Worklog: Anaxyd's 3S-GTE swap, Phase: Planning Options

[AnaXyd]

Time to organize a clean and well detailed guide. And of course, the worklog of the conversion of my car, split into the smallest detail. This guide will be parted into different phases......................
AnaXyd's 3S-GTE swap
- Swap from 7A-FE in a ST/AT200 to the 3S-GTE


[#] Prologue
I am a boy from Norway, which is now 19 years old. I bought my Celica for around a year ago, and have enjoyed every ride with it since. But, there is a but. The Celica looks like a hardcore sportscar, and it surely is; with the right engine. I have the 7A-FE engine, which pulls bad. The pulling begins at 5000 rpm, and that is a bit too late, when the max is about 6100rpm.

Well, I have been a member to this forum a long time. I have read a lot of the topics with swaps etc. and the hunger for the famous 3S-GTE engine have grown enormous right now. A swap to this engine should give my car the last touch, which stamps it a real sportscar. Right?

So, I live in Norway. Its a great country, but the laws are too strict. A swap like this requires a lot of paperwork, like a documentation from Toyota which tells me what to upgrade in the car so it can handle the power of the 3S-GTE. But, I am on the right way to my goal and I think it is possible. The engine is actually built for this car, so why not?

My plan for making this thread is to have a really good recipe to do the 3S-GTE swap. I will do it in a detailed level, and try to make a clean and well arranged thread/worklog. I hope you guys can help me getting this thread much better and detailed, to make it more easy for the next swappers.


[#] My car
My car is a ST/AT200, from 1996. The engine is 7A-FE, with 116hp. The car have 191.000km on the wheels, and it have been upgraded with many modifications this year. Like new leather seats, great stereo, new wheels, fixed brakes drums etc. The car have turned out really nice now, and my planned exterior upgrades are the JDM projector headlights, lowering and tinting. The car is LHD.

Some pictures:












[#] Things to reinforce/upgrade in my car
Things that I know I need to reinforce/upgrade in my car is:

- Better brakes. The 3S-GTE engine produces too much power for my little brakes that I have now.
Please give me some tips to this upgrade. Is it easy to swap the brakes from a GT4?

If I have forgotten something, please mention it to me!


[#] Things to buy for the swap

- Complete front cut 3S-GTE from rpmgarage.com. Is this a trustable shop to buy from? I see that I will get the whole front cut with harness, ECU, transmission and axles. Plus the Rear Subframe with all necessary parts to do the 4x4 swap. (Maybe one time I will do that? )
Price: Around $3000 + custom fee (around $750)

- Waterpump and timing belt replacement (do I need this?)
Price: unknown

- Seals, gaskets, broken parts replacement on the engine
Price: unknown ($1000+ is a fair budget maybe?)

- Painting, refreshing and visible "makeup" on the engine (just to look good)
Price: unknown (around $150)

- GT4 fuel pump?
Price: unknown

- Better brakes (Preferable the GT4 brakes, used)
Price: unknown ($1000+ ??)

- Modified engine harness?
Price: unknown

- Transmission (Preferable the 3S-GE with LSD, or the e153 with LSD)
Price: around $500

- Axles (Which fits my original hubs and the new tranny)
Price: around $300

- New clutch kit which fits the combination of the tranny and engine
Price: unknown

If I have forgotten something, please mention it to me!


[#] The transmission madness
This is a unclear subject, and we need some really explanation here. I cant write this 100%, but I'll try:

There is multiple trannys which fit the 3S-GTE engine:
- e153(?) MR2 turbo tranny with LSD
- 3S-GE tranny
- And there is more. I will fill in later

The best choice is to get a tranny with LSD, which makes it easier to do launches.

In addition to the tranny, we will still need:
- Shifter cables
e153(?) mr2 turbo tranny = 3S-GTE shifter cables
3SGE tranny = 3S-GE shifter cables

- Axles
Get the axles which originally fits the tranny we'll buy.

e153(?) mr2 turbo tranny = e153(?) mr2 turbo tranny axles
3SGE tranny = 3SGE tranny axles

And we will need a clutch. To match the tranny and engine combo, we need to mix some parts:
[your tranny] disk (or a custom made 3sgte disk, with the splines for [your tranny])
[your tranny] throwout bearing
[your tranny] alignment tool
3sgte pressure plate
3sgte flywheel (or just get your stock one resurfaced)

UNCERTAIN:NOTE FOR MR2 tranny: If we are going to use this one, we only need to buy a clutch kit for a 90-93 turbo MR2

Some quick facts about resurfacing:
- I'll know I have seen some conditions you have to bee aware of when resurfacing. Please tell me

[#] The axle madness
This is a really unclear subject. I have heard a lot of different views, so I am really confused with this one.

- If I'll buy the MR2 tranny and axles which fit it, will this fit perfectly into my wheel hubs?
- And what can I do to make sure the axles NEVER pop out? (It seems like this is a usual problem)

Please, if someone here knows, clarify this so we'll got the perfect recipe.


