Toyota VS Ford Options

[tomazws]

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the ”Rowing Team Quality First Program” with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, The End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years trying to move all of its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results for 2007:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Senior managers at Ford are still scratching their heads.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.

This post has been edited by tomazws: Nov 13, 2008 - 12:51 PM

[richee3]

Yep, I know for a fact that it's true. I've found (and now that I'm talking about it, I'm gonna go find it again just because I love that video) a video of a Supra on Youtube where they swapped a Chevy truck trans into the car. I'll see if I can't find it again. I have even heard of some turbocharged cars using transmissions from trucks from even the 50's just because of how they were geared. But apparently the auto trans allows you to keep your foot in the throttle and never lose boost pressure but I'm not sure how that works.

Ah! Got it. Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a mkIV Supra using a Chevrolet automatic transmission. Listen to how many times it shifts- only once

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ian-Pol...-872_150274.htm

Don't let your peepees swell too much.

This post has been edited by richee3: Dec 11, 2008 - 1:18 AM

[DEATH]

That TRD body kit does dress up the Cavvi a little bit, but given the choice between a "TRD Toyota Cavalier" or my Celica, I think the choice is clear.

Well duh - that wasn't my point - it does look much better than the average Cavi tho right?

So if somebody could dumb it down a lot and explain how an auto decreases turbo lag over a REALLY fast shifter in a manual, I'd love to hear it PM me.

It doesn't - it just takes out the human element - the capability of mistake. A good driver can still slightly out perform the auto - but only just barely. The auto just deletes a variable.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Dec 11, 2008 - 1:15 AM

[richee3]

That TRD body kit does dress up the Cavvi a little bit, but given the choice between a "TRD Toyota Cavalier" or my Celica, I think the choice is clear.

Well duh - that wasn't my point - it does look much better than the average Cavi tho right?

So if somebody could dumb it down a lot and explain how an auto decreases turbo lag over a REALLY fast shifter in a manual, I'd love to hear it PM me.

It doesn't - it just takes out the human element - the capability of mistake. A good driver can still slightly out perform the auto - but only just barely. The auto just deletes a variable.

For the first part of that, touche, sir! It DOES look much better than the average Cavi. For the second part, thanks! I've had about 4 people tell me that and not one person has been able to explain to me in terms that I understood how the auto could outperform a manual.

[DEATH]

nvm

This post has been edited by DEATH: Dec 11, 2008 - 1:51 AM

[playr158]

errr no auto decrease turbo lag and increases performance in turbo cars not because it takes out the human element.


Automatics are better in drag racing with boosted cars because they don't loose power between shifts. torque is consistently applied to the motor and there is no loss between shifts. You can stay at WOT the entire time. In a manual transmission no matter how hard and fast you shift, there is a powerless free point where clutch is in and the motor is allowed to drop and blow off boost. Automatics don't do this.

thats why.

a 5 spd transmission vs an auto (all else being equal) Turbo supra will lose 99.9% of the time to the auto.
a human can't get anywhere near the speed of the modern day shift speed of a auto. That is unless you are down to milliseconds in shift time.

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 11, 2008 - 7:39 AM

[njccmd2002]

wow, interesting info. so why is it that manuals are more popular for tuners.

[Helix]

Not all automatics are the same... You can't compare a 10 year old auto transmission to a state of the art Ferrari F1 or Dual clutch one (semi-automatic)
Latest autos have "billions of settings" to adjust it to your driving "mood". Older transmissions used to take ages to shift and more important: you wouldn't want the gearbox to upshift when you'r around a corner building revs... That said, they would never miss a shift though...
I believe that an experienced driver could easily outperform the older autos. As for the newer high tech ones, it is a whole different story...

P.S. I believe the gearboxes they use on drag races are sequential and not automatic... I can't believe an automatic can take all than torque...

You can do a search at youtube for drag race in car videos and see that most drive stick and have a shift light.

This post has been edited by Helix: Dec 11, 2008 - 9:36 AM

[playr158]

you can put very very strong tq converters into an automatic.

but manual transmissions are suited to racing that involves turns where as autos wouldn't perform as well here.

autos > for drag
MT > for turns


SMG & DSG > all

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 11, 2008 - 9:28 AM

[creis]

A friend and engineer at boeing told me once, the only major diffarance between the big car copmanies is not the designes or what company degisned what part of the car but the level of tolarance in manufacturing. meaning how close the car was built to the original design (ex. machined within .001 of a inch to the original design or within .00001 of an inch to the original.) I cant remember the exact numbers but ford had the biggest margin followed by dodge with GM having the stricktest/best. point being that just because 2 cars are the same design does not mean there the same quality.

Just food for though.