Rant on Theories, Laws & Misconceptions Options

[Supersprynt]

I hesitated creating a thread regarding this but this is really the best medium in which many people can talk openly about something w/o much consequence. Plus I'm big on freedom of speech and so here it goes.

Friday night I go and see Damon Wayans stand up. Second time I saw him, and he was pretty funny the first time. This time he wasn't nearly as funny. Mainly because he started attacking anything that wasn't Christian. Oh boy. So he goes on to say that evolution is the stupidest thing he's ever heard and goes about mocking how its ridiculous something just formed and one day hopped out of the water and another day got legs and another day jumped up into a tree and then finally said "I got to get a job" as a human.

Hilarious. Oh wait, its not. In fact I was flabberghasted and the level of sheer stupidity emanating from this mans mouth. Evolution is the stupidest thing he's heard? Did he think it happened in 6 days? He then continued to say that atheism is on the rise and its basically got to be stopped and how its horrible not to believe in anything.

By now your thinking, where is he going with this? My dilemma which is actually eating at me is how many of you think that evolution isn't real? How many people think that evolution happened overnight; and how many people are under the impression that evolution is just a hypothesis, nothing more than a guess; how many people think atheism is evil? Im genuinely curious.

If I dont get any responses to this I'll chalk it up to I wrote too much, you got tired, fell asleep and drooled on your keyboard. I also want to say that if you do decide to respond, you do it in an intelligent, RESPECTFUL manner. I'm not looking for this to get closed because religion is a very very touchy subject. This is primarily for those who have an open mind, and willing to engage in intelligent conversation.

Thanks.

[Defgeph]

Evolution. You can't argue with scientific facts.

Do I believe there was this man named Jesus ? Yes.
Do I believe in religion ? No
Do I care what you believe in ? Not really. It's non of my business.

To many terrible things happen in the name of religion. Religion should be kept to one's self.

[celicaST]

evolution is not a theory, its a fact. atheism is not evil. i believe there is a higher power but i dont believe in a religion. because although evolution explains how, it will never explain why. in my opinion, the varying religions around the world were created to explain natural phenomena and to in effect provide order in early society. seems to me that religion today is propagated more by fear than anything else.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 25, 2007 - 9:17 PM

[snapshotgt]

The thing that really gets me annoyed is when people think "religious" people don't believe, or cannot believe in evolution. Yes, it is true some don't, they are fundamentalists.

BUT, you can be religious or "very religious" and still believe in evolution. You cannot think about it in a "black and white" way.

What does atheism have to do with this? You brought it up for no reason. I'm not going to get into it with you because this thread would end up being locked. Not calling you evil -- just do not share your views in anyway.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Feb 25, 2007 - 9:25 PM

[Consynx]

i've gone over this in a 6gc chat before.

the whole "you need to have faith. . ." in who knows what...
yea, i got faith...in myself.


...right now i am having trouble thinking of anything that can come out of believing in a religion that u can't get outside. . .

^^ and to that, didn't know there was anything wrong with NOT believing in a divine being.

This post has been edited by Consynx: Feb 25, 2007 - 9:39 PM

[NickJames]

For a person to attack a particular belief is wrong in general. What I believe is that on top of freedom of speech, we have many other freedoms, such as freedom of religion, and whatever that may mean to people, thats fine. But in a general sense, whether a God given right or just common sense, we should ALL, including the rich and famous, comedic or not, to respect the thoughts and "beliefs" of everyone else. I personally believe in God, I don't have a complete understanding of it all, but I do believe that religion in and of itself is a man made creation, used to categorize and seperate people. I also believe in evolution, in the sense that things are always evolving, adapting, learning, if anybody can't see that, whether spiritual or not, should take the opportunity to look at the facts. So to believe in God AND evolution (science) is not blasphemous or wrong, just more open minded. So.....with that, I feel that it is cruel and completely unnecessary to attack, mame, ridicule other "beliefs" or lack there of. What it all boils down to is, can't we all get along!?!?!?! And if we can't, then what is the point of being alive, except of course to love our cars lol

This post has been edited by NickJames: Feb 25, 2007 - 10:00 PM

[CelicaBuddy]

I am an Athiest... Doesnt mean I'm a horrible person and that I have nothing to believe in like this comedian thinks... I just believe in more factual things and things I can actually see... (granted you cant see evolution happen... but...)

