, but it looks like it'll be close if they'll fit at all.

This post has been edited by Box: Jul 6, 2016 - 4:04 PM

[Box]

After going out and measuring I have an ellipse about 6" lengthwise and 2" tall, and that's being somewhat generous since I couldn't get the measuring tape exactly into the bumper.

[Box]

Might as well use the space since it double posted. Tint should be here by this weekend, hopefully it's dark enough to hide the delamination but light enough to not really impede visibility. I went with a light black since all of the dark blacks just looked way too dark. Also looking around on The Retrofit Source and came across some LED daytime running lights that'd be a near perfect fit, but obviously daytime running lights and fog lights are two different things for a reason. So I'm not sure how well it'd work, but from the picture they might:
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/led-light...ml#.V38JLNIrK1s

The other thing is the way the bumper is shaped it would channel the light some as well. I hate when the only time you'll know how well something will work is to test it in person...

This post has been edited by Box: Jul 7, 2016 - 9:04 PM

[Box]

So drove at night again earlier since brother's car is out of commission thanks to Firestone, and honestly it's better than any other vehicle with factory dual filament housings I've been in at night. On low beam I can see about 150 feet in front of me, at least 300 feet on high beam. Good road and side of the road coverage, definitely the best $40 or so spent in some time. I think I'll wait until I find some fog lights before doing all the harness work since any stuff that has to be removed to to do either harness applies to both. The only place I need improvement is directly in front of me and to the side, pulling onto roads and into driveways isn't as visible as I'd like but that's where the fog lights come in.

By the way I was thinking about it earlier, did you ever get a chance to use the CarPro Essence?

[Bitter]

I did, it does make the car look super rich glossy even on my beat to hell and back paint. Get it. Use it. You'll love it.


For fog lights, do you have a 9 inch wide by 1 inch high opening anywhere?

[Box]

I'll have to get some then once it cools down enough to get out and and do it all.

The only openings on the front are where the stock fog lights would be, the 6"x2" or so ellipse.

[Bitter]

Well that stinks. Maybe try some fogs from a Lexus ES300 or 7G Celica, they're a nice projector and are fairly cheap to get new aftermarket. Only thing would be fitting them, but the do project in a wide band instead of a useless blob like anything from the auto parts stores.

[Box]

Yep, with the radiator drawing air from the bottom they blocked off the front completely. Suppose I'll look into finding some ES300 or 7GC ones then. Also the tint arrived earlier, so hopefully the weather cooperates and can get that done. Which it seems a little lighter than it did in the listing which is ok, looks to be equivalent to 50% window tint or so.

[Bitter]

Too bad, those Accord LED fogs would have been perfect for you, nice and super wide, bright with low power draw. Might need to cut some holes!

[Box]

Would these be the lights in question: https://www.theretrofitsource.com/complete-...ml#.V4KLO9IrK1s

The opening gets bigger as it approaches the face of the bumper, so if they're those they might work. Mounting them would probably be a pain though.

[Bitter]

No, sorry I should have been more clear, I was talking about the 2016 OEM LED fogs.

Though I wonder if their universal fogs would fit?

[Box]

Ah ok thanks. After looking at the car more I guess technically I wouldn't have to use the factory fog light location, the way the openings are done there're probably a few ways of going about it. I found a picture of a white one on Google that shows the openings pretty well:

So something like the '16 Accord fog light could be used, it really just boils down to making it look ok.

[Bitter]

Ah yes, the 90's when all cars looked like suppositories.


There is just no where good to put anything, if you recess the lights too much you end up clipping the output with the body and bumper.

[Box]

Meh, better than when all cars looked like blocks with wheels.

Yeah pretty much just screwed when it comes to fog lights unless a small projector style like you mentioned earlier. Clearly have just bought the wrong vehicle for driving with at night, then again in fairness with exception of the SC300 and 300ZX the rest of the cars I was considering were crappy dual filament housings or sealed beams also. Well almost finished the driver side tail light before it started downpouring, 15% chance of rain my ass... That's ok after unrolling the tint and in the sunlight it's more like 70%, seems to hide the delamination well enough without effecting the light output any. Will have to take comparison and final result pictures.

[Bitter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hVMFjDAA8

[Box]

Good ole Steve Martin.

