safc2, 7afe? Options

[Bitter]

does the apexi safc2 work with the 7afe? and do i need anything besides the unit itself? i might be able to get a slightly used one for about $150, and i'm wondering what else i'd need to make it work, how hard the install is, and what sort of gains i *could* see with the 'bolt ons' i have, those are listed in my signature. i supposed the best benefit of it would be improved fuel milage.


now, being a 93....i really dont have a good way to monitor the a/f besides my fluke meter hooked to the ox1 on the diagnostics port. but the stock O2 sensor is of course a narrow band sensor, by watching the O2 voltages could i equate those to a/f well enough to get a decent tune?

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

does the apexi safc2 work with the 7afe? and do i need anything besides the unit itself? i might be able to get a slightly used one for about $150, and i'm wondering what else i'd need to make it work, how hard the install is, and what sort of gains i *could* see with the 'bolt ons' i have, those are listed in my signature. i supposed the best benefit of it would be improved fuel milage.


now, being a 93....i really dont have a good way to monitor the a/f besides my fluke meter hooked to the ox1 on the diagnostics port. but the stock O2 sensor is of course a narrow band sensor, by watching the O2 voltages could i equate those to a/f well enough to get a decent tune?

I'd check the guide on how to hook it up on the 94 5sfe. That should give you an idea of what it's going to be like. Being OBD1, you shouldn't have much problem. Manny used it on his 94, and it seemed to work fine. I'm considering getting a safc2 for my car, and I'm not really worried about anything for it.

[Bitter]

:doh: i didnt even THINK to check the how-to's

*smacks self in the forehead*

it looks alot easier than i thought it would be, having the service manaul for my car will make this a peice of cake if i go for it.


how good is the factory 7afe tune? any rough guesses what a safc2 could gain me with my light mods?

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I don't know how much you would get on a 7afe. What I did with my 5s was pull the o2 on the converter and it tricks the computer into thinking the car is running rich, so it leans out the mixture. It's kind of risky to do, but it helps out a little. I'm sure a safc2 would help more. I think maybe 10hp would be a reasonable estimate. That's probably to much though. If you can find any more of those $150 safc2's, let me know.

[lazzyboy121]

tunning with safc isnt teh easiest thing in teh world, unless u have a wide band, id take it to a dyno to get it tuned and get teh most out of it.

[presure2]

on a dyno, with the SAFCII, (which is pretty easy to install BTW)
you MAY gain 5-10whp...i've yet to see a stock 7A dyno, so i cant say how much there is to gain.

[Bitter]

well ive done some talking to 2 pretty knowledgable guys and they both say i can do a rough tune on the safc myself with readings from the stock narrowband sensor. i should shoot for .92 to .93 volts at WOT. so before i buy anything i'm going to take the car for a spin and see where the O2 voltage is now during wot pulls.

[Bitter]

i got my aem 6in1 eugo wideband on the way, brand new for $250 shipped.
safc2 should be ordered soo for about $150, lightly used but complete.



what size are the stock 7afe injectors?


also, i found a dynojet at a bussiness at a ford dealer about 15 min from my house, i left them a message after work and am hoping to hear from them sometime soon. i'd like to make a baseline before tune and then a few runs after i feel like i have a good tune going on.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jun 28, 2006 - 5:41 PM

[pure_dx]

so you're using a piggback? i dont think its worth it for the 7afe IMHO! save up all the trouble and the $$$ for engine swap or F/I!

[Bitter]

total is $400 shipped for everything, what swap can i do into a COROLLA for $400 shipped?


with any 4a swap i loose that lovely power below 3000 rpm, being able to leave a light quickly without mashing the pedal is great.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jun 28, 2006 - 8:33 PM

[jdg371]

use those for now.. then get a 4AGE or 7AGE and use them for it!

[Bitter]

use those for now.. then get a 4AGE or 7AGE and use them for it!

