Carbon Fiber weight reductions, is it worth it? Options

[95st-celica]

hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.

removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.

please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological

you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.

my weight savings > you

all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things

clearly i understand your argument and agree 100% with reducing weight=better times ESPICALLY on an auto cross track...but what im trying to say is how many people on this forum are going to completely gut there interior like you have??? not many...most are looking for a "quick and easy way out" such as replacing both the hood and hatch with CF ones....which is a great idea and again it does lower the center of gravity...im not arguing with you about that at all....what im saying is that by removing your sunroof and throwing a CF hood on your car is not going to drastically improve your times....yes it may cut lap times down a few tenths but all that for what? when you could do simple mods to your motor to get more out of it....

[playr158]

you can always do something else to get that time. weight reductions are normally pretty easy. Some states don't allow for motor changes, as well as motor modifications can move you out of a class you are competative at and into a class you have no chance. Not to mention more motor doesn't help with handling.

Hoods are more commonly done for aesthetics as well, and not necissarily function as 1% of this site actually races.

Celicas respond in my experience much much better to improvements in handling/weight than to power since the strong point of the celica is handling and not power. and a few tenths can mean the difference between winning and loosing.....I'd take that.

Its cars there is always an alternative to one modification over another. personal preferance is what makes the difference.

This post has been edited by playr158: Jan 15, 2008 - 1:27 PM

[dabazied]

Custom CF doors would be crazy high priced..... I'm sure we could get some people together to try to get a company to start making them, yet don't know if we'd have enough people willing to bust out the money for them.

[jason]

my car has cf doors, fenders, hood, trunk, roof, and rear 1/4 pannels

reduced vehicle weight by 370~ lbs

best mod to the car, seems like it has 100 more hp and handles amazing


-carbon fiber hood is a good idea to save weight, for the purpose of less fuel consumption... over a year if your fuel costs are $2000 for the year, you may save $10 soooo $300+ for the hood would take you like 30 years to actually "save"

-carbon fiber hatch, again a good idea for weight reducion, using lexon or any type of non rigid consistancy will expand & contract. rsx's usually put in cf hatch's and since windows are similar in size to a 6gc i presume you would have similar issues, the plastic n whatnot that gets used as a light weight window either expands n warps the hatch, or contracts and causes other issues.

stop n think before you flame for the first bit

[BonzaiCelica]

Weight Reduction Modifications

• Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds

• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk 18 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel 4 Pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat 10 pounds less over stock
• Liftback Trunk Cover 6 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack 35 pounds
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion)36 pounds
• AGM 17 lb Battery 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35lbs for USA Market)
• Cruise Control, Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna 5 pounds
• Door Panels 12 pounds
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) 12 pounds
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter 2 pounds lighter
• LS430 Big Brake kit upgrade (66 lbs) vs Stock SS-III Front brakes (55 lbs) weighs heavier 11 pounds heavier

• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon): 11 pounds less or Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less or Wet Carbon Fiber Hood: 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• 3SGE Stock Exhaust Header n B-Pipe = 32lbs, Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE = 20lbs (12lbs lighter)+ Test Pipe (4lbs lighter) + Kakimoto R Exhaust (7lbs lighter) = 22 pounds less
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less


For a weekend/track set up vehicle which amounts to 272 pounds.


REMOVING THE A/C SYSTEM AMOUNTS TO 45 LBS + All headlights and fog lights. Replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds. Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound savings. These parts are not included in overall total!!!

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 21, 2024 - 4:40 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.

removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.

please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological

you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.

my weight savings > you

all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things

clearly i understand your argument and agree 100% with reducing weight=better times ESPICALLY on an auto cross track...but what im trying to say is how many people on this forum are going to completely gut there interior like you have??? not many...most are looking for a "quick and easy way out" such as replacing both the hood and hatch with CF ones....which is a great idea and again it does lower the center of gravity...im not arguing with you about that at all....what im saying is that by removing your sunroof and throwing a CF hood on your car is not going to drastically improve your times....yes it may cut lap times down a few tenths but all that for what? when you could do simple mods to your motor to get more out of it....

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

[jimmykay]

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

ok, first of all, you can't remove the spare tire if its already been removed. its a given that anyone running track or autox will already have their spare removed and other similar easy to remove items. when you are talking about swapping out CF parts you should be past the point of diminishing returns, so you're spending a lot to save a little.

Also, in general, more power is always better in track racing. a corvette doesnt need to drive at the limit to compare to an elise or exige. sure, the lotus' handle quite well, but given a capable driver, the corvette should win on any track that isn't designed for a go-cart. and just because you have an extra 300 hp on a lotus doesnt mean that you need to use it all.

[BonzaiCelica]

how about some plastic molded headlights?

and a denso leightweight alternator??? or one of these http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/alt.html#

as I was also looking as to how they make carbon fiber hoods

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 21, 2017 - 5:41 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

ok, first of all, you can't remove the spare tire if its already been removed. its a given that anyone running track or autox will already have their spare removed and other similar easy to remove items. when you are talking about swapping out CF parts you should be past the point of diminishing returns, so you're spending a lot to save a little.

