piston help Options

[presure2]

lagos you do realize stock compression is like 9.5 on a 7afe i think
or its in the 9s...all that is required stock is 83 octane...
an Emanage with 94 octane @ a 10:1 CR should be obtainable with minor implications.
and actually those hondaz are on pump gas
**** add some H2o injection for knock control

@ .9bar doggy was making 206whp on an unopened motor
increasing the CR and tuned @ the same .9 bar it could probably see in the 220s
and some water injection maybe 230s

do we really know? no
is a higher then stock compression build possible? yes
will it take research and some trial & error? yes
does this mean we shouldn't try? no

I'll even donate the motor for 40$ to do it with

doggy DID NOT make 206whp
206HP.
10:1 compression ratio in a 7a, without a standalone, = boom.
end of discussion, dan.

[playr158]

lagos you do realize stock compression is like 9.5 on a 7afe i think
or its in the 9s...all that is required stock is 83 octane...
an Emanage Ultimate with 94 octane @ a 10:1 CR should be obtainable with minor implications.
and actually those hondaz are on pump gas
**** add some H2o injection for knock control

@ .9bar doggy was making 206whp on an unopened motor
increasing the CR and tuned @ the same .9 bar it could probably see in the 220s
and some water injection maybe 230s

do we really know? no
is a higher then stock compression build possible? yes
will it take research and some trial & error? yes
does this mean we shouldn't try? no

I'll even donate the motor for 40$ to do it with

doggy DID NOT make 206whp
206HP.
10:1 compression ratio in a 7a, without a standalone, = boom.
end of discussion, dan.

ok wow hp whp whatever the orig. poster made 207hp
i'm pretty sure in my post it says "properly tuned" go back and read my posts when we first started talking about high compression
or is reading comprehension not part of 6gc criteria?
where did i say to try that compression ratio with an safc? yea i didn't
all my post clearly stated properly tuned...to yall ricers that should translate into higher level of engine management, dyno time and a tuner

also to note..he wouldn't be the 1st person to runa 10.X:1 compression ratio on 7afe in a 6gc using 4agze pistons...

-New head with:3 angle valve job,P&P,CC compared and polished,squish job,valve guides reprofiled and CR raised to 11.06
-Arias 4AGZE pistons

tuned using a greddy emanage...
is it a boosted motor? no
is it a HIGHER then discussed CR? yes
is the motor working correctly? yes
with lower cr and a lil boost could it work if properly tuned? yes

and like i said i'm even willing to donate a full motor so he can do it...along with the research and data that i know about boosting and building the 7afe cause if you think i've posted everything i know about it your tripping yourself...
what have you offered? besides the restated?

end discussion,

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 13, 2007 - 9:32 AM

[trd94]

ok here is my plan, i am putting in a new timing belt ,(normal maint)and while i have it down i was looking at upgrading a little, the head i am sending in to a local shop to have new valve guides put in and a valve job also port & polished, to help with the flow a little , i want to upgrade the pistons and head gasket , my goal is to get 225-250 hp daily , as far as rods go i was thinking about getting them shot penned to make them a little stronger, i dont think a set of paurter rod would be needed for only 250hp ,the raised compression idea is interesting because it would give a little more down low for every day driving , i do have a water injection kit to help with knock and heat , also for the intercooler i have a sprayer kit to lower the intake temps to ,(maybe a little over kill but better safe than sorry ) now i will not be tuning this my self ,i will let a greddy shop in colombus do this as this is where i got my emanage unit along with the boost sensor ,ingnition harness , and injector harness , i got as much as i could get to tune this little project, also i read that jdm 7afe cams where a little more agressive, i have a set but i dont know if this is true ( we will find out ) as far as dyno sheets i will post them when i take it in to get done so i can share any info . now the pistons are just a idea and i would like to try it ,but before i do i will research the sh*t out of it , and talk to a few other tuners to get there input ,again i am not going to do this myself i love my car to much to see it just as a paper weight , so any input is great

This post has been edited by trd94: Feb 13, 2007 - 11:04 AM

[Punisher]

Ya know.. maybe some people just like being "original" ... but I've been down the road of "original" and "under dog" bull****.. Oh ya lets take this heap of **** engine and try to make it something fantastic.. all we need to do is throw money at it... what did it get me? Shot piston rings and a worthless engine with fat cams and quad carbs that were impossible to tune.. not to mention a few thousand down the drain.

