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> What is the best way to protect bare iron metal from rust?
post Jun 14, 2014 - 10:08 PM
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Langing

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I picked off a steering knuckle from a junkyard Celica, removed the ball joint and wheel bearing, and cleaned it with a wire wheel to the point where it seems rust and yuck free. Now it is almost all bare metal and I have two questions:

1) What is the best/easiest way to remove the remaining rust? (I don't have a sand blaster.)

2) What is a good/long-lasting way to protect the bare metal from rusting again?

To show what I am talking about I include a photo of the newly cleaned SN next to my Celica's SN (the one with with bent ears). The junkyard SN is the lighter of the two, the golden rust colored one; it came from a red 1995 Celica and is going on a white 1994 Celica: rolleyes.gif



Thanks to anyone who takes time to help me by discussing these questions.
 
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post Jun 17, 2014 - 6:19 PM
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njccmd2002



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if lighting strikes, it wont strike the hub, it will strike the metal of the car, or ground, in which case your tires are rubber.

when i fitted my hubs, you have to remember that the struts are painted, too. in any case, the more exposed metal you have the rust potential. my strut bolts to hub were so affected with rust, it was crazy, any ways i always use



it will guarantee me that i wont fight with rust again


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post Jun 18, 2014 - 8:39 AM
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Langing

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QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 17, 2014 - 7:19 PM) *
if lighting strikes, it wont strike the hub, it will strike the metal of the car, or ground, in which case your tires are rubber.

when i fitted my hubs, you have to remember that the struts are painted, too. in any case, the more exposed metal you have the rust potential. my strut bolts to hub were so affected with rust, it was crazy, any ways i always use



it will guarantee me that i wont fight with rust again


Your intention is to prevent accumulation of rust and provide ease of nut removal post tightening? PD Blaster and broken bolt removal is then frequently unnecessary? I'm beginning to trust the information you provide, so am planning on purchasing this product.

I've tried to find information about the product (looks to me like it's made by Permatex) and found two Anti-Seize products from Permatex, a regular lube anti-seize and your NICKEL anti-seize. The Nickel product says it is for use when elimination of copper is important. They both seem to be highly recommended for exhaust applications where temperature is very high and road-salt is likely. Why did you settle on the Nickle version?

My reading took me to Wikipedia where I found a new concept for me (that makes perfect sense) called "fretting," which happens at the mating surfaces of metals under load. And a new word "asperities" which are all of the 'high spots" are all the metal that actually touches when two metal parts are joined together, and they initially bear the load. Just the slightest movement causes them to quickly wear down and release particles of grit that can do bad things to a joint, forming krud that resembles rust but can eventually cause metal fatigue. It's interesting if you didn't already know. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretting.

BTW: As for lightening, there are some myths that abound. One is that it doesn't ever strike twice in the same place. Photos of the Empire State building in thunderstorms frequently show bolts of lightening striking its very top. That's why there is a heavy metal column running uninterrupted from the top down to way deep into the ground in that building, to carry those electric surges without harming the building's inhabitants.

It is true that you are safer in your car than just standing on the same spot during a thunderstorm. But the actual reason isn't commonly understood. You are protected by what is known as the Faraday Cage (a metallic construction named for Michael Faraday), a metallic surround formed by the shape of the metal that comprises your car. For all-metal vehicles, it is that metal that diverts electric current to run along the metal surfaces and then to ground, leaving the enclosed space inside the vehidle, including you, untouched. Your rubber tires are, as you think, insulators. However, that isn't what protects you.

When lightening forms it begins as an intense aggregation of electric charge up in a cloud. When the cloud moves across the land, an image (of opposite charge) travels along in the ground (earth) beneath the cloud. Just as a lightening strike is about to occur, electric streamers begin to head from the cloud to the ground, but also from the ground to the cloud. In fact there are many at first and it is only when two of them of opposite charge meat that an electrical circuit between cloud and ground closes and a huge amount of electric current rushes down and crosses a gigantic air gap. It's an incredible force of nature when you consider how large an air gap the electricity must jump. The spark of your spark plugs are the same thing, but the gap is minuscule in comparison.

People used to attach a metallic strap on the lower back of their vehicles, so it would constantly be making contact between the metal of the car and the road surface as the car drove along, hoping to act like lightening arresters that you have probably seen on barns, with something metallic on the top of the barn, at it highest point, attached to a heavy gauge wire running down the side of the barn and buried deep in the ground.

The problem with that solution was that it helped a lightening strike get its start from the ground side, as it effectively places the ground's charge at the top of the vehicle. That means that cars with such metallic straps were MORE LIKELY to suffer a lightening strike than LESS. The Faraday Cage construction still played its role (normally keeping passengers safe) but it doesn't always work perfectly.

