Just found out a "Friend" I work with is a sex offender, 2nd Conviction for extreme child molestation Options

[DEATH]

I'm so messed up in the head right now. I feel like killing this man myself and I know nothing of the child other than she was two years old and this is his second conviction. A little background:
I work at a machine/fabrication shop where I'm the head of the engineering department. That means I and the people under me design equipment and parts for equipment that performs a specific function. All of which means I'm out on the shop floor very often, making sure the parts and assemblies I design work properly before they go into mass production. One of the guys I worked pretty closely with in our weld room over the last 8 years or so was on parole for some felony or another - heck most of these guys are. It's just the sort trade that employs alot of ex-cons [I'd say there are more ex-cons than not in the male population out here in the shop]. Now granted, I didn't hang with the guy outside of work, I never had beers with him or any of that. The most I ever saw outside of work was once when he drove his car into a ditch I helped him out, drove him to work. But he seemed like this really nice old man who, yeah maybe fcuked up bad when he was younger and now was just living the rest of his life the best he could. He had several embarresing visits from his Parole Officer up here - he took them in stride, didn't get upset or overly embarresed. He seemed repentative and content to live out his last few years peacefully.
This morning I find out he won't be coming back to work anymore because he was caught sexually molesting a 2yo little girl. Nevermind the question how did he get a little girl like that alone - I have no idea of the details. Sounds to me like some parents need to be going to jail too but that's another question and I have no way of judging that situation [It's just I'm a parent and I know noone is ever allowed time like that around my children with out my knowledge and supervision]. I also found out that that was the felony he was previously convicted of and had served his time for [And I hope those of you who don't support the death penalty for sex crimes are proud of yourselves - I'm sure this little girl would thank you for your kindness if she could. Sarcasm, obviously. If we had executed him the first time this happened another little girl wouldn't have had her life ruined by this horrible act.].
As I said - It's got me messed up. I'm usually a great judge of character but I never saw this coming. I think that if I had found this out before the police did it would be me in jail for murder and him 6 feet under ATM. And I don't feel in the least bit remorseful about that.
These fcuking bastards should all be killed to protect the world's children from them. That's my opinion.
Please discuss this. Please do so maturely. Please respect other's opinions.
Mod's - I'm sorry in advance if this must be closed - I just don't know any other group this diverse that I can get other opinions from that will be different from my own.

[presure2]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

[DEATH]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

Thanks Pressure. See I know we have mature adults from over seas on here as well and I know their opinions on the death penalty often widely differ from our own. This is one of those situations, I beleive, that shows the rehabilitation system has just allowed for another innocent to be harmed. I'd just like to see what those that normally would say "But we can't just kill them" think now. Someone took that attitude and now a little girl's life has been ruined in the most horrible of ways. I know girls who were molested as a child. For some reason the Goth community is full of twisted adult females who can trace their sexual preferences right back to some haenous act such as this. So I'm a little biased - I can see where this leads.
I'd like to hear from some of our friends here who normally oppose capital punishment. What are their thoughts now that we see it most certainly should have been the solution to this man's problems.
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to hear those other views. I just hope we can keep this civil and mature [I think we can].

D-Man - I knew this one would touch you personally. I already knew that you're oppinion would be the same as mine. Thank you for articulating a very good interum solution. I think until we can get the proper death penalties installed, you're ideas would be the next best thing.

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

[Shink]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

I think you'll find I'm not too wrong in saying that the European perspective is very similar. Sex crimes are some of the very worst crimes imaginable simply because of the innocence of the victim and the f***ed up nature of the crime. I, myself, am utterly appalled and saddened by this and can imagine that this has really hurt you - as a father, especially.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

That is the rational side of it. But I know that just like you, and everyone else I expect, I'd want to kill the ****er, too

Edit: just wanted to add - I do recognize that not all sex criminals are mentally ill - some people are just plain bad.

This post has been edited by Shink: Jul 18, 2008 - 10:35 AM

[saleeka]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

I really appreciate what you have posted, because I feel it is a very educated opinion, and one that looks to truly solve the problem. I really don't want to go into the sex offender side of this equation because I don't wish to have my point misunderstood, but as for the death penalty, I see it as a very extreme measure that should not be used in most circumstances. I've noticed that a few people have commented that we don't use the death penalty enough. I don't hold that same view for a couple reasons.

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved. Nobody wins, because putting to death the offender doesn't reverse the crime that was committed. A Criminal's family has to experience the pain of losing a family member because of someone else's actions, just as the family of the victim. As expensive as many say it is to incarcerate someone for the rest of their life, I don't think many realize how much money is spent on those who travel through the court system of appeals on death row. The difference isn't as large as some would like to believe.

I'm not saying that there is an easy answer to problems like these, as we still have issues like this that need solving. With our population growing, crimes like this are only going to become more visible, so I really think the focus should be understanding why people do things like this, so we can then learn how to rehabilitate offenders of many different crimes (if possible). Because the focus isn't on integrating felons back into our society, I could see why many criminals feel as if they have nothing left to loose, and have no real incentive to change. All of this may sound like a far off and distant dream, but I really believe that you aren't going to stop violent crime and death by using the same methods we are today.

This post has been edited by saleeka: Jul 18, 2008 - 11:57 AM

[DEATH]

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved.

It's thinking like this that allowed the second child above to be harmed. I thank you for your opinion and respect it. I do want people to voice them but I'm sorry I can't agree. Some dogs deserve/need to be put down.
And let me repeat what I've said a million times:
I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life". IMO a human needs to prove his worth - there is no inherrant "Value of human life" any more than there is in animal/plant life. That's all a bunch of humanitarian BS thought up by learned humans. It goes against basic human nature and it just isn't true. This man was a welder for a living, he has no children of his own and he had nothing else to offer society except the molestation of children - no inherrant "value of human life" [Except his skills and deeds as a welder]. His life was not worth rehabilitating and he proved it by offending again despite societies best efforts to change him.

I'm going to stay out of this thread after this...I've said my bit

I hope it was not anything I said. I value your well thought out opinions and contributions to this thread.

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

This is the most intelligent thing said here in this thread. It's very true and I hope for all of societies sake that we someday find a way to achieve this. But for now, in this day with these means - the only hope is, at the very minimum, life without parole. Execution would be much more appropriate.



This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:42 PM

[saleeka]

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved.

It's thinking like this that allowed the second child above to be harmed.

And let me repeat what I've said a million times:
I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life".

Please don't confuse my opinion of the death penalty as me saying that the sex offender you describe in your original post shouldn’t have consequences- I clearly laid out in my original post that I was separating the two. I still feel that lifetime incarceration achieves the same goal you are looking for. That said, I strongly believe the value of human life should NEVER be taken for granted. Hitler successfully sold to the German people that exact concept, and millions of "less valuable" human beings were exterminated in the process. The de-humanization of people is a very slippery slope, because who gets to decide who's life is more important? First murderers and sex offenders deserve to die, then armed robbers, then adulterers, then ...? Now, I'm obviously using drastic examples, but I feel it highlights the problem with setting a value to human life, or rights, for that matter. It's too much like playing God for me... I want to clarify that I don't think you shouldn’t feel the way you do, I really enjoy open dialog about people's thoughts like this. We can all only grow from taking the time to see other's point of view, and I hope it lets you vent off in a positive way

[DEATH]

I really enjoy open dialog about people's thoughts like this. We can all only grow from taking the time to see other's point of view, and I hope it lets you vent off in a positive way

I agree with this 100%