drilled and sloted Options

[playr158]

yea dragon bro maybe you should just research cause Edo boy is correcto

[D-Man]

Edouphus you've got some valid points. However i am running performance disks on a DD with performance break pads.

Yes they'll go out faster
Yes it is using up more cash for regular maintenance
Yes it's worth every f-ing dime to me

if you live out in the woods or small towns where you don't come across many obstacles, then these are not for you. In the city i live in, 1/2 second is life/death. With all the construction; idiots; and other odd ball items laying around in the streets, Performance breaking is not a luxury, its a necessity.

I totaled my last car because i couldn't stop fast enough. And anyone who says that standard OEM disks have the same breaking capabilities as the performance rotors i'm using, is a G.D. lier. I'm sitting on performance, i have OEM sitting in my trunk. (witch are for sale by the way )

True it may be too much for some, but for others, it's worth every cent.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Apr 25, 2008 - 8:21 AM

[crandsberry]

Sorry if im beating a dead horse , but i am in the market for new front rotors too, so ive to throw in my 2 cents

It seems the big gripe about drilled and slotted rotors is that they decrease the frictional surface area for the pads to make contact with.

Isn’t that the same concept as those four and six puck clutch disks? By limiting the surface area you greatly increase the clamping force at four or six points, while sacrificing lifespan of the friction material and smooth engagement.

So
Drilled and/or Slotted = lots of bite but short lived pads


Also, holes and slots increase surface area of the rotor as a whole, therefore it must cool faster than a standard rotor.


whooo knooowws

[DEATH]

I'm not going to get involved in this arguement as i can see it from both sides of the fence. I do, however have a few practical points that should be considered:

1. My car is swapped with all the extra HP/Tq that brings and my OEM pads and rotors are perfectly sufficient [altho I do wish I had the 4 channel ABS my old 6GC had - that was superior braking power with confidence]
2. There is something to be said for aesthetics as well. Drilled and/or slotted rotors just plain look good behind some nice rims. It's kind of like painting your calipers. It makes it look like you have Brembo style brake upgrades regardless of whether or not they actually upgrade the stopping power. Some call that rice, some call it show - meh w/e. They do look good.
3. Aesthetics should never be favored over safety. If you're gonna go with my point #2 just make sure you get some from a reputable brand like Brembo etc. Don't get some off brand Ebay crap and trust your life/car to it.

That's just my .02.
Someone should run a search and talley up the shear amount of threads that have been generated on this subject over the life of 6gc.net - I think this one almost outnumbers the fabled 2jz swap foolishness that has haunted this site for far too long.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Apr 25, 2008 - 9:36 AM

[playr158]

Sorry if im beating a dead horse , but i am in the market for new front rotors too, so ive to throw in my 2 cents

It seems the big gripe about drilled and slotted rotors is that they decrease the frictional surface area for the pads to make contact with.

Isn’t that the same concept as those four and six puck clutch disks? By limiting the surface area you greatly increase the clamping force at four or six points, while sacrificing lifespan of the friction material and smooth engagement.

So
Drilled and/or Slotted = lots of bite but short lived pads


Also, holes and slots increase surface area of the rotor as a whole, therefore it must cool faster than a standard rotor.


whooo knooowws

at last 2 postings

B-R-A-K-E-S are different than clutches. reducing the surface area of the disk is not going to give you more bite at fewer places. it gives you less braking power in less places.
That and I'm really going to assume you don't know clutch theory and it doesn't apply to braking.

colder rotors = bad. BRAKING power works off of heat + friction. Drilling is PURELY ASCETIC there is no functional benefit from them, Porsche and Benz already said they do it for "style".

as well as where you live has ZERO to do with the type of BRAKE pads you need. CITY driving has to deal with INITIAL BITE of your brake pad. This is an issue that comes down to COMPOUND construction. You don't need "performance" BRAKEs to drive there, you need to not follow so close to people/drive slower in traffic.

but this is now a dead horse. Do your research on B-R-A-K-E-S and you will learn about how they work and what is effective. (Thus I mean research from scholarly documentation, not ricerRus.com )

here is a shot of our race car (front 3 series 4 door) @ the track
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6965/85sigiq4.jpg
look closely, solid rotors much faster than any swap here and endures much more braking demands.

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 25, 2008 - 9:45 AM

[DEATH]

at last 2 postings

Mine too? I still think my points are valid [and if you look I pretty much agree with you]

[playr158]

sorry not yours, you just posted in middle of me typing

i just found this, i took these off my celica a couple years ago

too bad its not higher def. with a better camera, you'd be able to see all the hair line cracking

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 25, 2008 - 11:04 AM

[D-Man]

[/thread]

We're never going to agree on this.

