Nonconformity and conformity..agree or disagree? Options

[mmmchocolate]

No matter how hard one tires to be a Nonconformist, absolute individuality is unattainable. The ones who go against the flow will never find themselves alone, there will always be another who has gone before them, who has tried the same things. Pure nonconformity virtually does not exist, but if you look at religion, each is nonconforming within itself.
Dressing differently than others would be classified as nonconformity. One may be utterly different from their surroundings and be extremely individual, but somewhere else in the world someone else feels or looks the exact same. Furthermore, if one is classified as a nonconformist you are a conformist. How is this so? In a group of nonconformists, each individual is conforming to nonconforming. Pure nonconformity cannot exist in this universe, and if one possibly achieves this feat, they would be rejected by society, considering they do not exile themselves first.
“Whoso would be a man must also be a nonconformist.” This is neither a statement nor a question; it is more of an opinion. Although, in my opinion everyone is a conformist, there are nonconformists within certain areas. For instance, schools have those certain members who are rejected or cast themselves out; they are the nonconformists. Another example of this is that every clique within a school or organization is nonconforming within itself. The group of jocks and the group of Goths may consider one another nonconformists against each other. Small groups of nonconformists exist everywhere.
Wherever one goes in life, one will run into a person who believes they are nonconformists. This person(s) will believe they are unique in every way and that no one feels the same way that they do. They do not want sympathy, they do not want attention, and they just want to be left alone. These people will honestly tell you this is how they feel and that they are being nonconformists. To me, this is FALSE! They are NOT the only ones who feel depressed or hated or however they are feeling. There are hundreds maybe millions of people who feel the exact same way. Ultimate nonconformity is impossible.
If one looks for nonconformity, one could look at religion. Christianity has Christians who are nonconformists to, lets say, Hinduism. And Hinduism has Hindus who are nonconformists to Christianity. Any religion would classify another religion as nonconformity. One could say that Charles Darwin was the first and possibly the only true nonconformist, to our immediate knowledge that is. It is all relative to what one believes and has faith in.
Though “pure” nonconformity is extremely rare, nonconformity needs to exist for a society to function properly. If every single person conforms to the exact same thing, life would be dull, boring, and bleak. It would be like sitting in a room with twenty other individuals, each sitting in the same direction, wearing masks and the exact same clothing. You cannot move, talk, or do anything. A world without nonconformists would be hell. Every person has a personality, and in order for that personality to thrive one must not conform to at least some things. A little nonconformity brings life into the everyday life. It is what separates us from the norm, and makes us the individuals that God intended from the very beginning.
If one is classified as a nonconformist you are a conformist. One may be utterly different from their surroundings and be extremely individual, but somewhere else in the world someone else feels or looks the exact same. Although, in my opinion everyone is a conformist, there are nonconformists within certain areas. For instance, schools have those certain members who are rejected or cast themselves out; they are the nonconformists. Wherever one goes in life, one will run into a person who believes they are nonconformists. If one looks for nonconformity, one could look at religion. Nonconformity is not a bad thing, it is a very good thing, but being a conformists in some areas is also a very good thing.

This is my opinion----^

I recently wrote this for a school paper , but I want some outside input...

What do you think? Are there nonconformists in society or is everyone a conformist? And is it good or bad?

Get the brain gears turning!

[forkee]

to nonconform is to conform

example:
2 people disagree on a topic

yet

they agree to disagree

so it is impossible to disagree (or nonconform) to everything

[Taskbot]

to nonconform is to conform

example:
2 people disagree on a topic

yet

they agree to disagree

so it is impossible to disagree (or nonconform) to everything

that's just making the definition of conformity too vague. Conformity is an active choice not a passive choice. You actively chose to conform. They don't read a post like mine and say "That taskbot, he really represents dominant culture and holds a lot of power. If I agree with his post, I might be able to gain some of that cultural capital or avoid being discriminated against because my world-view is different." They probably don't even read my post. Someone who takes this position does so, even before entering the forum and posting. Conformity of posts has nothing to do with this topic.

Though you last point is valid, you used a hilarious premise that I had to call you out for.

It is impossible to be a non-conformist forever, I think. Unless you live a very short life as a complete social outcast or have anti-social personality disorder it would be pretty hard to live an entire life where you find nobody you want to be like or an ideal you want to conform to.

[3WayStunna]

to nonconform is to conform

example:
2 people disagree on a topic

yet

they agree to disagree

so it is impossible to disagree (or nonconform) to everything

that's just making the definition of conformity too vague. Conformity is an active choice not a passive choice. You actively chose to conform. They don't read a post like mine and say "That taskbot, he really represents dominant culture and holds a lot of power. If I agree with his post, I might be able to gain some of that cultural capital or avoid being discriminated against because my world-view is different." They probably don't even read my post. Someone who takes this position does so, even before entering the forum and posting. Conformity of posts has nothing to do with this topic.

Though you last point is valid, you used a hilarious premise that I had to call you out for.

It is impossible to be a non-conformist forever, I think. Unless you live a very short life as a complete social outcast or have anti-social personality disorder it would be pretty hard to live an entire life where you find nobody you want to be like or an ideal you want to conform to.

Taskbot, ive been trying to read and keep up with all you have said, and I have to admit that its all pretty interesting, but has it ever crossed you, that maybe one can choose to follow nothing but themselves, therefore they are choosing not to conform to anything.