So after looking through everything on Amazon rated 4+ stars I came across these: https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-Light-Lights...=led+fog+lights

Pretty much the perfect size, and from some of the pictures in reviews they seem fairly decent. The only other thing I'd know to do is find nearly non existent O.E. fog lights that probably suck or swap to the Trans Am front bumper since it has giant fog lights and would offer more flexibility in being able to mount either a good projector or LED fog light.

[Bitter]

Those are not suitable to be used as fog lights, but they make AWESOME reverse lights! They have no pattern, just a blob of light that would glare other drivers as if your high beams were on. Buy them though, and wire them in as reverse lights and you'll be able to see where you're going at night finally....in reverse. See if you can find the flood pattern for reverse though.

I installed ONE on a customers GMC Envoy because her OE reverse lights filled with water and the sockets rotted, she LOVES it and her husband loves it too. She wants one on her new car also :lol: She says it lights up down the driveway the whole width...and across the street and up their whole driveway too. :rofl:

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jul 10, 2016 - 10:55 PM

[Box]

Darn you misleading Amazon item titles, oh well guess it's back to the drawing board. From looking at pictures the 7th gen Celica fog lights seem too big as well. Why must it be so hard to find a 2" or smaller fog light that's worth a damn.

[Box]

So here's some side by side comparison pictures, the driver side is tinted and passenger side is yet to be done. Just dark enough to hide the delamination but not dark enough to really effect the light output, I am pleased.

[Box]

Since it ended up raining again, at least this time thankfully right before I was going to start on the passenger side, I decided to get a night time comparison as well. Really no difference at all at night, so that's good.

[cheela]

Looks much better.
I need to do this to my matrix. I really don't like the altezza light style that the 05-08 models got. and since the car is gray/black already, tinted tails should blend right in.

[Box]

The tint itself really isn't that dark, but the way the tail lights are made the exterior lense is clear so even light tint makes them look a lot darker than if the exterior lense was red. I held the tint up to the tail lights on my brother's Genesis and there was barely a difference as the lense is bright red. Since your Matrix has the altezza light tails you can get away with a lighter tinting so that your light output really isn't effected, but it'll look a lot better against the dark paint. Hopefully the weather cooperates this afternoon as the mismatched tails makes me cringe.

[cheela]

nice! good to know. yeah anything is better than bright chromy looking tails on a dark colored car. lol

and yeah u should really do that other side asap. haha.

[Box]

Yup, or maybe you could find '03-04? lights if you liked them but I think tinted altezza style might look better.

So at least this time it started raining after I was finished:

[Box]

I'm thinking about more or less blacking out the outside perimeter of the third brake light leaving the reflector portion that lights up untouched, I think it'd look better that way.

[cheela]

yeah i was after 03-04 tails but I've seen too many of them turn pink for some reason. if i wanted that i'd rather just tape off mine and paint it red but tint is what im after.

as for the 3rd brake light. just put a vinyl overlay on it. you can even have it say something like "race me" while u drive like an old grandpa LOL that would get annoying quick i'm sure.

[Box]

That'd be great, even driving like an old man I'd crush some Hondas though.

[Bitter]

Needs some stupid bright LED bulbs anyway.

[Box]

Yep it's on my never ending and never shrinking list of things to do. I've noticed when shopping for headlight and foglight stuff that the price on LED tower bulbs has come down significantly in the last year or so. Just a matter of finding what works optimally in my housings.

[Bitter]

Try the JDMAstar EX-144 bulbs, they're wicked bright in most housings. I actually wired a resistor on my amber ones to make them dimmer on the low brightness so there's more contrast between low and high. 150 ohm 1/2 watt was just right!

[Box]

Holy moly, I need something like that for reverse bulbs.

[Bitter]

Reverse lights are tricky, most housings have **** optics.

[Box]

Yeah, these are straight up terrible and are purely for just letting others know you're backing up. I guess here would be the one upside to honeycombs, but I'd have to tint the rest of the light dark enough to hide the honeycomb pattern. I bet you could even fit in a projector housing of some sort where the reverse housing is, then would definitely be able to see backing up.

[1994Celica]

I'm really loving your F body.... Taillights look good