Just found out a "Friend" I work with is a sex offender, 2nd Conviction for extreme child molestation Options

[DEATH]

I'm so messed up in the head right now. I feel like killing this man myself and I know nothing of the child other than she was two years old and this is his second conviction. A little background:
I work at a machine/fabrication shop where I'm the head of the engineering department. That means I and the people under me design equipment and parts for equipment that performs a specific function. All of which means I'm out on the shop floor very often, making sure the parts and assemblies I design work properly before they go into mass production. One of the guys I worked pretty closely with in our weld room over the last 8 years or so was on parole for some felony or another - heck most of these guys are. It's just the sort trade that employs alot of ex-cons [I'd say there are more ex-cons than not in the male population out here in the shop]. Now granted, I didn't hang with the guy outside of work, I never had beers with him or any of that. The most I ever saw outside of work was once when he drove his car into a ditch I helped him out, drove him to work. But he seemed like this really nice old man who, yeah maybe fcuked up bad when he was younger and now was just living the rest of his life the best he could. He had several embarresing visits from his Parole Officer up here - he took them in stride, didn't get upset or overly embarresed. He seemed repentative and content to live out his last few years peacefully.
This morning I find out he won't be coming back to work anymore because he was caught sexually molesting a 2yo little girl. Nevermind the question how did he get a little girl like that alone - I have no idea of the details. Sounds to me like some parents need to be going to jail too but that's another question and I have no way of judging that situation [It's just I'm a parent and I know noone is ever allowed time like that around my children with out my knowledge and supervision]. I also found out that that was the felony he was previously convicted of and had served his time for [And I hope those of you who don't support the death penalty for sex crimes are proud of yourselves - I'm sure this little girl would thank you for your kindness if she could. Sarcasm, obviously. If we had executed him the first time this happened another little girl wouldn't have had her life ruined by this horrible act.].
As I said - It's got me messed up. I'm usually a great judge of character but I never saw this coming. I think that if I had found this out before the police did it would be me in jail for murder and him 6 feet under ATM. And I don't feel in the least bit remorseful about that.
These fcuking bastards should all be killed to protect the world's children from them. That's my opinion.
Please discuss this. Please do so maturely. Please respect other's opinions.
Mod's - I'm sorry in advance if this must be closed - I just don't know any other group this diverse that I can get other opinions from that will be different from my own.

[bloodrain]

that really sucks, lets just hope the little girl is too young to remember.

[presure2]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

[D-Man]

x2 on keeping this mature and controlled.

This is a sick sad twist. Matt, you know i've got a 5month old daughter, and how much i freak out about new baby sitters! I dont know how well you knew the man, and the fact that you were blindsided by his personality (and was previously believed to be a reasonably "good" guy) Does not exempt the fact that what he has done is horrible. That makes 2 little girls lives ruined by this man. IMO that makes him a monster.

I have to admit, you are right about the death penalty, there is no room in society for people like this. There is no reason to molest children; other than being so messed up in the head, that there is no return. At witch point they should be treated like a dog with rabies. Put them down before they hurt someone else.

I also would like to know what the heck was going on with the parents of this child. How do you leave your baby with someone with a record like this? When i'm visiting family i keep my daughter in my eye-sight at ALL TIMES! i never let her leave my or my wife's attention. How can they figure to leave the little girl with a confirmed child molester, close the doors and walk away? I'd like to know what happened on their end, Depending on how this came to be, I believe that the parents should possibly face punishment as well. Suppose they left the Molester in care as a baby-sitter arrangement, the parents should DEFF face punishment. That is endangering their own child.

Dude, This is fcuked up, I agree, 100%. And someone that you knew at that, makes it all the worse; (especially knowing now, when you should have knew before) Is he going to go back into jail? Or has he just lost his job? (I've been in that welding booth, there are plenty of ways that "accidents" can happen, and those doors are thick enough that no-one would hear a thing ) j/k ( kidding to the minimal extent )

Seriously, there should (atleast) be a greater identification markers for convected child molesters. the red or blue sign in the yard isn't enough. The DL should say CHILD MOLESTER all over it. The sign in the yard should be the size of a free-way bilboard and list everything he's done. Seriously, Molestation is something that has to be planed, and you have to be one sick individual to go thru with it. Death penelty is the ultimate goal, but we should deff up the warning indicators in the mean time.

