6G Celicas Forums

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> N2o NOS ZEX NX, what do you think????
post Jan 19, 2006 - 10:43 AM
+Quote Post
Punch



Enthusiast
****
Joined Jan 29, '04
From Brooklyn moved to Miramar Florida
Currently Offline

Reputation: 2 (100%)




NX express, ZEX, NOS has any have some on there car ???? gonna put some on my new motor only a 50 shot...
 
Start new topic
Replies
post Jan 29, 2006 - 10:34 AM
+Quote Post
NuclearHappineS

Enthusiast
*
Joined Oct 17, '04
From St Louis, MO
Currently Offline

Reputation: 0 (0%)




'im talking about the "getting a pro to tune it" part. how the hell do you tune your fuel and timing to accept an instant hit of 50hp out of nowhere? these econo motors are just not strong enough for that type of stress, and the ecu has no clue as to how to compensate for something like that'

how do you tune a motor to accpet some 21 lbs of boost coming in between 3000 and 4000 rpm ?

tuning the motor comes down to 2 things really...tuning the fuel , tuning the ignition timing...

there are other things you can do (tune the cam timing, adjust the 'lobe seperation angle' to maximize nitrous delivery, tune your headers and exhaust for the increased flow, port your head and intake manifold to achieve better n2o distribution if you;'re not going direct port)

but ignoring all that since this is only a 50 shot ...

how do you adjust the fuel ?
the kit takes care of it either by raising your fuel pressure for dry kits or by spraying the extra fuel through wet nozzle....or if you're bad ass you add injector duty cycle through your standalone with a complex dry kit.

how do you adjust your timing?
well nitrous does burn faster than regular oxygen. That's why it requires timing retard. That you you maintain peak cylinder pressure far enough after top dead center to prevent detonation, and to maximize power deliver ... you need 1-2 degrees of retard for every 100 hp added to the motor. given that this is only a 50 shot then you only need 0.5-1 degrees of retard...and given that this is a toyota motor then i'd be damned if toyota put in less than 0.5-1 degree of safety margin in their stock tune...and given that nitrous comes in at some -200 degrees ferenheit then detonation is not really an issue untill you start trying to cram alot of it into the motor ...and given that most kits out of the box are tuned around 10:1 A/F ratio or richer it's very hard for you to even get to the point where you NEED the suggested retard by the manufacturer.

you adjust the timing by backing off your base timing, or by using an msd btm or a crane timing master, or having a different timing map ... or using an apexi ITC and having retard in the higher rpms (say 3000-redline) where you'd be using the nitrous ... or by not retarding the timing at all but always running higher octane or race gas when you spray (which burns slower, hence not requiring timing retard at all)

have you ever heard of a nitrous/methanol kit... it's a wet kit that uses methanol as the supplimentary fuel...methanol is @ 114-117 octane.. you need to ADVANCE your timing to run that kind of a nitrous kit because the octane is so high that the mixture burns slower than the stock mixture...so you advance your timing to bring Peak cylinder pressure back where it needs to be to maximize power delivery...

then there's other things to tune...

some people use nitrous delay boxes or use really short fuel lines to the fuel solenoid and really long lines from the nitrous solonoid ... this softens the 'hit' which really reduces the length of the initial lean spike caused by nitrous flowing faster than the fuel ...

other things to tune are cam timing... advanced exhaust cam timing helps
usually having a seperate fuel pressure regulator on the supplimentary fuel suppline line allows you to fine tune your a/f ratio on the juice without affecting your tune off the nitrous... besides changing jets is more a dramatic change in a/f numbers... whereas adjusting fuel pressure is more gradual...

last but not least ...it is no longer an instant hit of 50 hp... with the newer kits you don't feel it hit anymore...

both the new nitrous oxide system's Noszle (direct port under the injector) kit and their new pro race fogger direct port kits are very soft hitting ... i've seen a dyno of the noszle kit in a mustang magazine spraying a 100 shot and they had the old style dyno output vs rpm

it looks something like this :

3000 +18
3100 +34
3200 +75
3400 +100

so it never really 'hit' ... it gradually came in over 400 rpms... the new nitrous wet kits are the same ...they use the 'soft plume' nozzles that are meant to soften the blow of the nitrous introduction (which is where most damage can occur to the engine) ... and they started going this route mainly because on direct port kits you have little distance between the nozzle and the cylinder so the effects of the activation lean spike could be amplified while the fuel tries to keep up with the nitrous...

