3sge and 3sgte Options

[Dragondog]

its been a wile since iv posted.....been reseaching and readin alot...any way iv been thinking and readin and learning.....bout vvti vtec and so on and i love the power hondas have when vtech kicks in......and as far as i know beams is the only vvti that will fit in our cars...(unless the 20 valve vvt 4age fits i dont know ill check it out).......i get told by most of you that cuz the beams is high compression its not good to boost it.........that if u want boost go wit a 3sgte......but i like the extra kick the vvti has.........like hondas vtec run from 10:1 and up and yet they still boost it and cuz of that they r out there spanking GTs and so on........i dont see y u cant run bout 12-15 psi boost on a beams.....i dont see why u cant go with dished pistons thicker head gasket (metal) and what not to lower compression so you can boost more......along with a meth/water kit.....witch will allow u to crank the boost even more from my understanding......from what it sounds to me is the beams can be more powerful then the 3sgte.......altho if u boost a beams it becomes a 3sgte anyway it becomes a (*vvti 3sgte*).......beams 2.0 11:1 compression......just like the honda b series vetec.....b18 (1.8) 11+:1.........put the vtec head on a b20 (9:1) like most do and you got urself a b20 (2.0) vtec (10+:1) slap a turbo on it 12-15 boost and wave good bye as u leave them all behind.........hard to find aftermarket parts? dont matter.....wut aftermarket part would u wannt put on ur vvti?......short stroke crank? pistons? rods? all easy to find since there in a 3s block.......cams i wouldnt change(may throw vvti off).....valves? maybe ....not impossible to upgrade......turbo headers? if you know what your doing not hard to costomize or find...so many ppl frown on turboing the beams and frown for the wrong reasons such as( has high comp., rods wont hold, intake wont hold(((witch btw the intake will its been teasted, but just in case the weilds can b reinforced...ect ect))))....**NOW the main question is will the vvti on the beams work with that kind of load or will it just be useless?** *will it really be a vvti 3sgte or just another 3sgte with a beams valve cover?*.......any input or questions i would love to hear and know.....so i can learn more.......

This post has been edited by Dragondog: Dec 5, 2009 - 7:08 AM

[presure2]

you CAN.
it just takes more money and effort than just bolting in a turbo motor from the factory.
you can boost just about ANY motor, its a matter of if you can TUNE it to handle the boost.

[Dragondog]

so the vvti will handle it?

if so i would much rather have a beams over a 3sgte......my plans were to overhaul the 3sgte any ways....most would be n the block......i would go dished pistons and then on the head go with longer valves (in some way or form)....

This post has been edited by Dragondog: Dec 5, 2009 - 7:44 AM

[Penkka]

The 3S-GTE is available with vvt-i, but it was sold on Tom´s Altezza 280T. 280bhp, turbo, hence the name.

The thing about that engine and JZ-engines with vvt-i, they get more rubberband-like, and the true grunt of power is lost.
Really not my thing.

[Mstoochn]

prefer bigger displacement over vvti stroked 5s or 3s
but what if you could do both!!!

hi comp seems to be a trait for vvti engines, im not sure how drastic lowering it to 9:1 or 8.5:1 would be if you wanted to make a ton of power safetly

This post has been edited by Mstoochn: Dec 5, 2009 - 2:10 PM

[Dragondog]

prefer bigger displacement over vvti stroked 5s or 3s
but what if you could do both!!!

hi comp seems to be a trait for vvti engines, im not sure how drastic lowering it to 9:1 or 8.5:1 would be if you wanted to make a ton of power safetly

yea i was woundering the same thing as far as compression goes...... vvti is all bout high compression thats were its power comes from....but if you turbo it?

also to help me keep learning........whuts the benifits on less strokes and bigger strokes?...........they both chang the compression right......less will give more hp?........bigger gives more torque?

