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> Feasible and Non-Feasible Engine Swaps, What works, what doesn't, alternatives
post Feb 18, 2003 - 1:50 AM
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Coomer



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Celica Engine Swaps
The sixth generation Celica has various options for engine swaps. All of the feasible engine swaps that can be done to a sixth generation Celica are listed on this page. First, I'll start out with a couple of engines that people always ask about that cannot be swapped into a Celica easily.

Non-Feasible Swaps
1. 2JZ-GTE - This is the engine that resides in the '93-'98 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo. There is absolutely no way that this engine can be swapped into a sixth generation Celica easily or cheaply or legally, plus, the 3S-GTE swap(keep reading...it's down below) is so much better. For more on this, please read Charlie's excellent post below.

2. 2ZZ-GE - This is the engine that resides in the seventh generation Toyota Celica, Toyota Matrix, and the Pontiac Vibe. This engine swap is not feasible for many reasons. One reason is that you would need to change your motor mounts, change your transmission, and you would need to modify lots of other things that wouldn't need to be modified with other swaps. Another reason is that this engine is expensive. It's a pretty new engine, and chances are that you won't be able to find one in good condition in a junkyard, and if you do, it will cost you a lot of money(Much more than any of the feasible swaps listed below.) One more reason that this engine swap would not be reasonable to do is that this engine is not very powerful. Sure, it has 180 horsepower at the crank, but it really lacks low end torque. Why not just save thousands of dollars and swap in an engine that has more horsepower and more torque?

Feasible Swaps
1. 3S-GTE - This is one of the best engines ever made, and guess what? It drops right in to your Celica, assuming you have a ST202, ST203, or ST204(Which is the USDM GT.) Even if you have a ST(Chassis code AT200), you can still swap this engine into your car. It will just take a bit more work, because you'll need to change motor mounts and your transmission, and a few other things. Why is this engine swap so great? First off, this is the engine used in all of the Celica GT-Fours and All-Tracs; It's made to fit into a Celica! It's also readily available, and often, you can find a ST185(fifth generation Celica All-Trac/GT-Four) front clip(Which is the front half of the car - includes engine, ecu, tranny, accessories, etc.) for around $1,500! The greatest quality about this engine is its power. From the factory, this 2.0 liter, turbocharged engine produces anywhere from 190(USDM ST165 fourth generation Celica) to 254 horsepower(JDM ST246 Toyota Caldina), depending on the generation of the engine. Because of the tuborcharger, this engine has great low-end torque as well, and has a huge power potential. In nearly every Supra that has been built by a tuning company for racing purposes, the powerful 2JZ-GTE engine has been scrapped in favor of a 3S-GTE, due to it's lightness, huge power potential, and it's durability. If you're going to do a swap and you're able to(And willing to do a little more work than other swaps if you've got a ST), this is the engine to swap in to your Celica. Period. This engine will bolt up to any Celica that has a S-series manual transaxle.
user posted image

Due to request, below are the horsepower figures for some of the 3S-GTE engines:
1st Generation - 190 HP(USDM '87-'89 Celica All-Trac), 187 HP(JDM '87-'89 Celica GT-Four)
2nd Generation - 200 HP(USDM '90-'93 Celica All-Trac, USDM '91-'95 MR2 Turbo), 221 HP(JDM '90-'93 Celica GT-Four, JDM '89-'94 MR2 Turbo), 231 HP(JDM '90-'93 Celica GT-Four RC)
3rd Generation - 239 HP(Non-JDM '94-'99 Celica GT-Four), 241 HP(JDM '95-'99 MR2 Turbo), 251 HP(JDM '94-'98 Celica GT-Four)
4th Generation - 254 HP(JDM ST246 Toyota Caldina GT-Four)

2. 3S-GE - This engine is another engine that comes standard in many Celicas, including the sixth generation Celica ST202 and ST203(Which, sadly, aren't available in the US.) It's the same 2.0 liter block as the 3S-GTE, but rather than being turbocharged, this engine is naturally aspirated, resulting in less power and less torque. This engine is an option for people who have a Celica and want to do a swap, but they don't want or are not allowed to have a turbocharged car. Even without the turbocharger, this engine is still powerful though. It puts out 177 horsepower and 142 lbs. ft. of torque in the earlier models, and the later models have BEAMS VVT-i(Identified by red valve covers and intake manifolds), resulting in 197 horsepower and 152 lb. ft. of torque. Some people may think that they can swap this engine into their car and later turbocharge it, but this is not a great idea. The internal components on this engine and the 3S-GTE are drastically different, so to make this engine turbo-ready, it would require the use of internal engine parts to strengthen the engine. If you want a turbocharged engine, it'd be much, much easier and cost-effective to simply drop in a 3S-GTE in the first place. This engine will bolt up to any transmission that comes on a ST202, ST203, ST204, or ST205 with no problems, though the stock tranny may not be up to the task of handling high horsepower levels if you have a USDM GT(ST204) for example.
user posted image