At the same time, worrying about paint trapped between the mating surfaces of metal joints, given the notion of "fretting" mentioned above now seems possibly silly. Nonetheless, you do want all of the metal parts of your vehicle to be in tight contact with one another so the entire metal assembly forms a single pathway for electricity to run through (think of the battery positive and ground just about anywhere you touch), and the more metal the safer you will be, otherwise the Faraday Cage might not protect you. If a lightening bolt were to strike dead on at the very top of your car, it normally would not pass straight down to the ground. Instead, it most likely would take the easiest way to get to ground (i.e., that path of least resistance), which is found by following the metal pathways and then jumping the much shortened gap presented by your tires. Rubber tires are good and rubber tires are bad all at the same time. I don't know for certain if it is true, but I suspect it is true that there have been events where people were killed by lightening striking cars. And hey, fiberglass isn't metal!!!

Posts in this topic
- Langing   What is the best way to protect bare iron metal from rust?   Jun 14, 2014 - 10:08 PM
- - njccmd2002   Dip in phosphorus?.. Powdercoating is best. Go t...   Jun 14, 2014 - 10:58 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 14, 2014 - 11...   Jun 14, 2014 - 11:38 PM
- - njccmd2002   RE: What is the best way to protect bare iron metal from rust?   Jun 14, 2014 - 11:04 PM
- - Box   Coca~Cola=carbonic acid and phosphoric acid. Vine...   Jun 15, 2014 - 12:13 AM
- - Nial   Best thing to do, buy some "bilt hamber Deox ...   Jun 15, 2014 - 2:36 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Nial @ Jun 15, 2014 - 3:36 AM...   Jun 15, 2014 - 9:50 AM
|- - Nial   QUOTE (Langing @ Jun 15, 2014 - 10:5...   Jun 15, 2014 - 11:10 AM
- - Box   The last option is just to move further south.   Jun 15, 2014 - 2:50 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Box @ Jun 15, 2014 - 3:50 AM)...   Jun 15, 2014 - 10:05 AM
|- - Box   QUOTE (Langing @ Jun 15, 2014 - 10:0...   Jun 15, 2014 - 11:42 AM
- - njccmd2002   eastwood. cheaper in home depot so many produ...   Jun 15, 2014 - 11:46 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 15, 2014 - 12...   Jun 15, 2014 - 12:48 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 15, 2014 - 12...   Jun 17, 2014 - 2:44 PM
- - Box   Well. as long as you didn't take $50+ wor...   Jun 15, 2014 - 3:00 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Box @ Jun 15, 2014 - 4:00 PM)...   Jun 15, 2014 - 4:38 PM
- - Box   According to the instructions you rinse or wipe it...   Jun 15, 2014 - 6:11 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Box @ Jun 15, 2014 - 7:11 PM)...   Jun 15, 2014 - 6:54 PM
- - Special_Edy   Rust converting primer is available at most autopa...   Jun 16, 2014 - 1:17 AM
- - njccmd2002   if lighting strikes, it wont strike the hub, it wi...   Jun 17, 2014 - 6:19 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 17, 2014 - 7...   Jun 18, 2014 - 8:39 AM
- - njccmd2002   RE: What is the best way to protect bare iron metal from rust?   Jun 18, 2014 - 5:40 PM
- - Langing   I know, but I'm learning. It's so exciting...   Jun 18, 2014 - 5:53 PM
- - Special_Edy   I never understood how people can believe that lig...   Jun 20, 2014 - 10:56 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Jun 20, 2014 - 11...   Jun 21, 2014 - 8:59 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Jun 20, 2014 - 11...   Jun 21, 2014 - 9:38 AM
- - Special_Edy   Addressing your concerns, 1. Paint is the best ba...   Jun 21, 2014 - 10:57 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Jun 21, 2014 - 11...   Jun 21, 2014 - 11:10 AM
- - Special_Edy   Im sure factory they didnt but I had them fall out...   Jun 21, 2014 - 7:05 PM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (Special_Edy @ Jun 21, 2014 - 8...   Jun 30, 2014 - 5:46 AM
- - rollingsevens77   red oxide is the best way to protect bare metal as...   Jun 30, 2014 - 2:09 AM
|- - Langing   QUOTE (rollingsevens77 @ Jun 30, 2014 - ...   Jun 30, 2014 - 6:07 AM
- - njccmd2002   hes from australia. red oxide might be a product t...   Jun 30, 2014 - 7:23 AM
- - Langing   QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Jun 30, 2014 - 8...   Jun 30, 2014 - 9:42 AM


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