Mrgrapes war with RSX vs celica Options

[mrgrape]

k so i was as u guys know, looking for a car
http://www.dc5nation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824
self explanitory, they bashed on me like u guys do here
but then we got into a heated debate over RSX vs celica...
i said the torque on our celicas are faster then a RSX-S
but yeah i also might have found my car
ill post pics once i get it

[Helix]

One "problem" with the vvtl-i is that the "lift" doesn't last as long as the honda vtec. The hondas have higher redline i think...
What would you say if we compare the beams with type-s??

[DEATH]

One "problem" with the vvtl-i is that the "lift" doesn't last as long as the honda vtec. The hondas have higher redline i think...
What would you say if we compare the beams with type-s??

My buddy's GTS has a 8250RPM redline [Depends on the year greatly actually - I think they made two revisions IIRC] - tho it throws a misfire code if you stay above 8K too long [we're talking a second here]. He's on engine #3 over that particular issue - our friend who is a Toyota Tech says he thinks it's improperly sized injectors but IDK.
I'd pit an SS-III [A real one] vs a Type-S anyday - might be a close as hell race but I got my money on Toyota.

[Kwanza26]

LOL - I raced an RSX-S with my buddy's '01 GTS and let me tell you - it's nasty [At the track of course - I wouldn't race a friend's car any other way]. Race started out fairly even but the RSX must have better [or sooner lift] cause about midway thru 3rd gear the differences started showing.
Now our GT's may have more down-low tQ but I wouldn't pit a USDM GT against a Type-S unless it was Shannon's or Presure's

That's because torque doesn't mean much unless you have a ton of it to quickly turn long gears. If you're any less than 8 cylinders and 5 liters and/or not turbo/supercharged... you probably can't quickly turn long gears... therefore you utilize rotational dynamics and run short gears with higher rotation (Horsepower). Even our Celicas do this...

One "problem" with the vvtl-i is that the "lift" doesn't last as long as the honda vtec. The hondas have higher redline i think...
What would you say if we compare the beams with type-s??

My buddy's GTS has a 8250RPM redline [Depends on the year greatly actually - I think they made two revisions IIRC] - tho it throws a misfire code if you stay above 8K too long [we're talking a second here]. He's on engine #3 over that particular issue - our friend who is a Toyota Tech says he thinks it's improperly sized injectors but IDK.
I'd pit an SS-III [A real one] vs a Type-S anyday - might be a close as hell race but I got my money on Toyota.

Plain and simply, the K20 has a far better lift system, is an under-tuned motor from the factory, is a bigger motor, and a squared motor. It makes more torque than the average 2.0 liter, makes significantly more horsepower, and is under-tuned to boot (10 whp from a CAI!!!), not to mention in stock trim, can reliably hold revs over 9000 rpms. There aren't any real negative sides to the K20 as a tuning motor... whereas the 2ZZ does. The 2ZZ, you could argue is also under-tuned... but it's not so much under-tuned as it is poorly tuned to make horsepower during lift. That's why guys with standalone computers and piggybacks can make so much more power. In a head to head comparison however, the difference maker is the displacement. The 2ZZ will always make a bit less torque, therefore a bit less horsepower. Also, the 2ZZ still uses a bucket system, which typically isn't as efficient for high revs. High revs is the only way these guys are gonna make power. That being said, I would pick the K20 over the BEAMS easy. Hell, I'd pick the 2ZZ over the BEAMS because the 2ZZ can still be tuned up, while the BEAMS is a highly tuned motor from the factory. The beams does have a nice shiny red valve cover though...

[mrgrape]

Plain and simply, the K20 has a far better lift system, is an under-tuned motor from the factory, is a bigger motor, and a squared motor. It makes more torque than the average 2.0 liter, makes significantly more horsepower, and is under-tuned to boot (10 whp from a CAI!!!), not to mention in stock trim, can reliably hold revs over 9000 rpms. There aren't any real negative sides to the K20 as a tuning motor... whereas the 2ZZ does. The 2ZZ, you could argue is also under-tuned... but it's not so much under-tuned as it is poorly tuned to make horsepower during lift. That's why guys with standalone computers and piggybacks can make so much more power. In a head to head comparison however, the difference maker is the displacement. The 2ZZ will always make a bit less torque, therefore a bit less horsepower. Also, the 2ZZ still uses a bucket system, which typically isn't as efficient for high revs. High revs is the only way these guys are gonna make power. That being said, I would pick the K20 over the BEAMS easy. Hell, I'd pick the 2ZZ over the BEAMS because the 2ZZ can still be tuned up, while the BEAMS is a highly tuned motor from the factory. The beams does have a nice shiny red valve cover though...

damn i didnt know that...i feel like a dummy now...10whp just from a CAI!! damnn!
im still leaning towards the s14 right now, but if that doesnt work im def getting an RSX-S!
thanks man