Think about the long run.. what will be easier to build, be more reliable with power and cheaper in the long run?

I seriously don't know why people try to put all of this 2000 dollar budget engineering into an engine hoping to make reliable every day power.

A 3S can be had for around 2K.. a full swap if you do it yourself would only come out to about 3500 tops.. with some new engine parts .. FMIC or what not.. exhaust etc... and you'll be making over 200whp reliably every single day. Then you have the option of making more power with fairly simple upgrades like the turbo.. go standalone ecu.. fuel upgrades.. you will be making a LOT more reliable power. You will also have less headaches of trying to figure stupid **** out.. and you will spend less money.

To do this little 7afe boosted **** you will need a standalone.. you will then need dyno time.. don't forget wideband o2.. don't forget aftermarket MAP sensor ... turbo.. custom manifold.. etc etc etc etc... Then you get to blow up the transmission or take a lot of life off of it.. unless you get a better trans.. oops there is more money.

best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

[trd94]

Ya know.. maybe some people just like being "original" ... but I've been down the road of "original" and "under dog" bull****.. Oh ya lets take this heap of **** engine and try to make it something fantastic.. all we need to do is throw money at it... what did it get me? Shot piston rings and a worthless engine with fat cams and quad carbs that were impossible to tune.. not to mention a few thousand down the drain.

Think about the long run.. what will be easier to build, be more reliable with power and cheaper in the long run?

I seriously don't know why people try to put all of this 2000 dollar budget engineering into an engine hoping to make reliable every day power.

A 3S can be had for around 2K.. a full swap if you do it yourself would only come out to about 3500 tops.. with some new engine parts .. FMIC or what not.. exhaust etc... and you'll be making over 200whp reliably every single day. Then you have the option of making more power with fairly simple upgrades like the turbo.. go standalone ecu.. fuel upgrades.. you will be making a LOT more reliable power. You will also have less headaches of trying to figure stupid **** out.. and you will spend less money.

To do this little 7afe boosted **** you will need a standalone.. you will then need dyno time.. don't forget wideband o2.. don't forget aftermarket MAP sensor ... turbo.. custom manifold.. etc etc etc etc... Then you get to blow up the transmission or take a lot of life off of it.. unless you get a better trans.. oops there is more money.

best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

WOW!!!! get up on the wrong side of the bed did we? jk....... i would love to swap but it is just not legal to do and i dont need any of that trouble know if i had a 5gen then that is totaly what i would do as far as the trans goes i have a auto ( wait dont bash on it to hard) i have put in a better torque converter into it so i dont think it should be a problem, as far as spending money this is my hobbie i dont drink or smoke , no drugs ,so i spend any extra cash i can on building cars (legal street cars) i have a 3000gt i built up n/a to run a 13 sec 1/4 mi time ,and a civic with a d15 that is turboed every day driver that put down a decent 193hp to the wheels my celica has been turboed for about 20,000 miles and is running strong ,i just want a little more out of it , and i would like to learn what i can from doing this. a swap is kind of a no brainer ,no offence to any one that has a swap ,it is just most any one can do it

[playr158]

haha i like this guy!

[Punisher]

haha i like this guy!

It's not legal? You live in Ohio.. and from what I know about Ohio in most of the state there isn't even a required inspection... If you want to get that anal then putting a turbo on your honda isn't legal either.. it's not factory after all. Infact, anything you do on a car to modify the engine isn't "legal".

You're talking like you live in California.. hell there is a lot of guys in Cali with 3S swaps.. I didn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed either.. but if u want to assume that go ahead. I'm just trying to save you the time/hassle on that 7afe.. but if you are happy with getting mediocre horsepower than go for it. Your 7afte won't be legal either.

[trd94]

haha i like this guy!

It's not legal? You live in Ohio.. and from what I know about Ohio in most of the state there isn't even a required inspection... If you want to get that anal then putting a turbo on your honda isn't legal either.. it's not factory after all. Infact, anything you do on a car to modify the engine isn't "legal".

