Opinions, 5sfte over 3sgte Options

[Legit94GT]

So i am now leaning more towards turboing my 5sfte instead of doing a 3's swap.

Wouldn't the 5 have a great power potential over the 3's because it is a 2.2L and not a 2L?

If i do all the work to turbo it myself, i can use my extra money to stroke the engine, but if i do that would that maybe be to much horse power for the motor?

Has anyone stroked thier engine and what was your gain in hp?
I've seen some posts say for around a $2,500 it make your engine put out around 300hp...

Thanks for the info...

This post has been edited by Legit94GT: Feb 18, 2008 - 7:26 PM

[D-Man]

So i am now leaning more towards turboing my 5sfte instead of doing a 3's swap.

Wouldn't the 5 have a great power potential over the 3's because it is a 2.2L and not a 2L?

If i do all the work to turbo it myself, i can use my extra money to stroke the engine, but if i do that would that maybe be to much horse power for the motor?

Has anyone stroked thier engine and what was your gain in hp?
I've seen some posts say for around a $2,500 it make your engine put out around 300hp...

Thanks for the info...

I'm not quite turbo'd yet, But I'm doing a 5sfte setup. I HAVE HEARD that the swaped 3's are somewhat unreliable, and though they make masive gains percentage wise, the 5's are overall better and more reliable.

BUT beware that the 5's have problems with timing at boosted levels. So slight modification is required there, but otherwise have been more reliable for daily drivers. But i dont know for myself. This is what i've heard, and for my purposes; this is what i'm presuing.
\
As for too much power; They say that can be corrected by using the proper amount of compression in conjunction with what hardware you've got (pistons, cams, ect.)

Make no misteak, you can blow your engine, but if you are careful, then you can do well...

As for 300hp; I dont think that will last too long... Again, I am not the pro, but to relate your question to my medium, I am shooting for 200 - 215whp. should be like 230-245 hp max... With the 5sfe engine.

But there are plenty of people who actualy KNOW what they are talking about, Who will help you to achive this. And if you do 300 and get it (or most) to the wheel on a 5sfte, And it rides reliably as a daily; PLEASE let me know!!

[bccentaur3]

So i am now leaning more towards turboing my 5sfte instead of doing a 3's swap.

Wouldn't the 5 have a great power potential over the 3's because it is a 2.2L and not a 2L?

If i do all the work to turbo it myself, i can use my extra money to stroke the engine, but if i do that would that maybe be to much horse power for the motor?

Has anyone stroked thier engine and what was your gain in hp?
I've seen some posts say for around a $2,500 it make your engine put out around 300hp...

Thanks for the info...

I'm not quite turbo'd yet, But I'm doing a 5sfte setup. I HAVE HEARD that the swaped 3's are somewhat unreliable, and though they make masive gains percentage wise, the 5's are overall better and more reliable.

BUT beware that the 5's have problems with timing at boosted levels. So slight modification is required there, but otherwise have been more reliable for daily drivers. But i dont know for myself. This is what i've heard, and for my purposes; this is what i'm presuing.
\
As for too much power; They say that can be corrected by using the proper amount of compression in conjunction with what hardware you've got (pistons, cams, ect.)

Make no misteak, you can blow your engine, but if you are careful, then you can do well...

As for 300hp; I dont think that will last too long... Again, I am not the pro, but to relate your question to my medium, I am shooting for 200 - 215whp. should be like 230-245 hp max... With the 5sfe engine.

But there are plenty of people who actualy KNOW what they are talking about, Who will help you to achive this. And if you do 300 and get it (or most) to the wheel on a 5sfte, And it rides reliably as a daily; PLEASE let me know!!

What motor you use turbo'd has nothing to do with how reliable it is. Reliability should be more based upon who owns the vehicle and who did the set-up or swap. Its how you build you motor and how you maintain it. About the 5s being toublesome with boost is obviously the ecu. The ecu wasn't programed for boost like the 3sgte motor. So obviously its going to be doing some funky stuff. Its how you tune it man. I say if your not ready, don't bother wasting your money.

[lagos]

What motor you use turbo'd has nothing to do with how reliable it is. Reliability should be more based upon who owns the vehicle and who did the set-up or swap. Its how you build you motor and how you maintain it. About the 5s being toublesome with boost is obviously the ecu. The ecu wasn't programed for boost like the 3sgte motor. So obviously its going to be doing some funky stuff. Its how you tune it man. I say if your not ready, don't bother wasting your money.

Well said man. There have been a lot of guys who parted out their turbo kits and guys who have sold their swaps. The simple fact is that regardless of the setup, those people cut corners and didnt take the time to do things right.

Presure2 has put about 40k (i think) on his 5sfTe, and I have about the same on my 3sgte. We both drive our cars on a daily basis. They key is to do your own work, don't cut corners, and learn about your car.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 18, 2008 - 11:22 PM

[bccentaur3]

Exactly^. Cutting corners is where it gets you in the end. Plus if you don't do your work you won't know what goes where and how it works, when something breaks.

