Car starts when it wants to! Help! Options

[Por2geezcelica]

Hey guys, need your help with this problem im having. Currently my car is starting when it wants. This is what is happening: I turn the key and all the lights on the dash will dim and the starter will click once or twice, but wont do anything after. Sometimes when i bring the key back the lights will stay dim as if theres not enough voltage coming from the battery, and other times when i bring the kay back the lights will light up normally. This happened yesterday. I changed out the battery today and it started up fine, then later on in the day it did the same thing with the new battery so it isnt the battery. I changed the starter a few months ago, but im thinking this may be a starter problem since i believe it was a refurbished starter. The only thing is that sometimes when i bring the key back and am not trying to start it, the lights will stay dim as if the battery is not delivering enough voltage. Could a bad starter cause the lights to dim when not trying to start it?

I have narrowed it down to either the starter, maybe a bad ground point, or maybe the battery cables or the connection to the battery cable terminals? Let me know what you guys think.

[SwissFerdi]

Alternator?

[Por2geezcelica]

Yea thats also at the top of my list. Im gonna remove it and take it to autozone and have them test it.

This post has been edited by Por2geezcelica: Nov 26, 2009 - 7:16 PM

[95CelicaST]

If the starter is clicking and the motor isn't turning over then you need to replace the starter.

I would also look into replacing the alternator, but if your battery isn't draining out I don't think its your problem.

[Por2geezcelica]

the weird thing is the fact that the starter motor will click, but the lights will also dim when i turn the key to the on position after trying to start it. If it was the starter, than the lights wouldnt dim right? Is it possible that the alternator is going so it is not supplying the starter with enough voltage to start so it clicks due to insufficient amount of volts? Which would also make sense for why the lights are dimming?

[Por2geezcelica]

Heres another thing that has been happening too that makes me think it the alternator. For the last several months i have noticed when i hit the brake, the interior and exterior lights dim slightly. In the last few weeks though, something else has happened 2 or 3 times where when i hit the brake the lights dim to the point where they almost turn off then come back on. What do you guys think, this confirms its the alternator?

[AMCMoe]

Is it possible that the alternator is going so it is not supplying the starter with enough voltage to start so it clicks due to insufficient amount of volts? Which would also make sense for why the lights are dimming?

The alternator is belt driven, so it only puts out power when the engine is running. When the engine is off, the power is being pulled from the battery.

For the last several months i have noticed when i hit the brake, the interior and exterior lights dim slightly. In the last few weeks though, something else has happened 2 or 3 times where when i hit the brake the lights dim to the point where they almost turn off then come back on. What do you guys think, this confirms its the alternator?

Sounds like a ground problem to me. However, if the alternator is putting out JUST enough to keep the battery minimally charged, then that could also be the reason why that happens.

You can take the car to Advance Auto or another parts store and they'll check the alternator for free. If the battery is all but dead the starter will click but won't turn...though the dash lights normally will also turn off, not just dim.

[Por2geezcelica]

True about the alternator not putting out any power when the motor is not on. Heres another thing, when this has happened, ill try and try and the starter will just click and the lights will be dim, then all of a sudden ill turn the key and it will start. All of a sudden it will have enough power to start.

[lagos]

Heres another thing that has been happening too that makes me think it the alternator. For the last several months i have noticed when i hit the brake, the interior and exterior lights dim slightly. In the last few weeks though, something else has happened 2 or 3 times where when i hit the brake the lights dim to the point where they almost turn off then come back on. What do you guys think, this confirms its the alternator?

Classic sign of a bad alternator.
When you buy your new one, tell them you have an automatic not a manual car. You'll get an 80amp alternator instead of the tiny 70 amp our car comes stock with.

[Tech-Nics]

I had the same problem with my car turned out the heat melted some of the wires going to the alternator and had the wires replaced and the problem went away. The plastic ends that connects to the alternator were pretty much melted and the wires became loose and started causing this problem. At least thats what happened to me. Figured it would be your problem since you are having the same symptoms. It can also be the starter too as they mentioned above cause i eventually had my starter replaced aswell after my car died on the road.

