best N/A engine, for toyota Options

[Shigexile]

When talking about the 3sge beams vs 2zz-ge, all of you are talking about a jdm vs usdm engine. The jdm celica sports M celica has a upgraded 2zz-ge that if I remember correctly is about 200-210 hp.
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190ps or so i thought

This post has been edited by Shigexile: Sep 30, 2005 - 8:41 AM

[Shigexile]

Any N/A engine can be great but with work. Honda people sometimes annoy me with the whole "honda is the best" because from the factory.... Honda's arnt really that fast. They're fastest car is a S2000 and only hits low 14's to high 13's, but that is a real "fast car" I guess you want to say. Everything else they make is 15.0+ And they're supposively "Super car" the NSX I think can only hit low 13's high 12's???? I dont think it's worth paying 85k on something a slightly modded supra could beat. But this is all just what I think and not trying to state facts.
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honda has so many (too many) after market parts to put on that builds up the engine to go fast... its not fair.

This post has been edited by Shigexile: Sep 30, 2005 - 8:43 AM

[BLADDER_MASTER]

When talking about the 3sge beams vs 2zz-ge, all of you are talking about a jdm vs usdm engine. The jdm celica sports M celica has a upgraded 2zz-ge that if I remember correctly is about 200-210 hp.
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190ps or so i thought
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He's right. The 2ZZ-GE in the TRD Celica Sports M has 210PS.

[macavely]

When talking about the 3sge beams vs 2zz-ge, all of you are talking about a jdm vs usdm engine. The jdm celica sports M celica has a upgraded 2zz-ge that if I remember correctly is about 200-210 hp.
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190ps or so i thought
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He's right. The 2ZZ-GE in the TRD Celica Sports M has 210PS.
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isn't the ecu programmed diffrenet and also doesn't it not have and egr system ?

[Celicaguy13]

The elise is the one that has 190. I honestly don't know much about what they did to get 210, all I know is that it exists and they were sold in japan. I'm not sure if it has EGR or not but from what I remember neither does the 3sge beams.

[Shigexile]

When talking about the 3sge beams vs 2zz-ge, all of you are talking about a jdm vs usdm engine. The jdm celica sports M celica has a upgraded 2zz-ge that if I remember correctly is about 200-210 hp.
[right][snapback]339750[/snapback][/right]

190ps or so i thought
[right][snapback]339828[/snapback][/right]

He's right. The 2ZZ-GE in the TRD Celica Sports M has 210PS.
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ohh i see. i thought he ment like stock gts

[BLADDER_MASTER]

When talking about the 3sge beams vs 2zz-ge, all of you are talking about a jdm vs usdm engine. The jdm celica sports M celica has a upgraded 2zz-ge that if I remember correctly is about 200-210 hp.
[right][snapback]339750[/snapback][/right]

190ps or so i thought
[right][snapback]339828[/snapback][/right]

He's right. The 2ZZ-GE in the TRD Celica Sports M has 210PS.
[right][snapback]339944[/snapback][/right]

isn't the ecu programmed diffrenet and also doesn't it not have and egr system ?
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More than that. The whole engine got re-done using lighter pistons, re-profiled camshafts, lighter valves and a lighter flywheel. It's like the Type R of Celica's. Only a small limited amount of Sports M's were available for sale.

Edit: Whoops, made an error. The TRD Celica Sports M has 200PS and not 210PS like I stated earlier.

This post has been edited by BLADDER_MASTER: Sep 30, 2005 - 7:45 PM

[macavely]

still thats not bad.... something to think about when rebuilding an engine ..

[Kwanza26]

200ps is like 195hp... whoopie! 5hp more than the stock overseas versions... ;] The TRD version weren't exactly highly tuned (engine-wise)... very light tuning with a body kit and wheels more or less...

Any N/A engine can be great but with work. Honda people sometimes annoy me with the whole "honda is the best" because from the factory.... Honda's arnt really that fast. They're fastest car is a S2000 and only hits low 14's to high 13's, but that is a real "fast car" I guess you want to say. Everything else they make is 15.0+ And they're supposively "Super car" the NSX I think can only hit low 13's high 12's???? I dont think it's worth paying 85k on something a slightly modded supra could beat. But this is all just what I think and not trying to state facts.

