Super Celica ST, 3sgte Options

[celicaboy04]

I know this question has been asked a lot I am sure...and before any of you that like to get on topics and say "look in the search feature" I already have.

I have browsed through something like 20 topics and got a pretty good idea of what I need.

Currently I have an ST Coupe that is reaching 150,000 miles. I have thought about getting another 7AFE (currently what I have) and putting a turbo system on it, although the HP gains are not nearly as much nor is the engine as powerful as a 3sgte.

I have a 1995 model, and this is where it gets tricky, I live in good ol California. So with the emissions laws, I can only put in an engine the same year or newer. From what I have been able to learn through the old posts on this topic, there is a late model 3sgte MR2 engine that should be feasible to swap into my car legally. And again with all the smogging regulations, I would then have to have the engine tested at a smog facility and have it barcoded when approved, that way when taken to smog centers in the future, though it wont pass visual inspection they shoot the barcode with a laser and see the engine is approved. Something like that anyways.

Anywho, I am wondering more information as to what the specs are for this 95 3sgte is, whether or not for certain if it should work for california, and where I would best have a chance to find this engine.

I read in an old post about EL Prototypes being a good place in California to have the swap done. I live in San Francisco area, and would be willing to drive to Azusa, unless any of you are aware of a shop that would be closer.

Anyways, just looking for some adivce guys, have read the old posts, now I need help for my specific situation.

Thank you, and any negative comments about looking in search even though I already have will be kicked in the A$$ and shoved down the posters throat

[CheesyLobster]

From what I have been able to learn through the old posts on this topic, there is a late model 3sgte MR2 engine that should be feasible to swap into my car legally.  [right][snapback]263068[/snapback][/right]

In CA, its illegal to have any model engine in the car other than what the car came with, period.

There is a USDM 3sgte that does have the egr valve and would pass that aspect of visual if the guy doesnt know what the engine is supposed to be in that car. He would probably notice the turbo still though... And any car that didn'y come with a turbo in CA can't have one according to the law. Concidering that you can get past this part of the inspection, you will probably pass the emissions test.

So, really, the only way to do in in CA is to have connections, sorry.

[celicaboy04]

According to the California Air Resources Board, engine swaps ARE legal. And as quoted from the official CARB site "same year or newer." Though what they do not entail is whether or not a turbo would have any affect of it being inspected at what they refer to as the smog referee station. I imagine though that if the engine is USDM legal, and I do not do any extra modifications to the engine before the trip to the referee station, it should be alright.

[celicaboy04]

And just to add to that, I am sure EL Prototypes which apparently has done a few 3sgte swaps probably has some more info on the legality aspects of it. And if worse comes to worse, knows some people that knows some people.

LOL

[easternpiro1]

hey celica boy, is your st an automatic? I have a 94 st and i was thinking about getting a loan for the work instead of getting a new car. Is it true you have to change the tranny to a manual for the swap to be successful in teh long run?

[sphinx]

From what I have been able to learn through the old posts on this topic, there is a late model 3sgte MR2 engine that should be feasible to swap into my car legally.  [right][snapback]263068[/snapback][/right]

In CA, its illegal to have any model engine in the car other than what the car came with, period.

There is a USDM 3sgte that does have the egr valve and would pass that aspect of visual if the guy doesnt know what the engine is supposed to be in that car. He would probably notice the turbo still though... And any car that didn'y come with a turbo in CA can't have one according to the law. Concidering that you can get past this part of the inspection, you will probably pass the emissions test.

So, really, the only way to do in in CA is to have connections, sorry.
[right][snapback]263079[/snapback][/right]

Sorry dude, you're the one that's wrong. You CAN do the swap legally, and just like celicaboy said, the engine has to have come from a MR2 of the same year, or newer. Since he has a '95, he can still do it, but it's going to be REAL difficult finding that engine here in the states. Good luck, either way.

[orvillescelica]

someone please correct me if i am wrong, but i remember reading that something bad happened with EL Prototypes and Kuya. Something about bad relations and business with people wanting their wire harnesses done by them.

easternpiro1... as i am aware, the st transmission, auto or manual, will not bolt onto the 3sgte. Most people use the transmission from their existing 5sfe GT, the camry 5sfe trans, or one from a 3sge. Also, i think it is 'possible' to use the auto trans with a 3sgte swap, but there is a quesiton of wiring as well as... why would you??

[tomazws]

I really wanna move out of California... better yet, move out of the states so I could get myself a stock GT-4 or something...