[#] The harness madness
The harness from the Japanese cars are too short, and they need some modification to fit a LHD car.

- UNCERTAIN: The harness needs to be lengthened with 30inch (Around 80cm)
- Some things needs to be modified, but exactly what? Is this possible to do myself, or can someone do this for me? <--- Interessted in help with this one

Please, if someone here knows, clarify this so we'll got the perfect recipe.


[#] Things to do when I'll get the engine
My plan is to shine the engine before I place it in my car. I will try to make sure it is in a 100% condition when placing it.

- Wash it
- Paint the valve cover and turbo heatshield
- Test the compression and leakage (maybe I need to change some valve seals, piston rings etc?)
- IF NEEDED: Change internal seals and gaskets, piston rings etc)
- IF NEEDED: Change the waterpump and timing belt/chain (I have heard that it is good to do)
- Take out the 3S-GTE transmission (transmission and gearbox is the same, right?)
- Change the clutch to fit the 3S-GTE -> 3S-GE combination.
- Place the 3S-GE transmission on the engine
- UNCERTAIN: Mount the axles in the new tranny. Make sure they will NEVER pop out (with spacers?)

If something is missing in this list, or doesnt belong here, please tell me!


[#] Things to do when swapping
When the day of the swap has come, I will do these things in this order:

From the cut:

1. Remove the ECU and harness
2. Drain the oil
3. Replace it with real stuff (Mobil1 10w40 or something)
4. Remove everything that is connected to the engine (hoses, wires, cables etc)
5. Unbolt the engine mounts
6. Remove the engine, and pull it out
7. Remove radiators, oil coolers
8. Remove boxes with fluid/liquids. (Power steering etc)
9. Remove MAF/MAP sensor (not sure of the name)
10. Any more?

Picture of 3s-gte engine bay(I'll ringed the boxes of fluids that I dont have in my bay originally):


From my car:

1. Remove the ECU and harness
2. Remove everything that is connected to the engine (hoses, wires, cables etc)
3. Unbolt the engine mounts
4. Remove the engine, and pull it out
5. Remove radiators or replace from the cut
6. Remove the engine mounts, and replace from the cut
7. Place boxes with fluid/liquids which my car does originally have like the cut. (Like the box right to the ABS box to the left in the engine bay)
8. Clean the engine bay/refresh with new paint
9. Remove the axles
10. Mount the engine mounts
11. Place the 3S-GTE in the engine bay
12. Connect with wire harness and ECU from 3S-GTE
13. Connect radiator hoses, plugs, etc
14. Connect the axles to the hubs from the transmission.
15. Make sure EVERYTHING is connected properly
16. Change the fuel pump into a 3S-GTE one.
17. Any more?

If something is missing in this list, or doesnt belong here, please tell me!


[#] Things to consider/make clear
- Make sure the axles from the 3S-GTE fits in the 3S-GE transmission and in the car without problems and does not affect the reliability of the car
- Will the exhaust system from the 7A-FE fit the 3S-GTE? I need som explanation here please.
- Will the new axles pop right into my original hubs?
- Do I need to swap the whole suspension and hubs too?
- Does the GT4 brakes fit my original hubs?
- More?


[#] Things that is done
- Get the swap legal (I am in the middle of this process)
-




[#] To you, fellows
As mentioned earlier in this thread, my plan about this thread in addition actually have a worklog of my swap, is to make a detailed guide of swapping the 7A-FE engine into 3S-GTE engine. With all the confusing problems with the axles, transmission, clutch, wire harness etc clearly explained.

I am known for orderly threads in bulletin boards in Norway, and I have made a lot of worklogs and guides. This is the time to make one internationally, and I hope I will be taken with open arms!

So please, help me out with making the exact recipe to do the swap. I have only one car, and cant risk to have it off the road a long time, so the swap must go really effectively when I start pulling the 7A-FE engine out of my car. If you have anything to tell me, make clear, correct the steps in this guide or anything, do not hesitate to tell me! I have only written the steps out of things that I have read, thought etc. So they are absolutely not perfect and complete yet. I have surely forgotten something too.

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 20, 2009 - 2:26 PM

[AnaXyd]

Useful threads:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825
http://www.geocities.com/zegoat2000/HOMEPAGE.html


This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 14, 2009 - 5:04 PM

[AnaXyd]

[#] Reserved

Explanation of the reservations:

If necessary, it will be more cleaner to have a small guide to the axles in separate posts. Therefore I reserved some, to be close to the first post.

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 14, 2009 - 5:04 PM

[AnaXyd]

[#] Reserved

[laff09]

U missed axles on your list. I dont want to post the wrong combo, but it still requires spacers... let me see if i can track down this info for you.

[AnaXyd]

Which list? The list of things to buy? Anyway, thanks for looking after the info. The axles is a really confusing thing...

I am not certain which transmission to use either. Is the 3S-GE good enough for 250hk? Or is the E-153 mr2 turbo tranny a better choice?