Unless you know Hondas... don't start talking Hondas. Hondas aren't fast from the factory... but depends on how you define "fast". USDM ST185 Celicas weren't fast either then (stock high 15 car), nor is the MR2 turbo (stock mid 15 car). These cars all have... what's that word... oh yeah. POTENTIAL... 200HP n/a from the factory is pretty damn decent to me, especially since these engines can squeeze an additional 20-30 whp with minor bolt-ons (especially the K series). Name another factory car in that same class that can match 200hp n/a with that buildability... I can only think of one (Celica SSIII)... Also... unless you've built and raced cars on the strip, or at least have ventured there more than once or twice... don't assume to know what's fast and what's not fast. FYI... low 14's to high 13's is very fast for most street built n/a 4 bangers. Low 14's to high 13's can handle just about 80% of the cars on the road. Even the 3SGTE swapped Celicas can only manage high 13's with the stock turbo... so what's so bad about running high 13's? High 13's is fast enough to embarass C6 corvettes especially since they'll underestimate you and your 4 banger. Maybe your standards for a fast car is worthy of being fast and furious... but in real life... most decently quick street cars are high 13 cars... simply because exponential increase in power is needed to break into the 12-11 second barriers (which means $$$). And... and NSX cannot run 12's... nor is comparing a stock NSX to a "modded" Supra fair. Hell... if I wanted a fast car I'd buy a starlet and drop in a 405 big block. Much cheaper than a Supra... but obviously people pay 85K for an NSX for other reasons than running the 1/4 mile. Think about that for a second. You know what I hate... bias against Honda because "it's cool for loyal Toyota tuners to hate on Honda"...

Simple question to ask yourself... How many car manufactures can boast 120 hp per liter STOCK?

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Sep 30, 2005 - 10:45 PM

[Celicaguy13]

200ps is like 195hp... whoopie!  5hp more than the stock overseas versions... ;]  The TRD version weren't exactly highly tuned (engine-wise)... very light tuning with a body kit and wheels more or less...

Any N/A engine can be great but with work. Honda people sometimes annoy me with the whole "honda is the best" because from the factory.... Honda's arnt really that fast. They're fastest car is a S2000 and only hits low 14's to high 13's, but that is a real "fast car" I guess you want to say. Everything else they make is 15.0+ And they're supposively "Super car" the NSX I think can only hit low 13's high 12's???? I dont think it's worth paying 85k on something a slightly modded supra could beat. But this is all just what I think and not trying to state facts.

Unless you know Hondas... don't start talking Hondas. Hondas aren't fast from the factory... but depends on how you define "fast". USDM ST185 Celicas weren't fast either then (stock high 15 car), nor is the MR2 turbo (stock mid 15 car). These cars all have... what's that word... oh yeah. POTENTIAL... 200HP n/a from the factory is pretty damn decent to me, especially since these engines can squeeze an additional 20-30 whp with minor bolt-ons (especially the K series). Name another factory car in that same class that can match 200hp n/a with that buildability... I can only think of one (Celica SSIII)... Also... unless you've built and raced cars on the strip, or at least have ventured there more than once or twice... don't assume to know what's fast and what's not fast. FYI... low 14's to high 13's is very fast for most street built n/a 4 bangers. Low 14's to high 13's can handle just about 80% of the cars on the road. Even the 3SGTE swapped Celicas can only manage high 13's with the stock turbo... so what's so bad about running high 13's? High 13's is fast enough to embarass C6 corvettes especially since they'll underestimate you and your 4 banger. Maybe your standards for a fast car is worthy of being fast and furious... but in real life... most decently quick street cars are high 13 cars... simply because exponential increase in power is needed to break into the 12-11 second barriers (which means $$$). And... and NSX cannot run 12's... nor is comparing a stock NSX to a "modded" Supra fair. Hell... if I wanted a fast car I'd buy a starlet and drop in a 405 big block. Much cheaper than a Supra... but obviously people pay 85K for an NSX for other reasons than running the 1/4 mile. Think about that for a second. You know what I hate... bias against Honda because "it's cool for loyal Toyota tuners to hate on Honda"...