Also, in general, more power is always better in track racing. a corvette doesnt need to drive at the limit to compare to an elise or exige. sure, the lotus' handle quite well, but given a capable driver, the corvette should win on any track that isn't designed for a go-cart. and just because you have an extra 300 hp on a lotus doesnt mean that you need to use it all.

First I was using the spare as an example.
Second I never said anything about using CF.
and for the whole racing thing i will use my celica compared to my mr2. In autox my I will have faster times with my celi then I do with the mr2, and the mr2 has more power an is faster in a straight.

[jimmykay]

sorry, the CF I guess came from the thread title. But I was basicly saying that after you remove the cheap stuff, your costs start going up exponentially to save weight.

for autox your mr2 is either E or C class
your celica is probably G class. so after the PAX, yes, its very possible that your celica is faster. But with raw times, you should be quicker with your mr2.

[playr158]

jimmy lol. corvette should always win over a lotus hahaha.

bonzai ftw i never knew they made a light weight alternator....that is awesome I want one.

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 12, 2010 - 2:03 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

sorry, the CF I guess came from the thread title. But I was basicly saying that after you remove the cheap stuff, your costs start going up exponentially to save weight.

Oh no doubt, I was saying in the beginning stages of weight reduction compared to engine mod.s or in layman's terms doing free stuff is better then spending money which I think everyone can agree on lol.

[BonzaiCelica]

jimmy lol. corvette should always win over a lotus hahaha.

bonzai ftw i never knew they made a light weight alternator....that is awesome I want one.

which one would be buy. which one is made for our car? i wonder how much weight it would save?

[playr158]

I'm not sure which one would work, I haven't seen a celica alt. in a very long time.
a LTW alternator is some thing you would probably want to look into when you're completely running out of options to cut weight

[BonzaiCelica]

ya I know. But a carbon fiber hood with white rims wouldnt look that good on a red celica would it?

[95st-celica]

it would if you went with a C/F hatch and painted the roof black....or layed C/F over it like i plan too....or just spray the C/F hood red...

[yellowchinaman]

Our builds do drink alot. The most eetive way to increase performance on power to weight ratio is to lose weight.
That's why we oer carbon hoods and carbon kits. Very soon in a few months time we'll introduce a carbon trunk lid aiming to weigh around hal o the OEM lid.
Depending what you want, you gotta balance out the cost to what what you want to gain.
Where as we want to keep alot of basics like ICE, and air con and rear seats, we do gut out alot of crap which is not needed in the GT-Fours.

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Feb 16, 2010 - 2:40 PM

[playr158]

Someone needs to produce a lexan or plexiglass rear window. I can make rear sides for my own car but the rear is too complex and big for me.
that would reduce weight :eeps:

[BonzaiCelica]

Someone needs to produce a lexan or plexiglass rear window. I can make rear sides for my own car but the rear is too complex and big for me.
that would reduce weight :eeps:

true that. plexiglass is resistant to scratches, and lexan is more durable than plexiglass right?

I'm not a huge Integra type r fan. But Im fond of how honda made their Civics and integra's such lightweight cars. The JDM integra 96 spec which has no airbags ABS, Audio System and No air conditioning weighs 2,337 pounds. And the 98 Spec Integra type R weighs 2,425 pounds, and has a plexi glass rear window, something like a 10% thinner front windshield, standard lightweight abs and airbags come equipped. But the USDM has Type R weighs in at 2,600 pounds. 175 pound weight difference between both JDM and USDM teg's is a lot. the fact that type r comes with 1.8 ltre all aluminum engine also contributes to its lightness...

I was also looking at import tuner or honda tuner and they had a stock integra gs-r that weighed in a 2635 or something, and after making the car as lightweight as possible while still able to drive on the streets, had lost 625 pounds!!! that's incredible.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 15, 2018 - 3:53 AM

[SwissFerdi]

true that. plexiglass is resistant to scratches, and lexan is more durable than plexiglass right?

I'm not a huge Integra type r fan. But Im fond of how honda made their Civics and integra's such leightweight cars. The JDM integra 96 spec which has no airbags and abs, and possibly no air conditiong but not sure, weighs 2,337 pounds. And the 98 Spec Integra type R weighs 2,425 pounds, and has a plexi glass rear window, something like a 10% thinner front windshield, standard leightweight abs and airbags come equipped. But the USDM has Type R weighs in at 2,600 pounds. 175 pound weight difference between both JDM and USDM teg's is a lot. the fact that type r comes with 1.8 ltre also contributes to its lightness...

I was also looking at import tuner or honda tuner and they had a stock integra gs that weighed in a 2635 or something, and after making the car as leightweight as possible while still able to drive on the streets, had lost 625 pounds!!! that's incredible.

My ST has airbags, AC, etc...and weighs in at around 2450. I thought the Tegs were a lot lighter than that, now I'm not so impressed anymore.