To me evolution and how this world was made makes WAY more sense to me because it goes off theories and facts where you can actually put 2 and 2 together...

I dont believe in religion because to me it doesnt make sense to me that "one being" or whatever it may be, created everything we know over night or whatever. Where's the evidence of god creating this world and everything?

Because there's seems to be a lot more scientic evidence of evolution...

[Jen]

If you have time (and patience), this is a very interesting video.

Creation vs. Evolution debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cffk0zQ33k

[NickJames]

The way that I see it though is that science and religion are beginning to go much more hand in hand. I can see what you mean when it comes to being able to see things for a fact....I used to belive that, until one day I had a spiritual "experience" so to speak. Now I believe in more. I do a lot of learning about all the different religions, I try to keep an open mind. I saw something a while back going over the complexity of life, and it would be like a 1 in like some astronomical number chance for it to be real. Life and existence is just too beautiful and comlicated to it to not be from intelleigent design. And that goes from earth to the entire universe, its amazing and complex and, in my opinion, completely feasible that God and science can a should be able to coexist.

[Supersprynt]

I'm agreeing with most of all of your points. I do admit I tend to "black & white" the situation because I dont encounter too many people who actually say yes evolution makes alot of sense and yes I believe in god.

Absolutely agree that denominations should be a private thing. You believe what you have to believe to make your life complete.

Snapshot - I brought up atheism because Damon Wayans did. I was running through what he said while I was typing.

And Sabrina your right. Atheism DOESNT mean your a horrible person. Thats propaganda. Your also right about the evidence thing. Especially since theres zero evidence supporting the other.

Nick - I'm going to have to disagree with what your saying that religion and science are coming together. I think now more than ever are they farther apart, and for good reason. They are opposites. Science is based on observation, and facts. God and spiritualness are based upon belief, feelings and therefore neither one will be together. The world is equally horrid as it is beautiful. If you do not see the horrible things that happen everyday you only get a single perspective. The world has developed from trial and error. If god created evolution, in which some things fail, god fails. God cannot fail, cannot be wrong or else he would nto be god.

Jen REALLY long vid. lol

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 25, 2007 - 10:24 PM

[NickJames]

Science does not show things and learn things by proving, science is the art of DISproving theories until it can't be done therefore having an answer, so you say that there is no proof of God, but science has yet to DISprove it. It is true, however, that a large portion of scientist, even those working on evolution, believe in God and/or a higher being. And to reply to the failing aspect. God created us, and if we fail, we fix, and continue on, so it is not God that fails, it is us.

This post has been edited by NickJames: Feb 25, 2007 - 10:26 PM

[Supersprynt]

Ah yes. See you have fallen into a classic pitfall from which you are talking about. You are incorrect on this basis. It is NOT the job of people to disprove what you are saying. It is YOUR job to backup what you belief with evidence and facts. Science does not go around disproving things. Hypotheses are made, they are tested and retested and retested until they are Theory.

Unfortunately u have it backwards. If your in college; take the first 2 philosophy courses. It will challenge you in ways you didnt yet know you could be. I say the first 2 because the first is If-Then stuff, only does the second one come into the fallible logic your using now.

Addendum.

Science, in the broadest sense, refers to any system of objective knowledge. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

Science does not have a direction. As in, they do not Prove or Disprove. Scientists observe. Simple as that. If a hypothesis is observed to be wrong. It is changed or thrown out. Only after hypothesis pass the scientific method does it become a theory. This is where the Theory of Evolution lies now. Its not a "theory" as in, we "think" this is whats going on. It is passed the scientific method and has evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 25, 2007 - 10:33 PM

[Jen]

Oh, but Erik if you have the time, it is such a great video! You get to see two perspectives, it's really interesting if you're into that kind of thing.

