3SGE Beams VS 4AGE Blacktop 6SPD Options

[JoKeRkId613]

I will be getting a redtop Beams 3SGE in my Celica around mid-May. But I'm curious as to which engine really is better. I mean, if the ST205 was the exact same engine except no turbo, how much HP would it put out approximately, compared to the already NA Beams. I think Beams puts out 200HP(please correct me, if wrong...)? Thanks. I guess maybe what I'm trying to figrue out is if you stuck some low-comp pistons in the Beams and some other minor mods and the same CT26 or CT20 turbo, would it have more horses and be more powerful than the factory ST205?

Also, I'm real stuck between the Beams and 4AGE blacktop 6 speed. What would you guys choose? and why? Price isn't an issue and both engines will be left stock, maybe minor mods(Intake, Headers, Exhaust)...

Some advantages I see with the blacktop is that since my car is a coupe, I already have a tiny bit of weight advantage over a hatchback and the blacktop being a 1.6L will keep me at lower weight and it has 6speeds.

[delusionz]

I know I'm digging up an old thread here, but would the redtop 3s-ge beams head not have better flow characteristics than a silvertop 3s-ge head? and what about changing the vvt-i changeover point to be at the point of positive boost....

Just in querying in response to claims that turboing a red top would not give u better power than starting with a 3s-gte itself... What I have in mind is the update to the 1jz-gte engine in the JDM Toyota Soarer (Aka Lexus SC300 to you guys) in 1996 where the engine went from IL6 2500cc twin turbo to IL6 2500cc single turbo VVT-i, the hp figure remained 276hp but the torque figures looked a hell of alot better; 378Nm @ 2400RPM for VVT-i and 363Nm @ 4800RPM for the older twin turbo (numbers from from wikipedia).. Thoughts anyone?

[Kwanza26]

I know I'm digging up an old thread here, but would the redtop 3s-ge beams head not have better flow characteristics than a silvertop 3s-ge head? and what about changing the vvt-i changeover point to be at the point of positive boost....

Just in querying in response to claims that turboing a red top would not give u better power than starting with a 3s-gte itself... What I have in mind is the update to the 1jz-gte engine in the JDM Toyota Soarer (Aka Lexus SC300 to you guys) in 1996 where the engine went from IL6 2500cc twin turbo to IL6 2500cc single turbo VVT-i, the hp figure remained 276hp but the torque figures looked a hell of alot better; 378Nm @ 2400RPM for VVT-i and 363Nm @ 4800RPM for the older twin turbo (numbers from from wikipedia).. Thoughts anyone?

Reviving a very old thread... heh

First off, I should correct your statement "silvertop 3s-ge". I'm going to assume you're talking about the silvertop 4age. In which case, the silvertop 4age, although it does have 3 intake valves, the actual valve surface is only marginally larger than a standard 16v 4age. I don't think it has better flow characteristics than a Beams redtop 3sge, given the beams head makes near 200hp at the same revolutions as the silvertop 20V. The difference is, the 4A block is much better designed to rev, whereas the 3S block is not, yet the 3SGE still matches the 4AGE silvertop in terms of hp per liter. Not to mention the 20V 4ag's have a much better "top-end" intake set-up...

As far as VVTi goes, I think you are confused about the function of VVTi. The purpose of VVTi is to improve throttle response, which is dictated by the torque curve. In terms of raw horsepower, VVTi is negated by the fact it is variable and computer controlled. It does not work, as you mention, like VTEC or VVT where you can change the crossover point. VVTi is always engaging (for the most part) and works based on throttle position, engine speed, etc. It's not a switchover where you would notice power gains. By the time the engine speeds up enough to make maximum power, VVTi is already negated because its function is to provide torque in the mid-range. Basically, it drastically doesn't affect horsepower. Race motors (high horsepower motors) tend to eliminate computer controlled cam timing because, although it can work to improve mid-range torque and overall useability, it's not designed to maximize power, hence you would probably end up with relatively the same amount of power as a normal 3SGTE, because that's essentially wht you'd have built, VVTi or not. So why the trouble?