3. 4A-GZE - This supercharged, 1.6 liter engine, is used in some first generation Toyota MR2s(Chassis code AW11), and is also used in the AE92('88-'91) and AE101('92-'95) JDM Toyota Corollas. In the oldest versions of the AE92('88 and '89), and the AW11, this engine only produces 145 horsepower. However, in the later versions of the AE92('90 and '91), this engine produces 162 horsepower, and in the AE101 form, this engine produces 167 horsepower. This engine has excellent low end torque, and is generally recommended over the 20 valve 4A-GE for street driving because of this. This engine will swap directly into any Celica with a 7A-FE(USDM ST) because both engines are A-series engines. This engine will bolt right up to your stock USDM ST(AT200) transmission, though the stock tranny may not be able to handle the 4A-GZE's boost very well. It's advised that you simply use the tranny that comes with the 4A-GZE engine.
user posted image

*This swap currently in progress by Mynzeyes (John). This will be editted accordingly as to problems/situations show fit. At this time, do this swap at your own risk, as it is NOT a direct bolt up if you use the transmission that comes in the GZE clip (if that's the route you go. smile.gif *


4. 4A-GE(20 valve) - This 20 valve(Five valves per cylinder), 1.6 liter engine is naturally-aspirated, and is found in some JDM Toyota Corollas. It comes in two versions, the first of which is the "Silver Top" version and is found in the AE101 Toyota Corolla, produced from 1992 to 1995. This version is much easier to find, and is identified by a silver valve cover. It is an older engine than the silver top, and is rated to have five less horsepower. Unfortunately, this version of the engine is over-rated, and it's estimated that this engine produces about 10-20 horsepower less than advertised by Toyota. The "Black Top" version of this engine, however, is not over-rated, and it produces right around 165 horsepower at the crank. This version of the engine is identified by a black valve cover, and this version can be found in the AE111 Toyota Corolla. Both engines have advanced and unique features, such as five valves per cylinder(Compared to the traditional four), and four individual throttle bodies(One per cylinder). With only 117 rated lb. ft. of torque, both engines lack the low end torque that the turbocharged and supercharged engines have, and these engines produce most of their power up high in the powerband through the use of variable valve timing(VVT) and the G-series head. Because of this, the 4A-GE is generally used more for race applications due to it's narrow powerband, and the 4A-GZE is generally recommended for street driving, due to its torque that is spread out throughout the entire powerband. This engine will swap directly into any Celica with a 7A-FE(USDM ST) because both engines are A-series engines. This engine will bolt right up to your stock USDM ST(AT200) transmission.
user posted image

Other Solutions
If you don't wish to swap an engine into your car or are unable to(due to lack of a garage, mean parents, etc.), there are other solutions for you that can help your car go faster.

1. Turboing the 7A-FE or 5S-FE - A few people have turbocharged the 7A-FE(stock engine in the USDM ST) and the 5S-FE(stock engine in the USDM GT), and most have had good results. Burien Toyota makes a kit for the 5S-FE that allows you to run up to 7 psi of boost reliably, and JGS Tools offers many of the parts needed to turbo your 7A-FE and allow you to run around 7 psi of boost, with more information and links to where to get the necessary remaining parts.

2. Turning the 7A-FE into a 7A-GE - The idea of taking the head off of a 4A-GE engine and bolting it to the block of a 7A-FE engine to get more power has been discussed many times, and the conclusion is that it's quite a bit of work to build a hybrid 7A-GE, but it can be done. It involves taking the head off of an older 4A-GE(The blue or red top will be much easier than the 20 valve black top or silver top.) and bolting it to the 7A-FE block, configuring the timing belt(The 4A-GE or 7A-FE belts don't work.), changing or modifying the ecu and wiring(Because the 7A-FE's rev limiter limits power up high and may not work optimally with the 4A-GE intake manifold and injectors), and a few more things. Also, this conversion will not yield a whole lot more torque than the stock 7A-FE. Torque figures will be about the same as stock, though horsepower will increase a bit because of the G series head and higher redline. Club 4AG has lots of information about building a 7A-GE and has comments from people who have done this.

