7th gen motor in a 6th Gen? Options

[VancouverChik94]

Is it possible to put a 7th gen GTS motor ( 180HP VVTL-i) into a 6th Gen GTS ?

[Dr_Tweak]

Hmmm, don't know how I missed this one. I usually scan the threads and look for swap related ones, but I skipped right over this I guess.

The 2ZZGE is a totally doable swap, especially in the Celica. The upsides of the swap are:

It's a legal swap (federal law states you may not swap an engine into a car that is newer than the engine you're swapping in, which is the case with 3SGTE swaps 90% of the time. Exceptions are the BEAMS and the 3rd Gen 3SGTE, depending on what year your Celica is. That's right, almost EVERY 3SGTE swapper on this site is in violation of Federal law. (Thankfully, no one really enforces this law except for in the state of California.) Let me take this moment to say that any such swaps performed at Phoenix Tuning are for off-road use only. *cough*)

It's a USDM engine, which means easy-to-find parts (not really a big issue with the 3SGTE, but still something to think about, and if you're thinking about swapping a 4AGE silvertop or blacktop, IS something to consider).

It's a very new engine, whereas 2nd Gen 3SGTEs are getting to be at LEAST 10 years old.

The downsides are:

The engine is VERY expenive, often more than a 2nd gen 3SGTE

Less potential: while the 3SGTE can easily be upgraded, the 2ZZGE (much like the Ford SHO engine, which was also built by Yamaha) is so well built and so highly tuned from the factory, there is little you can do to make more power. You can't raise the compression much (it's already at 11.5:1), cams aren't any use (already has VVTL-i), can't have a header made (comes with a true equal-length header stock), etc. Short of a full low-compression rebuild and f/i, you can get a few more ponies out of it with a Power FC, intake/exhaust, and lightweight flywheel.

Reliability: Some questions have been raised about how reliable the 2ZZGE engine is, it's a little more fragile when compared with engines like the 4AGE and 3SGTE. On that note, it's also quite a bit lighter (alloy block).

That said, here's how to swap it. It's actually quite easy. You basically have two options:

1. Use a stock 7AFE tranny: with this setup you can use three of the four stock engine mounts, and most likely, the 4th one was well. You use stock 7A axles, but then you don't get the 6-speed tranny. To do this the bellhousing on the 7A tranny must be replaced with a 1ZZFE or 2ZZGE unit (or, just use a complete 1ZZFE tranny which will swap right in).

2. Use the GTS 6-speed tranny. This would require custom mounts (maybe) on the tranny mount locations, and possibly custom axles. However, I've heard that the S54 (5SFE Celica GT) inner splines fit into the GTS tranny (C60), if that's the case then the S54 axles MIGHT fit right in. This is speculation at this point. Otherwise, custom axle bars run about $300. Also, you would need a shifter assembly from a 7th gen GTS and probably a custom bracket to hold it. I don't know about the cables.

Either way, you would need a customized exhaust hookup, which MAY require modifying the 2ZZGE header, custom intake, and of course the p/s, a/c, coolant, and other plumbing.

Wiring is slightly harder than a 3SGTE swap, and will be a little easier to wire into a '96 and newer (OBDII) Celica. Did I mention this will pass OBDII scans?

Total cost on this swap at my shop would be $1000 for labor. I'd estimate about $2500-$3500 for parts, putting it close to 3SGTE range depending on if you have an ST or a GT, and how lucky you are sourcing parts.

A note about F/I. From what I understand, there is a supercharger kit that is/will be available for the Lotus, and there is at least one turbo kit out for the 2ZZGE. With that information we can deduce that a carefully designed and well-built turbo system could be installed on an otherwise stock 2ZZGE with good results. Since 91 octane is already required for the 2ZZGE, I'd expect that 93 octane would be a must. It would produce about 250hp at the crank. With a complete rebuild using forged rods and low-compression pistons, I see no reason why this engine couldn't push 15 psi and make... a lot of power. Think $$$

I suspect that a stock 2ZZGE swapped Celica would be just as fast as a stock 3SGTE swapped Celica. As soon as modification begins, the 3SGTE would leave it behind. Remember this point: the 3SGTE is THE BEST Toyota 4-cylinder engine that you can use, and possibly, the best 4-cylinder engine of any manufacturer PERIOD. (Competitors are the SR20DET, 4G63T, EJ20 and EJ25)) If you want BIG power, you just can't beat it. If you're going to swap an engine in and you plan on keeping it stock, you want an n/a engine, you want something newer, something that will pass OBDII, just be unique, etc, then the 2ZZGE is a DEFINITE option to consider.

-Doc



This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Feb 6, 2006 - 5:14 AM