toyota VS honda, stock -> turbo Options

[Consynx]

i'd just guess it's the honda is more acceptable to boost.

i dont know hondas, i dont know the compression ratio, since you said 6psi, i can guess it can be as high as 11, because 6 aint much

if that's the case, watch it TRY to hit 9, it should be toast unless those internals are hercules.(sp?)

i dont know about the valve angles of the 7A, but i do know the 5S has 22.3deg, which is for the eco-design and i've always felt that's a part of it's restriction. Since i know little about this i leave it alone...

What type of supercharger are we talking about here?
if running low boost shouldn't a supercharger be the better applicant?

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

but scavenging is only help full in a N/A motor. Under boost conditions you want the Intake valves to open later and the exhaust valves to open sooner.

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That is scavanging. Scavanging is helpful no matter if it's a turbo or not anyway. How could it not be?

if running low boost shouldn't a supercharger be the better applicant?
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I've always, and will continue to argue that a supercharger is the best bet on a 5S-FE for the reasons of no high rmp power, and lots of low end torque. The engine is just a lot better sutted for it.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Apr 18, 2005 - 11:26 AM

[Rjb23]

B series is a performance enging, where as the a series is economy engine that is like compairing a weed eater engine to a 60 cc dirt bike engine.
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a-series


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Sorry I meand F series not A as in head design.

This post has been edited by Rjb23: Apr 18, 2005 - 1:26 PM

[nik]

ok if you want to do a 7afe vs b-series

1.honda dohc =toyota slave cam
2.honda head for performance= toyota eco
3.compression honda is higher = toyota 9.5
4.bore and stroke is different i think
5.strength of the internals and block

i would rather put up a 4ag series engine to a b-series honda its a better comparsion

when you boost something that starts with 10.5 then starting a 9.5 you get more power to point (dentination) but you cant boost to much

[Kwanza26]

Here's a simple way to look at it... more horsepower vs. torque = head can flow larger volume. More torque vs. horsepower = head flows less volume, but has higher velocity. Strictly talking horsepower... the 7A barely matches a D16 in making horsepower, so same would be true if both engines were boosted. The main reason however, that a D16 can make more power per psi is its oversquared design. It's a 90mm stroke with a 7000 rpm redline, which has been proven to spin fairly reliably at 7500-8000 rpms. The bottom-end is fairly well built. Comparatively speaking, most toyota tech guys who have built 7A's and such, don't reccomend spinning the 7A block pas 7200-7500 rpms. That said, the D16 has more use of its breathing at higher rpms so it has more room to make horsepower. Make sense? Also mind you, there are many many versions of the D16... VTEC, VTEC-E, non-VTEC, all slightly different, and all will produce different numbers under boost, but the most basic reason that the D16 can make more power... it's initial design made more power, and it's stock head can make more power un-modified. A modded 7AFE head will bump the 7A past the D16...

As for the B16/18 vs. 7AFE... again, strictly horsepower here, same reason as above... even better head design. Typically speaking, not having VTEC will make tuning a whole lot easier and will make the engine more predictable... but I've seen some fairly decent turbo VTEC builds. It's a matter of taste.

I might be wrong on this but the last time I pulled the valve cover on a D16 it had two cams with one riding a slave gear. In case anyone was wondering it was from a 1997 Honda Civic EX. I'm not a big Honda fan since they don't pose a challenge like the Celica does, so I never bothered learning more than I need to know about them.

There's only one cam... but there's also a row of rockers... ;]

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Apr 19, 2005 - 2:42 AM

[creis]

well first of all, you guys keep saying turbo this, supercharger that, if your gana compare them you gata be spacific every turbo is diff. a turbo that you would put on a honda is not gana be the same as one you would put on a toyota, you gata be spacific, you can put a tiny little turbo on a b16 and get pretty good results, but if you put a big one on it the results would suck because the little motor just cant push it. but if you put a tiny little turbo on a much bigger toyota motor then the results will probilby suck because its not enough, if you put a bigger turbo on it then your results will be better.

the motors your all talking about are very diff. and each one can give pretty good results but only if you put on parts that are right for it.

I like how a motor that toyota maid 10 years ago is still far better then thoes honda put out only a few years ago.

[darksecret]

[/quote]
There's only one cam... but there's also a row of rockers... ;]
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[/quote]

I can't remember my girl has a Lancer now so I can't check, I remeber the VIN was YJ8 or something that ment it was the VTEC version, it's been a year now. I do remember that when we opened the cover there looked like more grease and build up than in the oil pan. I don't like Hondas but they do have reliable motors.

[Consynx]

Kwanza, just to add to you for those who are confused why reving higher is a good thing(because in some cases no/little power difference can come out)
the equation in it's most simplistic:
Power = Torque x Angular Velocity