[Legit94GT]

so if turboing a 5sfte can give you boosting problems mostly because of the ecu, could you use an ecu from a 3?
Or would that just lead to even more problems?

I know nothing of ecu's, keep that in mind...

I'd probablly be having the shop do the install, and all the tuning( i called today but their manager was gone cause its president day, weak sauce!!!)

40k? Geez!!! I just want to make my celica go faster, if i was goign to drop 25-40k on a car i'd go buy a 350z:)

[lagos]

40k?

40,000 miles. As in, we have put about 40,000 miles on each of our setups and they are still running.

I'd probablly be having the shop do the install, and all the tuning

Then your setup WILL fail and you WILL end up either parting out the kit or blowing your motor. Plain and simple.
If your not willing to learn about your car, then a turbo celica is not for you.

[bccentaur3]

Thank you... If you love your car. you WILL be willing to put the time into learning about your car. The more you learn about your car the more in love you are with it. Well it could go the other way too, but we want a happy ending.

[spolski07]

Then your setup WILL fail and you WILL end up either parting out the kit or blowing your motor. Plain and simple.
If your not willing to learn about your car, then a turbo celica is not for you.

that is a steep statement, although the learning about your car part is correct, not all of us are blessed with the right equipment time and know how to do a project like this
i think that if the shop has a good rep. you should be fine, but the above statement is just stating that ALL shops are bad and dont know what they are doing. im not saying they all know, but their are some out there that know what they are talking about

[supershannon77]

If there is one thing I can say to everyone on the site it is to becareful when using a shop...I Lost my first engine when a shop did my first 5sfte swap...With the new 5sfte and Presure2 doing my work I have had 0 problems....Just do your research.

[bccentaur3]

Then your setup WILL fail and you WILL end up either parting out the kit or blowing your motor. Plain and simple.
If your not willing to learn about your car, then a turbo celica is not for you.

that is a steep statement, although the learning about your car part is correct, not all of us are blessed with the right equipment time and know how to do a project like this
i think that if the shop has a good rep. you should be fine, but the above statement is just stating that ALL shops are bad and dont know what they are doing. im not saying they all know, but their are some out there that know what they are talking about

Lagos was not implying that all shops are bad. This is how I read it. When he said that the motor will fail, that is probably due to the fact that he learned nothing from the swap. Lets say something happens and he has no money. What does he do? Try to work on it with no knowledge and end up making the car even worse. I just hope the guy won;t be the type who will take a car to the shop because of a vac leak. lol.

[6strngs]

to be honest, I think a 3s would probably be more reliable. depending on who does the install and if anybody half-asses anything. but that motor is already designed for boost and I think would be able to handle more abuse than a 5s.

it'll be difficult to make 300hp on a 5s, then again it's also difficult to make 300hp on a 3s. but I think it'd probably be cheaper to do on a 3s than a 5s

nothing against the 5sfte, I've got one and I love it when it works, but I'm really considering an all-trac or mr2 as my next car to see how I like a 3s compared to a 5s, but that won't be anytime soon.

[lagos]

Then your setup WILL fail and you WILL end up either parting out the kit or blowing your motor. Plain and simple.
If your not willing to learn about your car, then a turbo celica is not for you.

that is a steep statement, although the learning about your car part is correct, not all of us are blessed with the right equipment time and know how to do a project like this
i think that if the shop has a good rep. you should be fine, but the above statement is just stating that ALL shops are bad and dont know what they are doing. im not saying they all know, but their are some out there that know what they are talking about

See, here is the problem that most newbies dont realize and end up learning the hard way later on...
Most people think of going to a shop for a 5sfTe, or a 3sgte, like they think of going to a shop to get new brake pads installed. They want it done in 30min, they want to pay as little as possible, and they expect to drive away, and never think about their car again.

The problem is not with a good/bad shop (well it is, but thats a whole other topic). The REAL problem is that you WILL have problems with your car after the initial install is done, and you will have no idea how to diagnose or fix it. Then you'll end up either blowing the motor, or saying "this sucks" and selling or parting out.

I have seen my share of 5sfte end up that way. I have also seen a few swaps that were done by very reputable shops, have problems that the cars owner just simply does not understand.

The whole point is, this is not like a brake job. You cant find the perfect shop to do everything right, and for you to never have to worry about it again. If your not willing to learn about your car, then you shouldnt be driving a turbo celica. Go buy a nice wrx or something thats been engineered from the ground up by a huge car manufacture.