Where to Find Engines / Clips

Below are some companies that you can call to order an engine or front clip or rear clip to do an engine swap. I would call all of these companies, as they don't do much business(if any at all) through email.

Jarco
ToySport
Technical Power Automotive
UsedEngines.com
Venus Auto

Additionally, there are dozens of other engine importers. Searching on Google, this site, or other car websites may yield good results...just do your research before you buy.

I think that's all for now.
Have more info that's not here? PM a mod and we'll edit this post.
post Aug 19, 2005 - 1:22 PM
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Charlie97L

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Why The 2JZ-GTE Isn't Feasible


At the behest of Coomer, and myself, I'm writing this sticky so hopefully people will stop asking about this swap. Please read all of this, and if it doesn't answer your questions about this issue, PM me, please don't post on the board, you'll just get flamed, most likely by me. If you read it all and still have questions, PM, don't post!

The question asked: Can I swap a 2JZ-GTE engine (from a 93-98 Supra Twin Turbo) into my 6th Generation Celica?

The answer: Yes, but that's not a good question.

The question that SHOULD be asked instead: Can I swap a 2JZ-GTE engine (from a 93-98 Supra Twin Turbo) into my 6th Generation Celica and STILL KEEP it a Celica.

The answer to this better question: No.

The first question addressed to all of you who take the "with enough money, anything is possible" stance, which is a legitimate one. Yes, you could cut through the firewall, yes you could convert the Celica to rear-wheel-drive, yes, you could do the swap. This is a valid point, but I shudder to guess at how much all this would cost.

Practically speaking, you'd have to buy a complete Twin Turbo Supra to source all the parts you might need (engine, drive-train, and suspension), and if you did that, why not just drive it? You're going to tear apart an amazing car to put the engine in your Celica? What?!!?

Ok, now to address the specifics of why you CAN'T reasonably do this swap:

1) 2JZ-GTE engines are not cheap. You think it's a lot to pay $3,000 for a 3S-GTE clip? A Supra clip will set you back anywhere from $6,000-$10,000. And that's just for the engine. You still have all of the massive custom work, and you need all of the Supra suspension and drive-train, so essentially you need the whole car. If you have 10 grand laying around to put into your Celica, call me, and I will build you the baddest one in the country. There are better ways to spend that money on a 6th Gen Celica.

2) The 2JZ-GTE is an Inline 6 Cylinder engine, mounted longitudinally. The 5S-FE and 7A-FE engines are both 4 cylinders, mounted transversely.

The best way to understand this: open your hood; see how the engine is oriented where the long sides are parallel to the bumper, essentially sideways? The Supra engine is mounted so the long sides are parallel to the fenders. Most rear-wheel-drive sports cars, like the Supra, have their engine mounted longitudinally, whereas front-wheel-drive cars, like the Celica, usually are transverse. This immediately poses the problem of mounting the engine. The Celica engine bay was not meant to ever have a longitudinally mounted engine in it.

3) The 2JZ-GTE is an Inline 6 Cylinder engine. The 7A-FE and 5S-FE are 4 cylinders.

The Supra engine is a LOT bigger that the Celica engines, it is a lot longer. Even if you could overcome the mounting issue (#2) you have the size difference. In order to fit the 2JZ in the Celica bay, you would have to do one of 2 things:

A) Extend the bumper and frame forward about a foot with custom body work, but at the same time destroying the head-on collision safeguards, and also destroying the structural integrity of the Celica frame. Did I mention that this makes the car illegal to drive on the street?
B) Cut into the firewall (the wall between you in the interior and the engine bay), to extend the engine bay to the rear, thus destroying any protection you have against a possible fire (it is called a FIREwall) and again, making the car illegal to drive on the street for a lot of reasons.

At this point I feel I should explain what I mean by "illegal" in the above situations. I'm not talking about emissions/smog, or CARB, or parts meant for "off-road use only." We all know you can get around most of that. I'm talking about "illegal" like the authorities take away the car and don't give it back. You cannot get a car with a cut firewall legally titled in ANY state, no matter who you know, the same for a car with the crash-test safeguards removed. They aren't legally considered cars at this point, just scrap.

4) If those weren't enough to deter you, you still have to convert the Celica to rear-wheel-drive. This is possible, but it will cost a lot of money, and isn't really relevant by this point. If you have come this far successfully, you've paid for at least 2 complete Supra TTs, minimum, probably closer to 3. There are other points I could go into, but by this point, if you aren't insane and Bill Gates, you're out. If not, buy me a Supra! Obviously you have more money than God.

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