Remanufactured Head (ebay), Need you all experts advise Options

[msk59]

In the near future, I plan on redoing the valves etc on the head and came across some ebay sites that sells remanufactured heads. all work done with cams etc for under $300. Engine is 7A-FE and my car is 1996 Celica ST (AT-200) with manual transmission.

What is your experience with these heads and what advise you can give me that can help me decide.

Thank You
MSK

This post has been edited by msk59: Jun 13, 2014 - 8:09 AM

[msk59]

Yes that is my worry too. The tricks of the trade and the 'short cuts' they used is the key. I will pull the head myself and will have a knowledgeable buddy with me who will help me. I also want to do the piston re-ring. That would be a challange laying on the ground and unbolting it from underneath.

The other option would be to pull the engine out of the car along with transmission and replace the clutch as well. It definetly involves additional work but the benefits are many as well.

[Langing]

Yes that is my worry too. The tricks of the trade and the 'short cuts' they used is the key. I will pull the head myself and will have a knowledgeable buddy with me who will help me. I also want to do the piston re-ring. That would be a challange laying on the ground and unbolting it from underneath.

The other option would be to pull the engine out of the car along with transmission and replace the clutch as well. It definetly involves additional work but the benefits are many as well.

Please excuse my long-winded reply. You don't have to read it, but I needed to sort things out for myself after reading all the comments in this thread. I AM very interested in your question because I am facing it myself.

This thread began by asking "What is your experience with these heads and what advise you can give me that can help me decide." Two links were provided to similar sources to show examples of places that sell rebuilt heads at a price-point of approximately $300.

Those sources claim to sell heads for all vehicle types, trying to keep an inventory where anyone could get immediate satisfaction when they want any particular head: engine heads in which they claim they have replaced all worn parts; heads which have been resurfaced; heads which have worn valves replaced and the valve seats all ground properly; heads which are cleaned up and tested for cracks; heads which are guaranteed for 12 months. They can sell their rebuilt heads for less than $300 because they rebuild so many thousands of heads each year from all kinds of motors (Volume) and you have to send your current head back to them when you install theirs as part of the deal (Recycling), and, they pay the return shipping! Further, they say they do not care what condition your head is in when it gets back to them, so long as all of its parts are shipped to them.

I don't know enough about overhauling an engine to even begin to offer wise counsel on this matter, however, ISTM that this approach ought to actually be better than equivalent to taking your own head down to a machine shop to get the same work done on it, or DIY. In both of these approaches a big problem is consistency, meaning quality, another is going to be cost. Whereas these big rebuilders are doing it all day long every day they are in business, and must have every resource and all the information they could ever need at their fingertips, and because of volume can buy replacement parts (much cheaper) in quantity, a local machine shop or DIY (even with a 'good buddy who really knows his stuff") are one-offers. They may have done it before, but it isn't something they do every day. Therefore you really do not know what the level of quality you are going to get. Also, you are purchasing parts in small numbers and have to pay shipping on each part.

Of course, in the DIY case, if you are the least like me, when you are finally finished you know the job is done well. However, the parts of the job that require expensive machines and thus required you to farm them out, that sounds like the weakest link since you have no control over their quality. Its like the fellow who posted that he took his head back to the dealer more than once but they never resurfaced it, so it failed early. I don't trust dealer technicians, or most anybody to whom I might take my car to have something done on it because I have seen numerous instances of things they took short cuts in doing or not doing, and so on.

Also, of course, these rebuilders may have the same kinds of problems in their processes, or may use the cheapest possible replacement parts, or any of a number of untrustworthy scenarios one could come up with. However, you have an economic system helping you make sure you get a quality product from people like this because their reputation is all they have, and if someone posts negative remarks about their head work, they would soon enough feel the pain in their profits.

All that being said, using one of the rebuilders is much like removing your head, having it overhauled by a local machine shop or by you and an expert buddy, and then replacing the rebuilt head back onto the engine. That has to mean "downtime" for your vehicle, and it it were I doing the work with whatever help I could find, that "downtime" would be considerable. For you it might be rather short. But there would be some amount of downtime. It's not the same if you purchase a rebuilt head for $300 and simply change it out, like you would a starter motor, and then you just pack up and send your old head back to them, using part of the $300. That's the case of minimal work, minimal cost!

It seems a decision has been made to savor the experience of DIY, probably for the depth of knowledge and sheer joy doing so would bring, rather than buying a rebuilt head, but was that decision based on any related experiences with remanufactured heads? I'm just asking. That decision to DIY isn't BAD because it wasn't based on reliable information, but being clear eyed about decisions you make is important because you are deciding on the expenditure of a lot of time and energy.

I cannot help but feel that this is a 'no-brainer' of a decision if ONLY concerned about cost, quality, and time. And despite my own basic instinct to want to DIM, probably for the same reasons as you have, let me make a last effort to test your resolve by pasting what one of those rebuilders said in their advert (FYI: I have no financial interest in any of these companies):


TOYOTA CELICA 7AFE

PHOTO OF 7AFE HEAD


This listing is for a rebuilt Toyota Celica 7AFE cylinder head for the years 1993-1997. For other models see our store listings. This head is completely rebuilt. It has been pressure checked for cracks and resurfaced. Guides and seats have been replaced as needed. New VITON valve stem seals have been installed. All heads are given a three angle valve job. All valves have been vacuum checked to ensure proper sealing.

A LIKE CORE HEAD IS REQUIRED IN EXCHANGE.

ABOUT US

Since 1968, Cylinder Heads International has been selling quality rebuilt cylinder heads. By serving our customers better than our competitors, CHI has grown into one of the largest cylinder head rebuilders in the nation. Our heads are installed by shops nationwide and are the choice of many engine rebuilders. Our comprehensive inventory includes heads for domestic or import models and carry a 12-month unlimited mileage guarantee.

WE MAKE IT SIMPLE

We make it easy for you. Your head will arrive in our special foam lined box. Once your new head is installed all you have to do is put your old one in the box and tape it up, then apply the included prepaid UPS sticker to the box. You may then give the box to any UPS driver you may see, or take the box to any UPS pickup point, there will be no charge to you to complete the transaction and return your old head to us.

YOUR OLD HEAD

We will accept your old cylinder head no matter what is wrong with it as long as it includes all the parts that our head came with. You will never be charged extra because your old head is damaged. Cracked head? OK! Bent valves? OK! Head taken apart? OK! (as long as you put all of the parts in the box). We have no up-front core charge. Our comprehensive inventory includes heads for domestic or import models and a 12-month unlimited mileage guarantee.

HEADSONLY, also known as Cylinder Heads International has thousands of rebuilt cylinder heads in stock. We strive to have the heads people need when they need them. Due to the fact that we sell heads Nationwide to professional installers, garages, dealerships and engine rebuilders, occasionally we may be temporarily out of stock on certain hard to find or high demand items. This is rare. In this case we will offer to rebuild your head, or a full refund, your choice.