[spolski07]

Then your setup WILL fail and you WILL end up either parting out the kit or blowing your motor. Plain and simple.
If your not willing to learn about your car, then a turbo celica is not for you.

that is a steep statement, although the learning about your car part is correct, not all of us are blessed with the right equipment time and know how to do a project like this
i think that if the shop has a good rep. you should be fine, but the above statement is just stating that ALL shops are bad and dont know what they are doing. im not saying they all know, but their are some out there that know what they are talking about

See, here is the problem that most newbies dont realize and end up learning the hard way later on...
Most people think of going to a shop for a 5sfTe, or a 3sgte, like they think of going to a shop to get new brake pads installed. They want it done in 30min, they want to pay as little as possible, and they expect to drive away, and never think about their car again.

The problem is not with a good/bad shop (well it is, but thats a whole other topic). The REAL problem is that you WILL have problems with your car after the initial install is done, and you will have no idea how to diagnose or fix it. Then you'll end up either blowing the motor, or saying "this sucks" and selling or parting out.

I have seen my share of 5sfte end up that way. I have also seen a few swaps that were done by very reputable shops, have problems that the cars owner just simply does not understand.

The whole point is, this is not like a brake job. You cant find the perfect shop to do everything right, and for you to never have to worry about it again. If your not willing to learn about your car, then you shouldnt be driving a turbo celica. Go buy a nice wrx or something thats been engineered from the ground up by a huge car manufacture.

not once in my post did i say anything about going the cheap way out or comparing it to a brake job.
your post of you promising it going to fail for the sole fact that the owner didnt install it is a very bold statement. IF you are so perfect, why dont you do swaps for other people? im not standing up for all shops, im not standing up for one, but your opinion on tuning shops is very bias and one sided.

[bccentaur3]

Dude Lagos is just stating the facts. If you were to take your car to a shop to get a 3s swap done and its your dd. Wouldn't you want to press on it getting done fast?

[supershannon77]

I was where you once were being told the same things well with me it was a little different bc i had an older engine but it was still along the same lines...When a shop does it you dont no what is happening how they are mounting things what brand parts they are using.. things like that. So when you get your car back its completely different and then a problem happens and you have no idea where to start to try and fix it. When taking the steps in wanting to make your car more you..a little more of what you like it to be..take the time out to learn about it and what goes on with turbos and you should be fine. my .02

[lagos]

IF you are so perfect, why dont you do swaps for other people?

Because Im not interested in becoming a full time mechanic.

im not standing up for all shops, im not standing up for one, but your opinion on tuning shops is very bias and one sided.

Ive own my celica for about 7yrs now, and have had it swapped for about 4yrs. On a daily basis i get PM's, phone calls and AIM messages from people who are either planning a turbo project or in the middle of one. After a while, its very easy to spot a pattern of mistakes that leads to problems and people who end up selling or parting out. The guys who take the time to learn about their cars, do their own work, and dont cheap out, end up having success.

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 19, 2008 - 12:35 AM

[spolski07]

Ive own my celica for about 7yrs now, and have had it swapped for about 4yrs. On a daily basis i get PM's, phone calls and AIM messages from people who are either planning a turbo project or in the middle of one. After a while, its very easy to spot a pattern of mistakes that leads to problems and people who end up selling or parting out. The guys who take the time to learn about their cars, and dont cheap out, end up having success.

i am not disputing the not cheaping out part or the part that you know what your talking about
but as an example, i will use a local shop near me who has specialize in turboing cars, yes they do the normal honda's and acura's, but i have also seen off the wall cars like a geo prism and toyota corolla. talking with the owner, those cars did not return with problems and are still running. now again im not saying all shops are perfect, and the shop im talking about is by no means cheap, they charge a pretty penny, but do a very exelent job in the projects they work on.

[lagos]

Ive own my celica for about 7yrs now, and have had it swapped for about 4yrs. On a daily basis i get PM's, phone calls and AIM messages from people who are either planning a turbo project or in the middle of one. After a while, its very easy to spot a pattern of mistakes that leads to problems and people who end up selling or parting out. The guys who take the time to learn about their cars, and dont cheap out, end up having success.

i am not disputing the not cheaping out part or the part that you know what your talking about
but as an example, i will use a local shop near me who has specialize in turboing cars, yes they do the normal honda's and acura's, but i have also seen off the wall cars like a geo prism and toyota corolla. talking with the owner, those cars did not return with problems and are still running. now again im not saying all shops are perfect, and the shop im talking about is by no means cheap, they charge a pretty penny, but do a very exelent job in the projects they work on.

Thats cool man. Im not trying to turn this into a personal attack.
If you want to go to that shop because you think they will do a good install for you, then thats great. Just ask yourself what your going to do once everything is installed and you run into problems?

[spolski07]

Thats cool man. Im not trying to turn this into a personal attack.
If you want to go to that shop because you think they will do a good install for you, then thats great. Just ask yourself what your going to do once everything is installed and you run into problems?

id come here and try to find out what my problem could be, then take it back to the shop
never ment to be an arguement, you are one of the smarter members here and have helped a lot of us along the way.