year after year nitrous is getting safer and more attractive

-nuke


--------------------
2005 MB C200 Kompressor- K&N, Apexi WS2 Catback, DIY Voltage stabilizer, Intrax Springs, H&R RR swaybar, VDO Boost Gauge @ 6psi, Greddy L7 plugs, +0 Rear tires
To Do: E-manage Ultimate tuned up to 12psi

Posts in this topic
- Punch   N2o NOS ZEX NX   Jan 19, 2006 - 10:43 AM
- - Supersprynt   RE: N2o NOS ZEX NX   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:50 AM
- - playr158   if your 3s swapping there is no need for Nitrous   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:51 AM
- - jgreening   I have done a fair amount of reading about the top...   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:54 AM
- - GMoney   hey man there is no need for the Nos right now ......   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:57 AM
- - playr158   say nitrous please NOS is a brand not the actual ...   Jan 19, 2006 - 12:07 PM
- - x_itchy_b_x   id squirt if i had the money to have my motor -Pro...   Jan 19, 2006 - 1:36 PM
- - CilverSeliST205   Believe it or not but if you put as much effort in...   Jan 19, 2006 - 2:03 PM
- - purplegt4   i say if u know -the differences between each ap...   Jan 19, 2006 - 2:19 PM
- - celicast3sgte   im considering the cryosystem or whatever its call...   Jan 19, 2006 - 9:02 PM
- - SHERMAN   QUOTEim considering the cryosystem or whatever its...   Jan 19, 2006 - 9:23 PM
- - 97sccelica   too expensive for the refills had a 100 shot on m...   Jan 19, 2006 - 10:01 PM
- - celicast3sgte   what motor and did you compensate for the nos with...   Jan 19, 2006 - 10:12 PM
- - JoKeRkId613   david, only do it if youre going with a direct por...   Jan 19, 2006 - 10:55 PM
- - lagos   its a good thing for a quick joyride, but a slow c...   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:24 PM
- - 97sccelica   QUOTE(celicast3sgte @ Jan 19, 2006 - 7...   Jan 19, 2006 - 11:37 PM
- - Punch   gonna run a 50 shot direct port; hopefully with ab...   Jan 20, 2006 - 1:29 AM
- - lagos   QUOTE(Punch @ Jan 20, 2006 - 1:29 AM...   Jan 20, 2006 - 1:47 AM
- - 97sccelica   QUOTE(lagos @ Jan 19, 2006 - 10:47 P...   Jan 20, 2006 - 1:26 PM
- - JoKeRkId613   QUOTE(97sccelica @ Jan 20, 2006 - 11...   Jan 21, 2006 - 12:47 AM
- - lagos   QUOTE(97sccelica @ Jan 20, 2006 - 1...   Jan 21, 2006 - 2:30 AM
- - Punch   no blowing up over here... i will keep u all info...   Jan 21, 2006 - 4:58 AM
- - Bigmeanbulldog55   What is this doing in the Turbo forum? Is nitrous...   Jan 21, 2006 - 1:25 PM
- - shin   erm just to clarify things. he intends to put the ...   Jan 21, 2006 - 1:28 PM
- - Cutrara   How did he blow his 5S? Nitrous? lol   Jan 21, 2006 - 8:03 PM
- - JoKeRkId613   QUOTE(Bigmeanbulldog55 @ Jan 21, 2006 - ...   Jan 21, 2006 - 9:18 PM
- - Punch   yup dam bearing....   Jan 23, 2006 - 2:28 AM
- - kenjamatic   had a friend that went through 3 5sfe motors on hi...   Jan 23, 2006 - 3:57 PM
- - Punch   a little nitrous = alot of fun... Its not gonna b...   Jan 24, 2006 - 12:06 AM
- - NuclearHappineS   i hate this thread. did your friend that go throu...   Jan 29, 2006 - 10:14 AM
- - NuclearHappineS   'im talking about the "getting a pro to t...   Jan 29, 2006 - 10:34 AM
- - NuclearHappineS   to quote a very intelligent nitrous user (runs his...   Jan 29, 2006 - 10:48 AM
- - Punch   I will go for it, it will be in the car soon...   Feb 7, 2006 - 2:56 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: July 24th, 2025 - 2:13 PM