It's worth every dime to me.

to others it's not. I dont street race, but you'd be surprised when crap comes flying out of the back of some half ass closed branco with a dip sh!t Mexican driving with no idea that this latter just flew out at me, thinkin it's all good because he tired his damn wife-beater shirt on it. Remember that my wife is Hispanic, and so that makes my child Hispanic as well. but this mexican dude was a freakin retarted...

Back on topic...

If you want to go about saying it provides less breaking power and blah blah, then go for it. these are obviously not for you.

Dragondog; If you'd like to try it for yourself then you'll understand what i've been talking about. Or take the advice from the guys who dont have them. Its all your choice. Good luck making your decision Dragondog. (Is he even still lessening to this?)

This post has been edited by D-Man: Apr 25, 2008 - 10:49 AM

[Dragondog]

OK WILL AFTER READING all this i see a point to all this arguing sry EDO for all that but i am for 1 a racer i dont know much bout the mechanix behind it but i just love getting hocked up with parts putting them on and enjoying the win....brand is a big thing with me tho i dont want cheap parts but i would like to spend cheap....hence THE HOOKUP.....but i do understand all the points thax for the details and info but my mind is set for d/s disk....foe the fact im am a racer

[GriffGirl]

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It's a matter that technologically and scientifically speaking, for a regular street-legal car, D/S etc. rotors bare no advantage over blanks. What Edo said is exactly on the money - nowadays you don't have the problem of gasses building up and decreasing braking power. The technology has advanced beyond that; it's resolved. It's purely an aesthetic choice at this point if you get D/S rotors. I like how they look too.

Personally I've been going back and forth trying to decide what I'll go with for my own car. I've decided I'm going to go with the blanks; I'm opting for proven reliability over looking cool but not being sure if I got the right brand and if they're going to crack at the wrong time.

As for being a racer... well that just doesn't apply here. Unless your car is specifically a track car, it simply does not apply. And if it is a track car, that's just a whole unrelated topic.

[crandsberry]

at last 2 postings

B-R-A-K-E-S are different than clutches. reducing the surface area of the disk is not going to give you more bite at fewer places. it gives you less braking power in less places.
That and I'm really going to assume you don't know clutch theory and it doesn't apply to braking.

colder rotors = bad. BRAKING power works off of heat + friction. Drilling is PURELY ASCETIC there is no functional benefit from them, Porsche and Benz already said they do it for "style".

as well as where you live has ZERO to do with the type of BRAKE pads you need. CITY driving has to deal with INITIAL BITE of your brake pad. This is an issue that comes down to COMPOUND construction. You don't
need "performance" BRAKEs to drive there, you need to not follow so close to people/drive slower in traffic.

but this is now a dead horse. Do your research on B-R-A-K-E-S and you will learn about how they work and what is effective. (Thus I mean research from scholarly documentation, not ricerRus.com )

here is a shot of our race car (front 3 series 4 door) @ the track
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6965/85sigiq4.jpg
look closely, solid rotors much faster than any swap here and endures much more braking demands.

ok ok the clutch comparison was sketchy i agree, i was just thinkin "ehh friction material.. spinning metal disk.. kinda close!" They have similar jobs, just brakes take far more abuse.

playr ur right i didnt research brakes at all, i was just throwin **** out there, but now ive researched, touche.

This is a great article
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf10312.htm

and heres some math
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Dri...isk_Brakes.html

"braking power works off heat"????
Im going to save you some face and let you google the word "brake fade" before posting again


so if you read the articles turns out everyone is right

1) cross drill and slotted cool faster, great for racing (porsche and benz do it for style cause you dont race them but they are SPORTS CARS)

2) grip is dependent almost entirly on pads and rotor diameter

3) rotors crack because of ****ty metallurgy (bad casting), so buy expensive ones


This post has been edited by crandsberry: Apr 25, 2008 - 11:29 PM

[Edophus]

hey i think there is truth in the things most say,

but the point i'm trying to make is, you will pay twice as much for quality set of grooved/drilled discs as you would for quality plane, and the money you save, which will be significant if your buying good discs (most manufacturers will charge almost twice for adding grooves) then that money you save can go on better pad compound, the end result is far better brakes than if you spend the same money on groover/driller discs/lesser pads.

every trackday and race i go to, no one uses drilled, and some use grooved if there using expensive race compound pads. and i mean epensive, like $400 for a set of front pads, and $600 for the discs, the rest use plane discs and spend the extra on the pads.

The other thing is, proper grooved discs dont have anywhere near the same number of grooves as the heavily marketed "street" type grooved discs, simply because its tottally not needed. 4 or 5 grooves is plenty, any more is just eating your pad, the brake company are delighted cause your'll be back sooner....

dragondog, at least your honest, if you want the look then thats enough reason, i have no problem with that, just please spend the money on a well proven disc/pad combo, keep an eye on cheap discs for cracks.