And i do belive this beats the mindset that, WHAT IF, there were a group of individuals that all shared that point of veiw...hmm, you try to get 2 ppl with radical veiws unbiased by anything around them, to form a structure that is beneficial to themselves, and following the mindset i am trying to explain, no they wouldnt do anything to benefit each other unless due to them not caring. i mean they are in it for themselves to follow their own thoughts, or desires...ignoring those of others, and choosing to just do what they want...no if want they want happens to be in common, is that conforming....it sounds stupid to be like that, considering there are countless situations where that would actually be healthy to them, but if they were true non-conformist, why would they form a conforming structered level of trust, for any reason? It would be impossible. But that is with two individuals....back to just one person, what if a group of other chose to follow that one non-conforming individual. Then what...would that make him a conformist...no, i would think not...he isnt the one conforming to any ideal except his own...but those that choose to follow him, are the conformist...just like you said, it is an active choice to do say, and if they actively choose to do so then, yea....

Think of the movie fight club...i mean really, brad pitt, didnt follow any social standards, and didnt really care about those beneath him...those who choose to follow him. only himself...that attitude though, was just what i was talkin about though...

Is that possible, like you said yourself, yes it is...its just not healthy, in some cases....either to them, or those around them...

I mean, the definition of non-conformity is basically that...its a thought pattern, a choice to choose to think differntly, radically or not, against convention.
Man my head is hurting...did any of this even make sense?

[Taskbot]

to nonconform is to conform

example:
2 people disagree on a topic

yet

they agree to disagree

so it is impossible to disagree (or nonconform) to everything

that's just making the definition of conformity too vague. Conformity is an active choice not a passive choice. You actively chose to conform. They don't read a post like mine and say "That taskbot, he really represents dominant culture and holds a lot of power. If I agree with his post, I might be able to gain some of that cultural capital or avoid being discriminated against because my world-view is different." They probably don't even read my post. Someone who takes this position does so, even before entering the forum and posting. Conformity of posts has nothing to do with this topic.

Though you last point is valid, you used a hilarious premise that I had to call you out for.

It is impossible to be a non-conformist forever, I think. Unless you live a very short life as a complete social outcast or have anti-social personality disorder it would be pretty hard to live an entire life where you find nobody you want to be like or an ideal you want to conform to.

Taskbot, ive been trying to read and keep up with all you have said, and I have to admit that its all pretty interesting, but has it ever crossed you, that maybe one can choose to follow nothing but themselves, therefore they are choosing not to conform to anything.

And i do belive this beats the mindset that, WHAT IF, there were a group of individuals that all shared that point of veiw...hmm, you try to get 2 ppl with radical veiws unbiased by anything around them, to form a structure that is beneficial to themselves, and following the mindset i am trying to explain, no they wouldnt do anything to benefit each other unless due to them not caring. i mean they are in it for themselves to follow their own thoughts, or desires...ignoring those of others, and choosing to just do what they want...no if want they want happens to be in common, is that conforming....it sounds stupid to be like that, considering there are countless situations where that would actually be healthy to them, but if they were true non-conformist, why would they form a conforming structered level of trust, for any reason? It would be impossible. But that is with two individuals....back to just one person, what if a group of other chose to follow that one non-conforming individual. Then what...would that make him a conformist...no, i would think not...he isnt the one conforming to any ideal except his own...but those that choose to follow him, are the conformist...just like you said, it is an active choice to do say, and if they actively choose to do so then, yea....

Think of the movie fight club...i mean really, brad pitt, didnt follow any social standards, and didnt really care about those beneath him...those who choose to follow him. only himself...that attitude though, was just what i was talkin about though...

Is that possible, like you said yourself, yes it is...its just not healthy, in some cases....either to them, or those around them...

I mean, the definition of non-conformity is basically that...its a thought pattern, a choice to choose to think differntly, radically or not, against convention.
Man my head is hurting...did any of this even make sense?

I like your ideas. It would be almost impossible to find out though. You would have to find someone so radical and out there, that all throughout their childhood they refused to play into the ideas and roles that were assigned to them. They would need to have no gender identity, they would need to skip over all of Erikson's or Freud's developmental stages (Psychosexual if you are a freudian; since this has a lot to do with conforming). This sounds like an interesting individual though. This is probably moot though, don't pay attention I am just outlining pure non-conformity.

Okay as for this individual. If one acts in their own way all the time yeah they would be a non-conformist and like Tylder Durden probably considered a revolutionary. They wouldn't be a conformist so long as they were always self-serving, whether it helps people around them or hinders. So long as they always act in their own way, they are a non-conformist. But Tyler Durden was an alternate identity of the narrator so....

My head hurts and you're making me think of Objectivism. Objectivist philosophy believes that you are always acting in your own way to achieve your own goals and that relationships are a construct of trade. Wether it be goods, or money or a feeling, you are always getting something from a relationship. Even a single sided relationship can be said to be producing something and giving it to you. I love my car, does my car love me? No, however I do get something back from the love I give to my car, I get the feeling of pleasure every time I drive it. No matter what you do in Objectivism, you are doing it for yourself.

Is this really relevant though? Not really until you throw in the context of conformity. Would an objectivity consider conformity? I am unsure. Conformity might not even have a meaning in Objectivism, it might just be a means to an end. I don't think Ayn Rand would hold the same weight on conformity that most others would, especially if the end result was being a non-conformist. So if your two individuals were Objectivists, they might not be conforming. Trust or even conformity (if they did) would be basically to further their own needs and the means to achieve their personal goals (which might be to be a non-conformist).

Alirght, I kind of give up. I have confused myself however in a backwards way I think I've answered your initial question and probably proved the point. Yes, it is entirely possible for someone to be a complete non-conformist... but its contextual almost. What might appear to be conformity to an outsider, might in fact be the person themselves trying to achieve their own goal. I think I need some time to consider this and come up with a concrete idea about conformity because even though my one definition I would say you can't be a non-conformist, by another definition I could say its all based on intent. Which means anything I've previously said may be conflicting with what I'm saying now... whoops.

I am not going through this post and proof reading it, its going to come out as confusing garbled ideas.