Simple question to ask yourself... How many car manufactures can boast 120 hp per liter STOCK?
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But this is all just what I think and not trying to state facts.
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Damn lets not have opinions here anymore because some people dont read. Did I ever say toyotas or celicas were better. I said "STOCK" I read about 2 sentences of your post then skimmed it and saw "blah blah blah I know everything blah blah big block blah blah"

Just to let you know, I've owned more hondas and tuned more hondas then toyotas, so do us all a favor and think and try to be a little courteous next time you post. thank you.

By the way, If I would have said something close to what you posted it would have sounded a little like this...

Hi everyone. Hondas suck a$$. They are worthless and stupid and smell. Anyone who buys them are complete RICERs! Yeah they are powerless and dont make any power what so ever from modds. They are nothing compared to toyotas now. Like the awesome AWD TURBO!!! That's right you heard right TURBO! celica that's really really fast and is unbeatable. And you cannot forget about the Even faster MR2 TURBO!!! And trust me, I KNOW WHAT IS FAST! It's just plain fact that I know everything and know the actual meaning of "FAST" when talking about cars. You know what else I hate... bias against Toyota because "it's cool for loyal Honda tuners to hate on Toyotas"................ because they're better!!!

This post has been edited by Celicaguy13: Oct 1, 2005 - 1:36 AM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

You know what I hate... bias against Honda because "it's cool for loyal Toyota tuners to hate on Honda"... 
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I'll second that. I've spent a good bit of time with this issue on here.

[Celicaguy13]

You know what I hate... bias against Honda because "it's cool for loyal Toyota tuners to hate on Honda"... 
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I'll second that. I've spent a good bit of time with this issue on here.
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If you all think about it.... That's how it is on any side. That's not how I am. Quite frankly, I don't give a crap. I honestly am one of those people that no matter what kind of car you have, it's cool with me because that's your project and you have the same hobby as I do. As long as its not riced out to the point where it hurts your ears or your yelling to the person next to you because of some farty exhaust, or a wing bigger then rod millens on pikes peek.

[Celicaguy13]

By the way, sorry for being a dick.

[Hanyo]

BUMP FROM THE DEAD!!!


how much potential does the beams have?

lets assume the beams gets 195 hp at the flywheel. How much horsepower will you expect to get from bolt on tuning. (AKA intake header and exhaust).

[macavely]

with any engine the potential is found by failuer (sp) .... if you mean with stock internals /fuel/air/ecm ... i couldn't tell you ..don't have the engine .. but with the and S blaok and GE head.. the potental are up there ..... if you looking on the over seas borads... you will find alot of usefully infor to those guestions... and don't be scared to pick up the phone call performance shop.... reace teams ans ask questions... you'll be suprised how much info you can find by just picking up the phone ..

[Hanyo]

i know the ge head and the 11 compression ratio will make serious horsepower. But toyota doesnt cheap-out as badly on the intake and exhaust like honda does. So the performance increase might not be as signifacant.

[FallenHero]

beams... I wonder how the pistons/rods are... that is your indicator. If they are solid (like most 3SG's) you could mill the head down and get higher compression, run a 4-1 exhaust system, and get some nice ITB's and have Serious power. I'd dare say you'd make as much whp NA as the S2000, and would likely have more torque. Still, however, it is 4:00a.m. here so I might be babbling.

[Hanyo]

higher compression ratio?

the beams already has 11.0:1. Isn't 12:1 ratio the limit for pump gas?

[FallenHero]

I have heard of 13:1 on 93 octane. And I do say "heard." However, the difference between 11:1 and 12:1 would be quite pronounced.

[bonzaisushi]

Aluminum is for pop cans....

4age, Ra24




Im not a honda fan boy at all, but when people say that the NSX is gay because it runs low 13s for payin 80k it just pisses me off, i have a friend who owns a 94 nsx...... it wasnt neck wrenching fast on the streets, but on the course it was effing amazing! the NSX wasnt made to race a corvette, or viper, it was made to show up the 355/360 on the tracks, and it pretty much did.

This post has been edited by bonzaisushi: Oct 13, 2005 - 3:23 PM