[DEATH]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

Thanks Pressure. See I know we have mature adults from over seas on here as well and I know their opinions on the death penalty often widely differ from our own. This is one of those situations, I beleive, that shows the rehabilitation system has just allowed for another innocent to be harmed. I'd just like to see what those that normally would say "But we can't just kill them" think now. Someone took that attitude and now a little girl's life has been ruined in the most horrible of ways. I know girls who were molested as a child. For some reason the Goth community is full of twisted adult females who can trace their sexual preferences right back to some haenous act such as this. So I'm a little biased - I can see where this leads.
I'd like to hear from some of our friends here who normally oppose capital punishment. What are their thoughts now that we see it most certainly should have been the solution to this man's problems.
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to hear those other views. I just hope we can keep this civil and mature [I think we can].

D-Man - I knew this one would touch you personally. I already knew that you're oppinion would be the same as mine. Thank you for articulating a very good interum solution. I think until we can get the proper death penalties installed, you're ideas would be the next best thing.

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

[Legit94GT]

That is ridiculous, people like that make me physically ill.

After watching the Boondock Saints me and my dad came up with the idea that when people get executed(which doesnt happen nearly enough) it should be like ebay. You pay money to the state, or county, to get to me the guy who pushes the button, or flips the switch, or if you have enough money you get 1 hour alone with them, if we did that every state would have more than enough money to run the state, just my .02

I also work in a major fabrication work area, and there are some sketch people there for sure, i think once convicted of a crime like that they should be ****ing branded on the forehead so everyone knows...

The world seldom makes sense, and when it does, for a brief instant in time, humans find another way to **** it up worse that before.

Pressure i feel you there, i dont have kids but i do have a sister and a girl, and if some thing happened to them... lets just say whoever did it wouldnt make it to jail...

Sorry to hear about that, when stuff like that happens close to you it will shake you up for awhile, just try to remember that he doesnt deserve to live, and you do, so make the most of it while you got it...

[Shink]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

I think you'll find I'm not too wrong in saying that the European perspective is very similar. Sex crimes are some of the very worst crimes imaginable simply because of the innocence of the victim and the f***ed up nature of the crime. I, myself, am utterly appalled and saddened by this and can imagine that this has really hurt you - as a father, especially.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

That is the rational side of it. But I know that just like you, and everyone else I expect, I'd want to kill the ****er, too

Edit: just wanted to add - I do recognize that not all sex criminals are mentally ill - some people are just plain bad.

This post has been edited by Shink: Jul 18, 2008 - 10:35 AM

[D-Man]

nd the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

I have to say, That makes a lot of sense. But we cant go "talking" to people one by one, There has to be a way of putting the idea's out of people's heads, w/o requiring a victim first.

[Shink]

There has to be a way of putting the idea's out of people's heads, w/o requiring a victim first.

Exactly. But is it the death penalty? Rational, sane people respond to a threat such as the death penalty. If sex crimes are the result of a kind of insanity, then it's not clear they'll see the death penalty as a threat.

As I understand it, the need to get caught is what motivates some people to commit a crime. Serial killers, for example: getting caught and being killed for it is part of the reason (thrill?) of killing.

It sounds wrong to say it, but more than likely the only people who know what they need to NOT commit a sex crime is sex criminals.

[DEATH]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

First let me say I was not trying to call anyone out when I said that. It just seems that the masses in Europe tend to be alot more on the prevention side of the solution than here where more favor capital punishment. Obviously both sides of the pond have people on both sides of the fence.

Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

But can't you see my point in this? We tried already to rehabilitate this man for similar crimes he was previously convicted of and what do we get for our humane treatment? What do we get for the trouble of taking the moral high road? We get another innocent victim. Another potentially ruined life.
If we had killed this bastard the first time there would be no second time. Plain, simple, honest and direct. Positive solution - Problem solved.

And another thing I'd like to say is thank you to everyone who is taking the time out to talk this over rationally with me - it's helping my mental state cause I've been anguishing all morning about whether I should have known and done something about it. I'm intelligent enough to know that that's a stupid way to think. Who am I to have done anything to prevent? But my heart rarely bleeds for anyone or anything - it does for this poor little girl. I hope they get him in prison [Prison justice FTMFW].
I am getting calmer through this thread tho - slowly. Let's hear all sides - anyone else have an opinion?

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 11:24 AM

[saleeka]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

I really appreciate what you have posted, because I feel it is a very educated opinion, and one that looks to truly solve the problem. I really don't want to go into the sex offender side of this equation because I don't wish to have my point misunderstood, but as for the death penalty, I see it as a very extreme measure that should not be used in most circumstances. I've noticed that a few people have commented that we don't use the death penalty enough. I don't hold that same view for a couple reasons.