WAY more work than its worth, i'd have to swap to 5spd as well. by that time this car will have rusted through and i'll have something else to toss the goodies into

[pure_dx]

^ehhhh.....eeee...ahhhhh...ooooo....im pretty sure you're gonna have to deal with a lot of other stuff too when you install the safc? fuel economy, reliability? well, tell us how it goes bitter, i think you're the first to try this on here? keep us updated!

[Bitter]

fuel economy - i'll be taking fuel away during high throttle.
reliability - i wont be going leaner than 12.5:1, initially 12:1

i dont see how taking away fuel during WOT would hurt fuel economy and how leaning wot to a safe ratio would hurt relability. just becase others have damaged things with a safc2 doesnt mean i will. the difference is this....
1. i have a good understanding of knock, AF ratios, EGT's, fuel maps, and how it all relates.
2. I'm tuning it myself, so if something isnt right I can fix it ASAP
3. I'm tuning it myself with a WIDEBAND O2 sensor, so rather than just leaning it till it knocks i can actually tune for a specific ratio.



others here have used the safc2 with a 7AFE, but they were on their way to go turbo and just messing around, i dont think any were using widebands to tune by. you really cant tune without reliable O2 sensor feedback.

so you're using a piggback? i dont think its worth it for the 7afe IMHO! save up all the trouble and the $$$ for engine swap or F/I!

uhm....if i went FI, what am i supposed to use to control the engines tune if i dont use a piggy back? am i supposed to do a trans swap and get a full standalone like an EMS or a Megasquirt?

[Kwanza26]

Leaner doesn't always mean more power. 14.1-14.7 stoic is the standard for good emissions on most engines, and is the starting point people tune to... but power-wise... engines differ. Some make more power richer, some make power leaner. A lot of the newer toyota engines (1ZZ, 2ZZ, MZ, etc) typically run pretty lean. IMO... the 7AFE runs farily rich up top, and leaning that out a bit can make power... but your 12:1 is still pretty rich. If you want to tune for slightly better economy... lean out your midrange and keep your top-end slightly more rich (but still leaner than stock...)

To answer your questions... all you need is the unit and the pigtail harness. The install is easy and pretty straight forward. The stock O2 is not gonna give you a consistent reading, even at WOT, so tuning off of that isn't a very good idea. Since you mention you'll be getting a wideband... I'll assume you have an idea of what you're doing... but I'll not that there isn't much power to squeeze. 5-10whp is pretty optimistic. On the 7AFE injectors... If I remember correctly, they're 100cc or 120cc or something around there.

To close... I'll have to agree with the ones that say... don't bother. For 400 bucks you can buy a 4AGE (bigport/smallport or even silvertop 20V) and then piece together parts needed for a swap. It's really not too hard. 400.00 for a few ponies isn't really worth it to me... but each to his own. The difference in the low-end is not even noticeable between the 7afe and 4AGE...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Jun 30, 2006 - 6:48 PM

[Bitter]

well i wanted to tune with the header, and most importantly learn HOW TO tune, since ive never ever done it before. you can read and read and study, but its no substitute for doing it yourself

this is a $400 investment that can get easily yanked and installed over and over again from car to car that i'll own over the years.

since i have advanced the timing i'm shooting for 12:1 INITIAIALLY, then if that goes well i'll lean till i get a little knock, then richen it a little to be safe. or should i go about it differently?

[Kwanza26]

since i have advanced the timing i'm shooting for 12:1 INITIAIALLY, then if that goes well i'll lean till i get a little knock, then richen it a little to be safe. or should i go about it differently?

That's an OK way of going about it... but the stock tune is already rich. 12.1 is even richer depending on where you plan to tune... besides that... do it and learn. I still say very little power can be squeezed, and yes... i've done it all already... ;]

[Bitter]

well i'm saying 12:1 with my only input on the stock tune being that somewhere during a wot pull i was pegging the stock sensor at 1.0V, which is 10:1 or richer. i dont know where during the pull that happened, since i was watching the road. i had my fluke set to min/max. the wideband (aem 6 n 1 uego, $250 shipped brand new) is coming in on the 3rd and the safc2 (160 shipped, lightly used) is coming soon after.