This post has been edited by Dragondog: Dec 5, 2009 - 3:39 PM

[Mstoochn]

large stroke doesn't effect compresion, its the pistons and HG thinkness that will factor those.
the only way i could see an effective vvti turbo with high compression would require a large water injection nozzle to keep knock from effecting it at say... 9.5: or 10:1
generally the larger displacement helps with low end torque

high comp is ideal for N/A engines where as low comp is great to sustain higher boost safety

This post has been edited by Mstoochn: Dec 5, 2009 - 8:34 PM

[Smaay]

i have a 2001 Celica GT-S with VVTL-i and i can tell you first hand the 2ZZ-GE engine LOVES BOOST!!!!!! like Pressure said, its all in the tuning. the 2ZZ-GE has 11.5:1 compression. as long as the tune is good you can push 10psi and make close to 300HP on it. so if you want to boost a Beams, i say GO FOR IT

[Dragondog]

i have a 2001 Celica GT-S with VVTL-i and i can tell you first hand the 2ZZ-GE engine LOVES BOOST!!!!!! like Pressure said, its all in the tuning. the 2ZZ-GE has 11.5:1 compression. as long as the tune is good you can push 10psi and make close to 300HP on it. so if you want to boost a Beams, i say GO FOR IT

exactly....from what i read vvti is great with boost....vvti will spool the turbo up faster...from wat i read

[Penkka]

i have a 2001 Celica GT-S with VVTL-i and i can tell you first hand the 2ZZ-GE engine LOVES BOOST!!!!!! like Pressure said, its all in the tuning. the 2ZZ-GE has 11.5:1 compression. as long as the tune is good you can push 10psi and make close to 300HP on it. so if you want to boost a Beams, i say GO FOR IT

exactly....from what i read vvti is great with boost....vvti will spool the turbo up faster...from wat i read

Techwise yes. But the difference between Vvt-i and non vvt-i 1JZ-GTE is that the one with vvt-i is not as wanted, as the power comes out from it really rubberband stylish. Theres no kick, and the car feels more lazy..

[Mstoochn]

please remember with higher compression your safe boost margins drop a fair bit!!!
Yes a 3s-ge beams would run great around factory boost levels (9-12psi) but if your looking for serious power you are creating ALOT of heat.

something important to mention

[bccentaur3]

Good luck on 10 psi with the beams intake manifold. That thing isn't built for boost. You should spend some time on the mr2oc board and see what they do with a 5sgte set-up or even a stroked 3sgte. Unless you like the 10:1 compression ratio for off boost drivability. I don't know about you but I like the 5sgte set-up. Its a torque monster.

[Dragondog]

Good luck on 10 psi with the beams intake manifold. That thing isn't built for boost. You should spend some time on the mr2oc board and see what they do with a 5sgte set-up or even a stroked 3sgte. Unless you like the 10:1 compression ratio for off boost drivability. I don't know about you but I like the 5sgte set-up. Its a torque monster.

theres a guy on the beams fourm and the manifold held up to 32 or so psi




i read a bit on your 5sgte.....was just woundering what heads and blocks are inerchangeable.....wat i read seemed that the 5s would need some drilling for water passage what bout the originals? do the normal holes on the 5s also line up wit the ge head....or do they all line up just diff size

This post has been edited by Dragondog: Dec 6, 2009 - 10:55 PM

[bccentaur3]

It all depends on what head you are using. Some guys get super lucky and everything lines up just fine. In my case I used a 1st gen 3sgte head. I COULD have gotten away with a 5sfe metal head gasket, and just modify the head gasket a little and everything would have lined up with no drilling into the block to mate that head to my block. But I decided on a TTE HG and drilled the block.

You won't know if everything lines up until you get the head. In my case the original passages I had to slot some more to match the HG I was using. Plus with the HG laid ontop of the block You will defiantly see where you need to drill and slot.

[Ted95]

this is a verrryy good argument Dragon.. (altho manny clarified its possible in doing so) ive wondered the same thing .. bc it is true, the honda boys have the vtec and boost alll the time and like u said leaves us GTs behind but in therory a vvti 3sgte would sound like it would b a beasttt!!! good research btw too .. enjoyed reading it

[Edophus]

really if you want the ultimate s series engine you start with the beams, the vvti is worth the extra hassle because as said it will spool the turbo up sooner, you can get away with using a smaller turbo then a non vvti 3s and still make the same power but over a much wider powerband. This gives an idea of the potential.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams/Toyota-MR2...urbo-beams.html