[jason]

you need some heat to get them to optimal performance, brake fade is usually cause by brake fluid getting hot and losing its properties

blanks ok, slotted & vented are the best performance, as long as you upgrade the size.

same everything except rotors

12" vs 12" rotors one being solid, the other slotted, the solid is going to perform better.

12" blank vs 12.5" slotted, the slotted should be equal if not better PLUS much more pleasing to look at.

before anyone posts anything to shot this, or plyr's posts down, get some technical data to support it. not this car with slotted and drilled performs better than another car without.

here's an f1 car's brakes, notice, blank vented, these glow red hot turn after turn after turn and still provide best stopping without warping as easy ( i presume they are also some crazy material, but the engineering is the same )

[crandsberry]

great reading material

Tech article from Pop. hot rod mag

the brake bible i don't know how legit this author is, but its interesting

sry for my previous harsh response

The brake's only purpose is to convert kinetic energy into thermal energy and dissipating it. When your brakes are warm before stopping, its just that much less energy they're capable of removing. The disk can only handle so much heat at a time, and then you feel brake fade.

Back in the day, bake pads had resin in them that would vaporize when they were extremely hot, it could be trapped between the pad and the disk and limit friction. Cross drilling gave the gas a place to go, also lightened and weakened the disk

Now days, pads aren't made like that, no gases, but they do transfer heat to the caliper now, and like Jason said, this causes boiling brake fluid, which decreases hydraulic pressure. brake fade.

Either way, heat is the enemy

And your right jason, F1 brake disks and pads are made of carbon, which... ironically.. grips harder the hotter it gets

[playr158]

OK WILL AFTER READING all this i see a point to all this arguing sry EDO for all that but i am for 1 a racer i dont know much bout the mechanix behind it but i just love getting hocked up with parts putting them on and enjoying the win....brand is a big thing with me tho i dont want cheap parts but i would like to spend cheap....hence THE HOOKUP.....but i do understand all the points thax for the details and info but my mind is set for d/s disk....foe the fact im am a racer

If you WERE a RACER, you'd know FUNCTION > form.
But you know this comes from someone who spends time at the race shop fabricating parts for a bmw race car (we swept all our classes with 1st place last race , on SOLID rotors too! )

ok ok the clutch comparison was sketchy i agree, i was just thinkin "ehh friction material.. spinning metal disk.. kinda close!" They have similar jobs, just brakes take far more abuse.

playr ur right i didnt research brakes at all, i was just throwin **** out there, but now ive researched, touche.

This is a great article
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf10312.htm

and heres some math
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Dri...isk_Brakes.html

"braking power works off heat"????
Im going to save you some face and let you google the word "brake fade" before posting again

so if you read the articles turns out everyone is right

1) cross drill and slotted cool faster, great for racing (porsche and benz do it for style cause you dont race them but they are SPORTS CARS)

2) grip is dependent almost entirly on pads and rotor diameter

3) rotors crack because of ****ty metallurgy (bad casting), so buy expensive ones

a) glad you did some research, keep researching and learning

b)

"braking power works off heat"????
Im going to save you some face and let you google the word "brake fade" before posting again

I'm going to save you some face and let you use a dictionary or something and learn "operating temperature". Yes brake fade comes from TOO much heat and an incorrect/not up the the task brake system setup. But there are various points to a pad's functionality. When you are looking at pad compounds there is a factor of "cold bite" this means a cold brake pad. Brake pads just like your motor need to warm up in order to give full functioning and achieve their maximum potential. This is why you don't use track pads on the street. They need HEAT to get to their operating temperatures. So thank you yes braking power works off heat. Think of braking power as a function of a parabola. Initially braking not so good, temp comes up braking power is getting better, but too much heat and you get diminishing returns (brake fade)

c) on "#1" you failed again. Race cars DO NOT USE D/S rotors. Mercedes Benz is not a sports car either

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 27, 2008 - 5:54 AM

[ETNRIDER]

I have had my brakes and drilled & slotted rotors from Brake Planet for about 2 weeks now and I love them could see a good amount of difference in my braking but my old ones were bad. I'll let you all know if I have a problem.

They look sweet too!!!!

[markie]

i love reading this thread.. lol. some great minds in this community =)

anyways, are there any places that anyone would recommend as far as purchasing rotors and brakes?

thanks =)

[Dragondog]

ok well after putting on my d/s disks i thought id compare and well they seem to work just as good except for when it rains, with my solids my pads would not grip as good when wet and in high water but the d/s rotors worked as if there was no water.....the d/s disks stop better when wet but other then that i fells the same.....oh yea and there is i diff sound when breaking and i like the looks.......looks good with my blue calipers