Nitrous on a 5S Options

[lagos]

In the end you will spend the same amount of money. You can cheap out now but you will pay later. These are words to live by and apply to any car project.

[94celicadude]

In the end you will spend the same amount of money. You can cheap out now but you will pay later. These are words to live by and apply to any car project.

These are very good words to live by, i completely agree with you.

But when i get a complete nitrous kit for $180 (including purge) and I only need to buy a booster fuel pump ($250) and the window switch eventually ($250)...

after the engine rebuild that I would have to do regardless of turboing or spray, im pretty sure i couldnt part together a good reliable turbo kit for $700.

And thats counting on the fact that i have lots of available resources available... I know how to tig weld, and have a TIG welder as well, all the tools i would ever need then some, and an ample work space to do this entire project in the warmth of a shop.

While i may not achieve as great of numbers, and most definitely will not go nearly as fast in the 1/4... i do think that i will obtain a pretty quick 5S to scoot around town in... when i push the button.

As soon as I return from Spain, this is going to turn into my winter/spring project... so look for a build thread soon!

[lagos]

The point Im trying to make is that with the rebuild and the nitrous you will spend the same money as someone doing a 3sgte swap or a turbo kit. Why not just do it all the right way and have a reliable car?

The juice is not a reliable option. Sure you can setup it up and it will work a few times, but there have been more blown motors from that stuff then anything else. If it was so cheap and easy, none of us here would have invested the money into our swaps and turbo kits.

I mean, its your car, time and money, but Im just trying to give you some advice. There is no cheap lunch when it comes to cars.

[94celicadude]

I hear what you are saying, and I greatly appreciate the advice.

I guess I want to try something out of the box, may come back to bite me in the butt, but at least I can say I tried.

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Nov 13, 2009 - 11:00 AM

[lagos]

cool. good luck.

[95st-celica]

art, its not really cheaping out...i dont understand this negativity you have towards nitrous. of course a turbo is a better option, but lets be honest, turboing a 5s or pulling it out and doing a 3sgte swap is ALOT more money then throwing a nitrous kit on your car. From my understanding this guy isnt just going to go through a 200 shot on his car with 200k on it and go out spraying the hell out of it. In that case YEA its gonna blow. Thats common sense. But a motor built for nitrous will last.

If you look at it from this point of veiw, my uncle drives a 9 second camaro, with a 300 shot on it. he has hit that button so many times its redicilous. and hes gotten great results from it. Why? because when he built the motor, he built it for nitrous. coated pistons to absorb the heat, and many other things to strengthen the engine from detonation. Now im not sugesting to this guy to go that crazy with the build, because hes not putting a 300 shot on his car. but a 100 shot of nitrous, if tuned correctly, is actually just as reliable as a turbo. people blow motors because they are retarded. low oil, general maintaince not being performed, reving the engine out to 10k, things of that sort. if your responsable with it, understand how it works, and tune the car, i see no reason that any motor for that matter can not handle a small shot.

on another note, nitrous is not flammable. its is more or less a fuel addative to boost the octane, hence more fuel, higher octane, more power to the wheels.

For some reason not just you, but ALOT of people have this deception that nitrous is bad for a car, and O0o God, dont do that!! you'll blow you motor!! but in all reality, its a great, cheap (money perspective) way to increase power in your vehicle.

Lastly i would like to comment on the fact that ANYTHING being forced into your engine is going to have wear and tear on your motor, weather it be a turbo, nitrous, jet fuel, whatever the case may be. But with the proper tools and tuneing, there is no reason why anyone can not spray an engine and have it last 100,000 miles. i see people all the time with nitrous on their car and it has lasted a very long time. on the other hand i have seen people put kits on their car and blow it up the next day. Mainly because they just threw it on and took it out.

Art, sometimes you just make me want to put a 150 shot on the 3s to prove you wrong...but in my case, i probably WOULD blow my motor up.

its all in good love brother, dont take what i say to heart

[lagos]

LOL these NOS debates are as old as the internet.

[95st-celica]

LOL these NOS debates are as old as the internet.

your old as dirt!

Listen dude..i saw what you did with that 7A rebuild, nitrous will be a walk in the park

[freddy121389]

in the short run yes it is cheaper, but think about it this way, you have to refill nitrous meaning constant money over time that needs to be spent to have that extra power. A turbo doesn't run out of power it's always there. I've done calculations and in reality the nitrous is more expensive in the long run, in the short run yes you're right it is cheaper. Just my 2 cents.

[94celicadude]

LOL these NOS debates are as old as the internet.

your old as dirt!

Listen dude..i saw what you did with that 7A rebuild, nitrous will be a walk in the park

95st

I greatly appreciate your input in this matter in trying to explain my point of view on the nitrous thing.