You're talking like you live in California.. hell there is a lot of guys in Cali with 3S swaps.. I didn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed either.. but if u want to assume that go ahead. I'm just trying to save you the time/hassle on that 7afe.. but if you are happy with getting mediocre horsepower than go for it. Your 7afte won't be legal either.

ok in ohio it is not illegal to swap out a motor but you have to use a motor that was offered int that model within the year(s) offered a 5th gen with a swap would be ok as the alltrack is offered but a 6th gen would not be because we were not offered the alltrack (or gt-4) a older swap would not pass any smog test or title inspection, and the do inspection in ohio it just varies where you live ,also if i sell the car with a swap i would be held reasponsable for removing the motor and replacing it with the right motor, also i would get fined ,as far as the turbo goes as long as it would pass smog test there is nothing they could do as they do not have a law in place that forbids bolt ons ,as long as you use approved stuff. and yes my civic did pass a sniffer test that i set up , my cousin is a state trooper just have to make sure you use a very good cat. yeah i could do a swap and then whin i go to any shows or get pulled over then i would have to worry about if the want to look under the hood or be a prick ,as it is now i have passed 2 inspections so i do worry about it a little ,it would be diferant if i drove a mustang or a vette , but since i dont and my car gets a lot of attention ,i tend to get pulled over alot and no i dont street race i am a little older than that

[lagos]

yeah i could do a swap and then whin i go to any shows or get pulled over then i would have to worry about if the want to look under the hood or be a prick

your kidding right? do you think any cop or inspection station has ANY clue as to what is in your car? they dont. your boosted 7afe is just as "illegal" as any motor swap would be.

but anyway, this thread isn't about a swap or any legal questions.
Player is feeding you incorrect information. raising your compression, on a motor that is already high comp, is a bad idea. sure you can say "as long as its properly tuned", but unless you have done some form of tuning in the past, you'll quickly realize that sometimes, its almost impossible to tune out knock on a motor like that.

now sure, someone can post a link to a honda, along with dyno sheets to prove that its been done, but just because it did ok on a dyno run, doesn't mean that car is still running problem free today.

[trd94]

yeah i could do a swap and then whin i go to any shows or get pulled over then i would have to worry about if the want to look under the hood or be a prick

your kidding right? do you think any cop or inspection station has ANY clue as to what is in your car? they dont. your boosted 7afe is just as "illegal" as any motor swap would be.

but anyway, this thread isn't about a swap or any legal questions.
Player is feeding you incorrect information. raising your compression, on a motor that is already high comp, is a bad idea. sure you can say "as long as its properly tuned", but unless you have done some form of tuning in the past, you'll quickly realize that sometimes, its almost impossible to tune out knock on a motor like that.

now sure, someone can post a link to a honda, along with dyno sheets to prove that its been done, but just because it did ok on a dyno run, doesn't mean that car is still running problem free today.

your right this is not about what is legal or not , i dont think he is incorrect i just think no one has tried it i think 11:1 is a bit to high but i think some of the newer cars that are factory turboed might be running 10:1 i cant remember what one i was reading about right now off the top of my head. what about the older muscle cars that ran a 12:1 and super charged them of course the where running leaded fuel or alcohol so they were not street legal ,and i am not saying this would work for me

[playr158]

yeah i could do a swap and then whin i go to any shows or get pulled over then i would have to worry about if the want to look under the hood or be a prick

your kidding right? do you think any cop or inspection station has ANY clue as to what is in your car? they dont. your boosted 7afe is just as "illegal" as any motor swap would be.

but anyway, this thread isn't about a swap or any legal questions.
Player is feeding you incorrect information. raising your compression, on a motor that is already high comp, is a bad idea. sure you can say "as long as its properly tuned", but unless you have done some form of tuning in the past, you'll quickly realize that sometimes, its almost impossible to tune out knock on a motor like that.

now sure, someone can post a link to a honda, along with dyno sheets to prove that its been done, but just because it did ok on a dyno run, doesn't mean that car is still running problem free today.

a) how is in correct and a bad idea when a 7afe is already running 11.06:1 CR using a greddy emanage
b) if you're having a motor tuned common sense says take it someone whos done it before
c) how do you know its impossible? i'm pretty sure you've never tried...
d) and nowhere have i claimed it would work 100% or made guarentees.
i've provided general information from personal research i and other people have done about this process. and now he as a generic starting point which he will be able to further on his own.