[celicaboy04]

Lol yeah I hear you....Yeah I dont know much about the tranny, I am sure you COULD use an auto tranny but definately not your stock tranny. So if you would have to change the tranny anyways, I would just go manual but thats me. Some say autos are better for turbo engines anyways because of shifting time or something like that...Though me myself I LIKE THE POWER IN MY HANDS! LOL

And Piro, youre right...I SHOULD be able to find a 1995 MR2 Engine but youre right again about it going to be difficult, cause now my search for a 3sgte engine is so limited it is going to take much longer.

I plan on doing the same thing tomaz, as far as taking out a loan to do the swap. I dont see the point in spending 14k on a new car when my old car is just fine, just needs a new engine.

Not sure about EL Prototypes rep being bad, I saw on some olds posts by Coomer and such that they had a good rep but things may have changed since then...

This post has been edited by celicaboy04: Mar 28, 2005 - 2:19 PM

[Drocay]

someone please correct me if i am wrong, but i remember reading that something bad happened with EL Prototypes and Kuya. Something about bad relations and business with people wanting their wire harnesses done by them.

easternpiro1... as i am aware, the st transmission, auto or manual, will not bolt onto the 3sgte. Most people use the transmission from their existing 5sfe GT, the camry 5sfe trans, or one from a 3sge. Also, i think it is 'possible' to use the auto trans with a 3sgte swap, but there is a quesiton of wiring as well as... why would you??
[right][snapback]263226[/snapback][/right]

If i'm not mistaken the only prob Kuya had was it took way to long for his car to get done, and one reason was he had a st205 and wiring was difficult. O and on the auto tranny if i'm not mistaken on of the Russian members was running an auto 3sgte i think main thing needed is standalone.

[lagos]

i dont think your car will be "legal" after the swap. having said that, there are a few swap owners in cali and say that you will pass emissions if you go to the right shop and tip them.

if you dont want to deal with all of that, then i would recomend selling the car and getting a 5th gen alltrac or an mr2. that way you will have a legal car. you can get a nice alltrac for the same money a shop would charge you for parts and laybor.

[easternpiro1]

easternpiro1... as i am aware, the st transmission, auto or manual, will not bolt onto the 3sgte. Most people use the transmission from their existing 5sfe GT, the camry 5sfe trans, or one from a 3sge. Also, i think it is 'possible' to use the auto trans with a 3sgte swap, but there is a quesiton of wiring as well as... why would you??
[right][snapback]263226[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
oh okay, someone was telling me I would have to convert my automatic into a manual. but my cousin has an automatic camry v6 (the tranny would need modding) I would want an auto because i barely can drive manual, had to teach myself, and that was a while ago. and i dont know anyone who has a junk car they can let me practice on. there is a sticky on step by step how to swap a 3sgte into an st, but he never said if his st was already an automatic.
im so discouraged....maybe i should just get a civic like every other arrogant schmuck here in charlotte.

[celicaboy04]

Well after looking over this post, and ALL the old ones, I am starting to think that turboing the 7AFE would be the wisest choice.

I have been browsing the internet and I found a turbokit from Turbo-Kits.com made by TSI. It is $2800, a little spendy for a kit, but maybe thats the going rate these days? I am not really mechanically inclined so I would have no idea what all the parts I would need and whats best to push the HP gains on the beast as much as possible. And apparently the kit from TSI is CARB approved. Anyone heard about this kits output, and would it be better for me to just piece together the necessary parts myself? If so, I would need a lot of help picking out the right equipment...

[CheesyLobster]

From what I have been able to learn through the old posts on this topic, there is a late model 3sgte MR2 engine that should be feasible to swap into my car legally.  [right][snapback]263068[/snapback][/right]

In CA, its illegal to have any model engine in the car other than what the car came with, period.

There is a USDM 3sgte that does have the egr valve and would pass that aspect of visual if the guy doesnt know what the engine is supposed to be in that car. He would probably notice the turbo still though... And any car that didn'y come with a turbo in CA can't have one according to the law. Concidering that you can get past this part of the inspection, you will probably pass the emissions test.

So, really, the only way to do in in CA is to have connections, sorry.
[right][snapback]263079[/snapback][/right]

Sorry dude, you're the one that's wrong. You CAN do the swap legally, and just like celicaboy said, the engine has to have come from a MR2 of the same year, or newer. Since he has a '95, he can still do it, but it's going to be REAL difficult finding that engine here in the states. Good luck, either way.
[right][snapback]263191[/snapback][/right]

The same year engine or newer that came in that car. The 6th gen Celica was never produced in the US with a 3sgte, so I don't think its legal.