And I also thank you for the support and compliments on the 7A build, that was my first motor (with the help and guidance of my father of course) and the 5S, will be all that and then some.

I hope to be able to create a reliable nitrous power 5S, and of course still be able to get a MINIMUM of 100K out of a Toyota motor

freddy

I do agree with what you are saying about the nitrous refill, but it also depends on how often, and how much nitrous you use.

This car is my daily driver and will remain to be even after the build, so yes i will spray every now and then, but i dont plan on having to refill my bottle more than once a month at most.

My friend that runs nitrous on all his cars has probably put around 100 to 200 bottles through his v6 mustang... and i would like to think Toyotas are more reliable than mustangs imo, so i think that i could probably get a pretty good run out of a 5S with spray.

[freddy121389]

any updates?

[94celicadude]

any updates?

Considering im studying abroad in Spain right now and I am 3000+ miles away from my car.... no lol

I was just trying to conduct some research about this before I dove with both feet into the project.

I probably wont be to start this until about March or something like that.

But ill make sure to keep you updated.

[freddy121389]

i may have mine done before u then lol

[94celicadude]

i may have mine done before u then lol

That would be awesome, Id really be interested in seeing what kind of results you get out of it.

Keep me updated.

[jeffrosie]

I had nitrous in my ST162 and used it as much as I could. Its addictive in the sence that when ever you see a chance for a traffic light burnout you arm the system. The ST162 is fitted witha rev1 3SGE putting out 148 brake. I fitted a 100 shot single injector kit and it was maddddd. On the first day I burnt out my brakes, after a while the clutch started to slip, then I blew the headgasket. So i fitted larger brakes from another Toyota, a performance clutch and a steel headgasket - abit modified from a ST205 and the car never gave problems again. It loved the 100 shot of nitrous just as much as me. Never had it on a dyno, so don't know what it made, but it was FAST.

[freddy121389]

damn a 100 shot huh, on stock internals or what?

[jeffrosie]

Yup, on a Rev1 3SGTE with the above stated mods

[94celicadude]

Sounds like you ended up with quite little rocket ship there. Now did you mean to post 3SGE on the reply or 3SGTE?... big diff on those motor... main one being the turbo lol

Well gives me hope that Toyota motors like the juice

[jeffrosie]

The ST162 is the 1st of the front wheel drive Celica's fitted with the 3SGE - non turbo
Used a wet kit on it taking the fuel from a tap on the cold start injector line.
Car has since been sold minus the nitrous and from what I last heard lives about 250 miles from me still going well.

[Dr_Tweak]

I've worked with nitrous a few times, personally I think it's a fun option. It's very important to buy the right kit and to make sure you take all of the precautions when running it.

MSD makes a great programmable window switch which I highly recommend. That combined with the usual safeties (full throttle switch, low pressure switch, etc) makes for a reliable option. Also you need to do your research as to the type of nitrous system to get. The best is direct port which injects exactly the same amount of nitrous AND fuel into each cylinder. Of course this is the most expensive but it's the most reliable and is what I would personally run.

The other type is the dry system which increases fuel pressure to compensate for the nitrous which is being spraying into the intake, this is the type you would normally run on an EFI engine. The downside is that the stock fuel injectors can only compensate so much, so you're limited on how much nitrous you can use. Someone wanting to go this route might want to look into some larger injectors and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to make sure there is plenty of fuel on tap.

You want to stay away from wet systems which spray both nitrous and fuel into the intake, the fuel will not flow evenly to all cylinders (because EFI engines have intake manifolds that are designed to flow air only and not fuel... they have different flow characteristics) which will often result in one lean cylinder. (The obvious exception to this is if you have a carburated engine, since those manifolds are designed to properly flow both fuel and air).

Finally, don't forget how nitrous works. Nitrous Oxide, N20, is 1/3rd oxygen, vs. the atmosphere which is 1/5th oxygen. The additional oxygen must be mixed with the appropriate amount of fuel in order to maintain a proper air/fuel mixture. In addition it increases power by it's cooling effect which increases air density. The gas itself is not flammable, nor does it "increase fuel octane".

Other precautions you should take include using 92 or 93 octane fuel at all times to prevent detonation, as well as using one step colder spark plugs so that they don't become a "hot spot" and cause pre-ignition.

One last word of advice. Depending on how often you fill the gas cylinder and how often you use it, and how much that costs (it's been a while since I checked), you may find yourself spending quite a bit every month keeping your car on the gas. I once saw someone do some calculations and figure out that after 1 year of using nitrous, he spent as much on it as he would have on a good-quality turbo system. In other words, up to 1 year it was cheaper to go with nitrous.... after the 1 year the turbo system would have paid for itself. Choose wisely.

-Doc