so unless you pull up some proof backing up your claims...all you've writen here is just that blank unsupported claims and not knowing ****

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 13, 2007 - 9:31 PM

[trd94]

hey player who is running the 11:1 setup could you give me his name so i can talk with him thanks

[Punisher]

Um.. So you're saying that if you swapped a 5th gen GTS that would be legal because it's the same model car? Last time I checked a 5th gen alltrac comes up as TOYOTA CELICA ALLTRAC.. Not GT.. not GTS.. It's in the same class as the CELICA but it is NOT the SAME MODEL.

besides.. a 3S is a bolt in swap

Anyway.. i didn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed.. I just crawled out of the bed of expirence. And yes.. I've owned a 7afe.. infact I swapped one into my 89 corolla sr5 coupe.. did all the wiring myself.. that car comes factory carb'd.. so it was a job in itself.. I also did a lot of custom fab on a 4af.. including quad carbs.. stick that one under your night cap.. and I've built a 3sgte from ground up .. did the wiring myself.. and I'm more than maxing out the stock fuel system on that motor with only 14psi.. daily driven at that.. I've torn transmissions apart too. Some of the people on this board are just online mechanics... so you can decide if you want to listen to people with real expirence or those who just read about things.

Engineers have a good saying that goes like this..

Built on paper is different than built in real world. Think about that one.

[trd94]

a legal motor swap would be a motor from that model (celica) 94-99 any motor offered in it for the usdm release ,you can use a motor from a differant car as long as the motor is the same that was offered, corolla 93-97 (1.8l ) mr2 (2.2l ) now i think the 3sgte was offered in the mr2 from 89-94 but that is a little gray as the motor was not in the celica motor line up but it would pass any smog or title test, this is what i was told by my cousin , a state trooper. glad to see you have the expirence of working on a few differant motors and i dont wear a night cap.............ha ha !! i jk i jk , thanks for your input but i dont think i will be doing a swap just because you said to i all ready have alot done to this motor to just let it go , now i also know that the 3s is a strong motor ,but dont foget about nik and his 7agte setup .i know he has alot of money and time into it but that is what he wanted and if he just did a swap we would not have the info we have know.

[jason]

besides.. a 3S is a bolt in swap

on an st? wouldnt he have to get a gt trans or a new trans anyway along with new mounts? besides i totally agree with just swapping the engine. however to each his own, im not gonna yell at someone for having a black car instead of a red one, but these arguments or discussions that people have with proving each other wrong or correct i encourage as long as they stay civil, god knows how much i have learned from all this, get to see each & every view even when someone is just being a wise guy playin devils advocate to prove someone wrong i love it!!!!

[Punisher]

besides.. a 3S is a bolt in swap

on an st? wouldnt he have to get a gt trans or a new trans anyway along with new mounts? besides i totally agree with just swapping the engine. however to each his own, im not gonna yell at someone for having a black car instead of a red one, but these arguments or discussions that people have with proving each other wrong or correct i encourage as long as they stay civil, god knows how much i have learned from all this, get to see each & every view even when someone is just being a wise guy playin devils advocate to prove someone wrong i love it!!!!

Trans and mounts.. IIRC they all bolt in

Ya, I don't really care what he does either.. more power to him. Just want people to be sure they know what they are getting into.. Also the cost/time vs. outcome scenario.

[playr158]

mounts don't just bolt in...you have to drill into your frame inorder to mount the left (P-side) motor mount
plus you need a nice other amount of things, axels, tranny, shift cables and the sort

[Punisher]

mounts don't just bolt in...you have to drill into your frame inorder to mount the left (P-side) motor mount
plus you need a nice other amount of things, axels, tranny, shift cables and the sort

I'm sure with an online mechanic helping him it won't be an issue, right?

[playr158]

honestly the 3s isn't the holy **** of motors though it be a good one
you are far missing the point of what he is doing.....stop throwing the 3s into bull****....its rather annoying when someone tries a 7afte project and people keep bitching about should just 3s it....

good luck TRD let me know if u need help
(and wow online mechanic really? since i have customers in over 3 states and 2 countries?)

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 19, 2007 - 11:25 AM

[Negative]

LOL. He wants more form his 7A - it's his motor let him do it.
BTW - Anyone know what the fastest documented 1/4mile is on 7A-FTE/GTE?