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 14, 2009 - 5:44 PM

[95st-celica]

another 3s-gte swap FTMFW!



Edit: rims are sex

This post has been edited by 95st-celica: Jun 14, 2009 - 6:23 PM

[AnaXyd]

Thank you 95st-celica! I like the rims really good myself!

Is rpm-garage a trusty shop to buy the clip from? Is there more trusty shops which ships internationally, and maybe cheaper/better?

[azian_advanced]

i don't think you'll find a better deal on a st205 halfcut than that one rpmgarage is selling ($1599). i've bought many things from him so yeah he's legit. btw 3sgte axles are different from 3sge axles. just use 3sge axles, tranny & shifter cables. try to get one with LSD if you can but they're hard to find (ie. beams tranny). otherwise, find an e-153 with LSD. since you're putting out so much power on 2 wheels the LSD will help you do better launches.

This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Jun 15, 2009 - 9:50 AM

[AnaXyd]

Okay, thanks for the information! The st205 is a 4th gen, or 3rd gen engine? Just to be sure.

Okay, so if I'll get the 3s-ge(GT) axles and transmission with LSD I have that complete? But the 7A-FE shifter cables will not fit the 3S-GE tranny right, so I need them too?

Is the LSD function rare? Do I have it in my 7A-FE transmission?

Do you guys have some shops which sells trannys, which ships internationally? (good quality, I dont want a bad tranny with only problems..)


Thanks guys, I will update the first post with the right information.

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 15, 2009 - 9:55 AM

[GriffGirl]

The LSD is not commonly found in Celicas; I believe the GT-Four is the only model that had it available as an option. (anyone correct me if I'm wrong).

You do NOT have LSD on your current transmission.

As for the replacement tranny, if you buy an entire clip, that should include the transmission for the 3S-GTE. (again, anyone correct me if I'm wrong).

[AnaXyd]

Okay, so LSD is not common.

Do you think that another transmission is coming with my clip, or did I get you wrong GriffGirl? The 3S-GTE transmission is coming with my clip, yes.


Another question:
The power steering things. Can I use the original setup from my car? Or do I have to swap this too? And do I need to swap the suspension to Superstrut too?

[azian_advanced]

celica beams motors came with either S54 or E56 tranny's. all E56 tranny's have LSD's. the S54 tranny's from SS-III celicas came with it stock but if it came from an SS-II, then it was optional.
e153's are easier to come across. if you've bought the halfcut from rpmgarage, make him an offer on his used JDM 98 Spec Rev 5 Gen 3 SW20 MR2 Turbo LSD Transmission Gear Box with 21k kms.

[BonzaiCelica]

hey AnaXyd, nice celica btw. You got the most powerful st celica 116hp. Good luck with the swap.

hey Azain Advanced, ive been looking at the 2 beams clips on rpm garage and beams motors come with s54 motors with helical lsd right? Where does the e56 tranny come from.

[AnaXyd]

celica beams motors came with either S54 or E56 tranny's. all E56 tranny's have LSD's. the S54 tranny's from SS-III celicas came with it stock but if it came from an SS-II, then it was optional.
e153's are easier to come across. if you've bought the halfcut from rpmgarage, make him an offer on his used JDM 98 Spec Rev 5 Gen 3 SW20 MR2 Turbo LSD Transmission Gear Box with 21k kms.

Thank you for great information.
Does the S54 or E56 tranny fit the 3S-GTE then?

And the tranny from the MR2, is this a e153, and "bolt on" to the 3S-GTE? If so, will these fit: linky

hey AnaXyd, nice celica btw. You got the most powerful st celica 116hp. Good luck with the swap.

hey Azain Advanced, ive been looking at the 2 beams clips on rpm garage and beams motors come with s54 motors with helical lsd right? Where does the e56 tranny come from.

Thank you! I really need it for the swap! This is a really heavy task for a 19 years old boy...


EDIT: Updated the first post with some new things like axles and transmission

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Jun 17, 2009 - 3:59 AM

[fran]

Nice ride Anaxyd´s! You must drop it down! for shure your celi will look so fkng hot dropped and with those rims! and the suspension will get good performance to your swap!.. I saw that engine bay too, pretty nice, but check again the rpmgaraje.com i saw yesterday a clip from a GT4 (White) that comes with all the parts you need to do the front end conversion & 4WD conversion too!.. Its just my opinion, for a few more $ you can get more to your celi!.. Good luck with your swap men!

[AnaXyd]

Thank you fran! I am planning a drop in the coming weeks. How much do you suggest to drop?

Yeah, I have seen the white one, and its really nice with all that parts. Maybe I'll take that one? 4WD is really tempting, too. But it looks like it is a LOT of work to do with it!

Thank you, I hope this car will get 3S-GTE'ed very soon!

[AnaXyd]

I checked the gt4 hood and stuff, and it looks like it is too much work for me in addition to the engine. By the way, can someone try to answer the uncertain things in the first post?

Its a lot of things that I need to be clarified... Thanks guys, you are really great!