[soltrain]

if you found a 95 MR2 engine I'm pretty sure it'd be legal, but I looked it up before, I think only 80 some of those were made in the US.

[blu94gt]

if you found a 95 MR2 engine I'm pretty sure it'd be legal, but I looked it up before, I think only 80 some of those were made in the US.
[right][snapback]263388[/snapback][/right]

If I remember correctly, in 1995 there were exactly 895 MR2's total sold in the United States. I'm not sure how many were turbos, but I'm guessing probably 300-400. If you can find an engine that would even be worth looking at, I'm sure it's going to be EXPENSIVE. That is if you can find it. My guess is the car itself would go for about $12,000 if it has under 100,000 miles. And I would suggest just keeping the MR2 if you could even find a 95 turbo.

[Green_MachToy]

I don't normally chat too much on here as my knowledge is limited, but I do have some experience in this topic. Well here's my two cents. I started this route and eventually found another means for my 94 ST. I called the Board and what they told me was that if you replaced the engine into the car it was fine as long as it was the same year or newer AND that it came stock in similar classified car (ie. Compact, etc.). I told the individual my plans for the MR2 Turbo, and they said it would pass! However, there is an even stickier point. If your car is originally sold and bought here in California, there is some sort of engine number that identifies this. If this is the case then you will also have to find an engine that has a CA number to do this swap. Now this is where I stopped and went another route. I had talked to a few people that had told me there is no way the engine number says it is from CA or not. Then I spoke to others that agreed with the Board. Because there were some creditable people that said the numbers can be used to identify what state it was from I tried to find one...it was not easy for me, and with the number of cars made that you would need, it will be very difficult and cost some big dollars for you. With that said, no matter what anyone tells you here, you need to call the Board and verify it. They may even have resources available to help you find the engine, I wish I would have asked when I started. But, what it boils down to is that it is a feasable and SMOG Legal swap from what I found out.

[celicaboy04]

Thanks Green!

[CheesyLobster]

I don't normally chat too much on here as my knowledge is limited, but I do have some experience in this topic.  Well here's my two cents.  I started this route and eventually found another means for my 94 ST.  I called the Board and what they told me was that if you replaced the engine into the car it was fine as long as it was the same year or newer AND that it came stock in similar classified car (ie. Compact, etc.).  I told the individual my plans for the MR2 Turbo, and they said it would pass!  However, there is an even stickier point.  If your car is originally sold and bought here in California, there is some sort of engine number that identifies this.  If this is the case then you will also have to find an engine that has a CA number to do this swap.  Now this is where I stopped and went another route.  I had talked to a few people that had told me there is no way the engine number says it is from CA or not.  Then I spoke to others that agreed with the Board.  Because there were some creditable people that said the numbers can be used to identify what state it was from I tried to find one...it was not easy for me, and with the number of cars made that you would need, it will be very difficult and cost some big dollars for you.  With that said, no matter what anyone tells you here, you need to call the Board and verify it.  They may even have resources available to help you find the engine, I wish I would have asked when I started.  But, what it boils down to is that it is a feasable and SMOG Legal swap from what I found out.
[right][snapback]263651[/snapback][/right]

You have limited knowlege? You have a 3sgte in your celica! We know that you know more that you admit. Where did you get that pretty engine? Did you install it? You should write something up in the completed engine swap sticky.

[celicaboy04]

I just wanted to reply this as an update to all Cali 3sgte interested swappers. As confirmation to one of the earlier posts, this is DIRECT INFORMATION from the CARB (California Air Resources Board) concerning the swap of a 3sgte engine:
___________________________________________________________

It is legal for you to change the motor in your vehicle.
The new motor must be of the same year or newer.
The new motor must be from a vehicle certified to the same or cleaner
standard.
The new motor may come from another model to be installed into your vehicle.
The new motor must be from a vehicle must be of the same vehicle class as the
old vehicle (PC, LDT, MDV, etc.)
If you choose to install a new motor in your vehicle, you must make sure that
the new engine is California certified (from a vehicle that had been
California certified, ), and that all of the emission controls that were
required on the new engine are retained when installed in your vehicle. JDM
motors are not legal. Crate motors are not legal.
Once you have completed the installation of your new engine, you must go to a
Bureau of Automotive Repair Referee station where your vehicle will be
inspected. The scheduling number for the Referee stations is 1 800 622 7733
___________________________________________________________

I asked in the email what California Certified meant and whether or not they had a system to find one that was, but there was no response to that. I imagine that "California Certified"means it has all necessary smog equipment that California requires.

Would anyone know where I can find a late model 1995 3sgte engine?