---

Maybe a little off topic, but something I've always wondered about (get pissed about). I'll put it vaguely since I'm supposed to be doing homework right now. The seperation between church and state is a bunch of bs. If there was really a "seperation" they wouldn't have laws against gay marriage, and laws against stem cell research.

PS. I love this thread.

This post has been edited by Jen: Feb 25, 2007 - 10:31 PM

[NickJames]

but the tesitng and retesting is a search to disprove the theories, then if it cannot be disproved anymore, then it is fact

[Supersprynt]

NJ - your a little unfamiliar with the scientific process. Theories have already been studied beyond a shadow of a doubt to be true. Hypotheses are those which are explanations where they think this is why it happens. Its not like they can take "the belief in god" and test it and test it because its impossible. Its not an observation. Its a feeling, a belief. You cant disprove god because theres nothing to observe, its faith. So when you say they havent disproven god its because they aren't, they cant, its impossible. What they can do is explain everything else that was once attributed to god. And in consequence, it sorta disproves his existence "according to the bible etc."

Jen - there is seperation of church and state. No its not stated in those words but it does state that the government does not support one religion over another. If you, or anyone can find the text of the constitution regarding this that'd be great. The states define marriage as between man and woman. It has nothing to do with religion really.

[uberschall]

i am not atheistic. i am agnostic. it is my firm belief that the scope of human understanding is limited to the things that we can experience with our basic senses-sight, touch, etc.

i think that the human realm is rocks, trees, and everything on the earth, and that's it. regardless of how life came to exist on this planet, we simply cannot completely understand it.

in our limited scope, evolution is obvious from the standpoint that it continues to this very moment. there are new diseases born of existing ones through small-scale evolutionary processes. on top of that, the paleontological evidence of evolution is undeniable.

as for science, we can define it however we want. playing semantics about the definition of the word does not diminish that no matter what you want to call it, sciences are understandings and methods, nothing more. science nor religion can present a flawless ideological baseline, but it is an important feature of any ideological system to include a higher power.

if you choose to establish said higher power as a creationary being, so be it. if you choose to submit that there is no higher power, fine. i submit that we are simply incapable of beginning to understand anyway.

[Supersprynt]

Jen - separation of church and state was coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter he wrote to the Danbury Baptists regarding the first amendment.

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

[x_itchy_b_x]

umm the flying angelic beings that people with small minds who couldn't describe what they saw thousands of years ago saw aliens and the wings we see in illustrations just suggest flight since all the people could comprehend was that birds fly. the aztecs saw boats when the Spanish came and killed them all and they described the boats as floating mountains not knowing what a boat was how would they call them boats, get it. smart. reigion is just a belief to try and explain where we came from and the stories were poorly translated and crap loads of books where left out of the bible because it wasn't in the interest of the roman catholic church to put those books in. also in the great vast of time humans have been on earth the bible is new, to get the real info look further back in history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSB4QRjt8fM...256&index=0
the nemesis theory because backs this theory up with the idea of being in a double star system. id rather learn whats older than religion and thats the universe.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=45...mp;q=physics+10
go to 35:00 in that video ^

also i believe in a God, not in the sense of Jesus or Budda or Shiva who ever. but more in the creator of the universe. The great architect of the universe.
Thats just my belief though :x

[Consynx]

got a good bit into video....
goin to bed
will try to watch it later


AND read these other huge comments...i am typing from the bed at this point.

and Science is not disproving other theories. . .
TONS of science is hypothesis...and then there's testing to back em up and see if they fail...
that is why science is different...it requires a form of proof, because a plain hypothesis without any testing/reseasrch goes NoWhere

[97lestyousay]

I believe in right and wrong. I see nothing wrong with
religion teaching the difference. When people start pushing
thier beliefs on others is where I draw the line. As far as evolution,
we still are. I believe if forced in a controlled environment we
can be made to adapt to almost anything over a few generations.

Edid: what happened to the Damon Wayens from Mo-Money?

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Feb 25, 2007 - 11:48 PM