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved. Nobody wins, because putting to death the offender doesn't reverse the crime that was committed. A Criminal's family has to experience the pain of losing a family member because of someone else's actions, just as the family of the victim. As expensive as many say it is to incarcerate someone for the rest of their life, I don't think many realize how much money is spent on those who travel through the court system of appeals on death row. The difference isn't as large as some would like to believe.

I'm not saying that there is an easy answer to problems like these, as we still have issues like this that need solving. With our population growing, crimes like this are only going to become more visible, so I really think the focus should be understanding why people do things like this, so we can then learn how to rehabilitate offenders of many different crimes (if possible). Because the focus isn't on integrating felons back into our society, I could see why many criminals feel as if they have nothing left to loose, and have no real incentive to change. All of this may sound like a far off and distant dream, but I really believe that you aren't going to stop violent crime and death by using the same methods we are today.

This post has been edited by saleeka: Jul 18, 2008 - 11:57 AM

[manphibian]

The death penalty is an alien concept really over here. But i would have absolutely no problem at all if was introduced here for such offences against children.

It is imo the worst crime that could possibly be committed, against someone so completely innocent, and unable to defend themselves. Far worse than any murder, and with worse consequences in many cases.

Sickening. I would love to see these people executed.

and i do feel that the death penalty would act as an effective deterrent in many cases, from what i have seen about paedophiles, many of them seem fairly normal, they're not all mentally ill people who don't care about being executed, as proven here, it's hard to pick them out for preventative treatments until it's too late and they've done it

makes me sad

[D-Man]

It sounds wrong to say it, but more than likely the only people who know what they need to NOT commit a sex crime is sex criminals.

Then we stick all of em in a lab and study them until we find their "kriptonite" (and then gas them all.)

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

But can't you see my point in this? We tried already to rehabilitate this man for similar crimes he was previously convicted of and what do we get for our humane treatment? What do we get for the trouble of taking the moral high road? We get another innocent victim. Another potentially ruined life.
If we had killed this bastard the first time there would be no second time. Plain, simple, honest and direct. Positive solution - Problem solved.

True, But i believe shink is saying, that it would be more efficient to have never happend the first time. If we can figure out a way to make the child molesters NOT molest children in the first place, then we wont have to "put them down" later. That would be the Ideal solution, so that no children get molested in the first place.

And another thing I'd like to say is thank you to everyone who is taking the time out to talk this over rationally with me - it's helping my mental state cause I've been anguishing all morning about whether I should have known and done something about it. I'm intelligent enough to know that that's a stupid way to think. Who am I to have done anything to prevent? But my heart rarely bleeds for anyone or anything - it does for this poor little girl. I hope they get him in prison [Prison justice FTMFW].
I am getting calmer through this thread tho - slowly.

All of our hearts go out to this poor little girl. At 2yrs old? She has done nothing to have that happen to her. She's just a baby, barely able to walk; basic words, still eating dry cheerios as she can't handle really heavy foods yet. a BABY!! This is horrible. But Speaking of "Prison Justice" there are plenty of men who are locked up, That have children of their own, that love to put their hands on these monsters. I read something somewhere that said people convicted of Child Molestation, Rapist, and Kidnappers are the most frequently "Endangered" and most often injured/killed. Even convicts know that you don't mess with children, and that No means No. (by all means there are other things that will happen to him that are also FTMFW) I hope he shows up on the news soon.

I think that's the point that Shink is aslo pointing out, there is research done that shows these people have something wrong in their head. How do we fix that, and put the idea into their head that they do NOT do these sick acts?

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:14 PM

[Shink]

from what i have seen about paedophiles, many of them seem fairly normal, they're not all mentally ill people who don't care about being executed, as proven here, it's hard to pick them out for preventative treatments until it's too late and they've done it

makes me sad

I'm going to stay out of this thread after this...I've said my bit

But...

Many mental illnesses do not show. How much of someone's life do we actually see? I bet you have secrets, could keep secrets, could have a part of your life that is entirely private. We normally judge someone based on instinct and extremely limited information. More often than not, the reason that this judgment is correct is simply that most people are relatively ordinary. Many people with non-criminal mental diseases - such as depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia - are able to hide them for many years from people very close to them.

Therefore, some people might be properly mentally ill and we'd have no idea...especially if we force them to hide it. And yes, it is extremely hard to pick them out for preventative treatment.