This post has been edited by Tech-Nics: Nov 26, 2009 - 10:04 PM

[lagos]

True about the alternator not putting out any power when the motor is not on. Heres another thing, when this has happened, ill try and try and the starter will just click and the lights will be dim, then all of a sudden ill turn the key and it will start. All of a sudden it will have enough power to start.

It might also be a good idea to inspect your battery terminals, as well as the power terminal that goes to the alternator and the one that goes to the starter. If anything looks corroded or old, it might need to be cleaned or replaced.

If you have a multimeter you can test your alternators output as well as any voltage drop that may occur from bad connections.

[95st-celica]

im gonna go with terminals on this one...or your conection somewhere...make sure they are on tight and not coroded as lagos had said...i get this with my car sometimes, and a quick pop of the hood and a twisting of the terminal on the battery cures it...im just to lazy to actually really tighten them

[Por2geezcelica]

terminals are connected well, but i did notice some slight corrosion on the positive cable terminal (white powder on top of the terminal connector). I didnt look at it too well because it was getting dark but i will take a look at it tomorrow. If there is corrosion where it meets the terminal it could very well be the cable terminal. Im leaning towards this since i will have a loss of power from the battery for a few minutes, than all of a sudden full power again. This corrosion could be causing a bad connection and this intermittent power loss. Could have even corroded the end of the cable which could explain this also.

This post has been edited by Por2geezcelica: Nov 26, 2009 - 11:14 PM

[CastrolCelica]

I was going to say, IT'S ALIIIIIIIVE... but yea, alternator works, too.....

[epocsirhc]

Just make sure that it isn't any of the wires/connections before you start throwing parts onto your car that aren't in need of replacement. Make sure you have good grounds to.

[Por2geezcelica]

Im gonna check the cables and terminals and see if theres any corrosion on the cables.

Where are all the crucial ground points located? And how do i tell if it is a bad ground? Do i have to unbolt the ground wire and just clean up both surfaces?

[GriffGirl]

Im gonna check the cables and terminals and see if theres any corrosion on the cables.

Where are all the crucial ground points located? And how do i tell if it is a bad ground? Do i have to unbolt the ground wire and just clean up both surfaces?

Wait, so did you get your alternator checked, or not? Because I have to say, I completely agree with Lagos, it's a classic sign of a bad alternator. That clicking sound isn't your starter failing. Pull the alt and get it tested. You can even get it tested w/out pulling the alt, just drive your car to Autozone and they can at least check to see if you have weird fluctuation in power flow. That's also a sign of a bad alt. So are your dimming headlights.

There are a few ground wires you can check while you're looking at your connections. There's one that runs from the neg battery terminal to the chassis, right on the frame where the hood closes (it's literally like 6" from the battery). There's one from the neg to the top of your transmission as well; one on the strut tower, facing the battery (might be hard to see if you have stock intake); and there's also one on the right side of the engine bay (left when you're facing it of course) that runs from the motor itself to the right strut tower. It's kind of below the fuel rail, around on the firewall side of the motor. You can't miss it, it's a skinny crappy one with a plastic connector that joins the motor-side wire to the chassis-side wire. I had alternator issues about this time last year, and I believe when my alternator went kablooey, it fried this particular wire, including completely melting the POS plastic connector. I replaced the whole thing with a battery connector cable from Wal Mart.

Keep in mind that if it is your alternator going, out, that the odds that your battery is going to completely die on you increase dramatically. As you drive the car on a bad alternator, you're driving WAY more on battery power, and draining the battery. You should fully expect to replace your battery, probably within a week of replacing your alternator.

[Davinci]

You are dying from voltage drop.

clean all grounds for engine, body, chassis, and every single ground for the lighting circuit.
If your alternator fails inspection get a new one from the dealer, if yours is a stock part take it to a repair facility that fixes alternators. and make certain to specify that you want your alternator back if they give you an option.

If you dont go with factory parts i understand that buying from the stealership is hard to do so i wont lecture.

when you replace the alternator YOU MUST BE CERTAIN THAT THE BATTERY IS AT A FULL STATE OF CHARGE. if it is not fully charged the alternator will suffer an early death from being overworked

Have the parts store charge your battery overnight and use their loaner battery. while they do.