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

But I am reminded of a documentary I saw about a man who molested his own kids because of a brain tumor. He had the tumor removed, the need to touch his kids went away. Then he started doing it again and they looked..the tumor had grown back. Some collateral damage is allowable, but this kind of story does add a certain twist to it.

And now I'm done. Really.

This post has been edited by Shink: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:16 PM

[Legit94GT]

Then we stick all of em in a lab and study them until we find their "kriptonite" (and then gas them all.)

LOL

In a few years they will have the whole genome mapped(if they dont already) and will be able to determine what genetic sequence makes people more prone to do such things, then we should test everyone when they are born and people who have "bad" sequences are closely watch for their mental/genetic illness... or exterminate them...(ha ha that would never ever happen)

About the death penalty... thats it, it is a penalty...its called capital PUNISHMENT, i dont think most criminals really think that much of it, as far as it being a real deterent, i really doubt it... But when the crime is so terrible, some people need to lose their life, i think that getting gang raped by convicts in jail for a few years then getting killed is a good punishment.

I dont think any criminal would be like "oh wait, i cant do that cause if i get caught i'll get the needle!!!! nah i just wont get caught:)"

Glad to see this convo staying well structured, and that people from the other side of the pond are speaking up, what are your guys laws over there as far as the death penaly goes?

[DEATH]

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved.

It's thinking like this that allowed the second child above to be harmed. I thank you for your opinion and respect it. I do want people to voice them but I'm sorry I can't agree. Some dogs deserve/need to be put down.
And let me repeat what I've said a million times:
I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life". IMO a human needs to prove his worth - there is no inherrant "Value of human life" any more than there is in animal/plant life. That's all a bunch of humanitarian BS thought up by learned humans. It goes against basic human nature and it just isn't true. This man was a welder for a living, he has no children of his own and he had nothing else to offer society except the molestation of children - no inherrant "value of human life" [Except his skills and deeds as a welder]. His life was not worth rehabilitating and he proved it by offending again despite societies best efforts to change him.

I'm going to stay out of this thread after this...I've said my bit

I hope it was not anything I said. I value your well thought out opinions and contributions to this thread.

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

This is the most intelligent thing said here in this thread. It's very true and I hope for all of societies sake that we someday find a way to achieve this. But for now, in this day with these means - the only hope is, at the very minimum, life without parole. Execution would be much more appropriate.



This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:42 PM

[SlickRick]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

[SlickRick]

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

This is the most intelligent thing said here in this thread. It's very true and I hope for all of societies sake that we someday find a way to achieve this. But for now, in this day with these means - the only hope is, at the very minimum, life without parole. Execution would be much more appropriate.

wow that is got to be the most ridiculous thing in the thread. I don't know what's worse that fact that Shink says it or you agree. There will never be a swift or cheap death penalty, I guarantee it. How can u prevent sex crimes? I think your best chance of preventing these types of thing starts with things like better schools, better prenatal care and infant care for the poor. Sometimes these people are sick in the head from a childhood of parent that do the same or their brains not developing due to a bad upbringing. Wow u guys want to throw these people in caskets but never address the real issue, typical torch and pitch fork reactions.

This post has been edited by SlickRick: Jul 18, 2008 - 1:03 PM

[lubu]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

I think that death penalty is too easy on them, that kind of ppl should be tied up, kick them in the balls, put honey on them and let the ants go lose.

Then jail them for life and carry out the above procedures everymonth!!

But seriously. If a person knows that they'll face life imprison then they will think twice abt what they're gonna do, coz life imprison IMO is worse than death penalty.

[SlickRick]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

I think that death penalty is too easy on them, that kind of ppl should be tied up, kick them in the balls, put honey on them and let the ants go lose.

Then jail them for life and carry out the above procedures everymonth!!

But seriously. If a person knows that they'll face life imprison then they will think twice abt what they're gonna do, coz life imprison IMO is worse than death penalty.

thats the thing IF it did prevent crimes then fine do it. BUT IT DOES NOT!!! One of the biggest studies of the 20th century takes all the data found on the crime rates in states with the death penalty and its ALWAYS higher in states with the death penalty, its even breaks it down crime by crime and county by county and its without exception, HIGHER. And any criminal psychologist will tell that it will never work as a deterrent bcuz all crimes like this r committed by people that either dont care of the consequences or dont think they will get caught. Its like a sick drug to them they just feel the need to do these sick things without rhyme or reason. So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.