ST engine swap, 4agze, or 4age, or 3sgte Options

[96stgreendemon]

thinking about a potential swap, was looking at a 4agze and wondering if it would be the easiest motor to swap with the st, or just put the head on my 7afe block, or put the 4age head on my block, or just swap it for a 3sgte, which would mean new mounts, harness, ecu, exhaust, and tranny, thoughts?

[richee3]

4AGZE. Uses the same motor mounts. It's kinda like swapping a 3S-GTE into a GT. It's one of the easiest swaps. Do it!

[96stgreendemon]

what about the wireing and all of that, does it use the same ecu and sensors? what about the manifold and downpipe? help lol

[soulshadow]

Use the search button and do the swap yourself you will see what you need. Personally stick to a 7A less headaches. The gain of a 4agze is the same as slapping on a turbo for your 7A.

[Mstoochn]

Use the search button and do the swap yourself you will see what you need. Personally stick to a 7A less headaches. The gain of a 4agze is the same as slapping on a turbo for your 7A.

y is there one of these threads every week... and often the SAME peopl asking all over again

[96stgreendemon]

^^ how about you use the search button and look to see the last time i posted a thread about an engine swap????? just humor me and find it

[_Jim_]

A GEN3 3sgte swap wont be much more work then a 4agze swap, but will reap a lot more benefits. It has a better performance base, solid swap information, plenty of tech help, and will outperform the 4agze/7afte is every aspect.

As stated, swapping in a GEN3 3sgte will only require the use of the GT passenger mount, an S series transmission (S54 or E153), and you will be required to drill a hole for the passenger mount, (Very self explanatory once you actually see it in person and setup the mount.) From there, you install your clutch, replace the standard gaskets, tune up, do the very small amount of wiring required (or pay someone to do it) and your good to go.

[CelicaST_CALI]

No offense to jim but the 4agze swap is A LOT easier in a ST than a 3sgte swap in terms of money and time.If ur not shooting for over 225 u can use the same tranny and mounts with no problem.A 3sgte swap into a ST is gonna be about 2500$ more thana 4agze swap also. Jim is def right that the 3s is a better engine,but it costs a lot more and is a much bigger job to install.


The 4agze has forged pistons stock and a few other things(i can name if u want) that are better than puting on a 4age head to your 7afe.

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Jan 1, 2010 - 11:01 PM

[_Jim_]

No offense to jim but the 4agze swap is A LOT easier in a ST than a 3sgte swap in terms of money and time.If ur not shooting for over 225 u can use the same tranny and mounts with no problem.A 3sgte swap into a ST is gonna be about 2500$ more thana 4agze swap also. Jim is def right that the 3s is a better engine,but it costs a lot more and is a much bigger job to install.


The 4agze has forged pistons stock and a few other things(i can name if u want) that are better than puting on a 4age head to your 7afe.

No offense taken Bud. You are correct that a 4agze would be a cheaper swap into a 7a 5 speed equipt car, but the OP didnt make mention of money, just the easy of the swap. So at that point (with both swaps being basically equal in difficulty), the 3s is the clear winner. If money is an issue...and you dont have plans of 300+whp, then the 4agze could be a nice swap.

[CelicaST_CALI]

No offense to jim but the 4agze swap is A LOT easier in a ST than a 3sgte swap in terms of money and time.If ur not shooting for over 225 u can use the same tranny and mounts with no problem.A 3sgte swap into a ST is gonna be about 2500$ more thana 4agze swap also. Jim is def right that the 3s is a better engine,but it costs a lot more and is a much bigger job to install.


The 4agze has forged pistons stock and a few other things(i can name if u want) that are better than puting on a 4age head to your 7afe.

No offense taken Bud. You are correct that a 4agze would be a cheaper swap into a 7a 5 speed equipt car, but the OP didnt make mention of money, just the easy of the swap. So at that point (with both swaps being basically equal in difficulty), the 3s is the clear winner. If money is an issue...and you dont have plans of 300+whp, then the 4agze could be a nice swap.

But they arent?With the 4agze u leave the tranny/axles there,and im sure u know its a job to get that sucker out.Also u dont have to even replace the mounts,i know its not to hard,but its just ONE more thing that has to be done.But i do agree if money is no problem than more the 3sgte route for sure.

[_Jim_]

No offense to jim but the 4agze swap is A LOT easier in a ST than a 3sgte swap in terms of money and time.If ur not shooting for over 225 u can use the same tranny and mounts with no problem.A 3sgte swap into a ST is gonna be about 2500$ more thana 4agze swap also. Jim is def right that the 3s is a better engine,but it costs a lot more and is a much bigger job to install.


The 4agze has forged pistons stock and a few other things(i can name if u want) that are better than puting on a 4age head to your 7afe.

No offense taken Bud. You are correct that a 4agze would be a cheaper swap into a 7a 5 speed equipt car, but the OP didnt make mention of money, just the easy of the swap. So at that point (with both swaps being basically equal in difficulty), the 3s is the clear winner. If money is an issue...and you dont have plans of 300+whp, then the 4agze could be a nice swap.

But they arent?With the 4agze u leave the tranny/axles there,and im sure u know its a job to get that sucker out.Also u dont have to even replace the mounts,i know its not to hard,but its just ONE more thing that has to be done.But i do agree if money is no problem than more the 3sgte route for sure.

LOL, so you are telling me if you were going to do a 4agze swap into a 7a currently equipt with 5 speed transmission you would separate the transmission in the engine bay?....of course not. So at that point, you are removing the tranny and motor as one assembly, and the axles must be removed for this anyway...so that is wash. Basically the only real difference is the mounts, and we all know how easy they are to change. And compared to the amount of work involved in a swap of ANY kind, the added work/expense of changing out a couple mounts falls by the wayside.

[CelicaST_CALI]

o sorry jim ive never done it haha,i just thought u could unbolt the tranny and pull the engine..hmm,still the 3sgte swap is a lot more $,also becuase with that kinda power u have to upgrade other things,brakes,suspension ect...

[96stgreendemon]

yeah im not really looking for alot more horse power from the car as its my dd and im a college student that commutes 60 miles a day back and fourth i would still like the gas mileage and a little more power

[CelicaST_CALI]

look into the 4age black top,its NA but puts down around 160 whp(i think) so itd be very reliable..Whats your budget for the swap if u dont mind me asking?

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Jan 2, 2010 - 2:01 AM

[GriffGirl]

Your easiest bet is going to be to do a 4age head swap; the 7a block is a better block than the 4a block, at least the USDM 4a block. If you're looking for more power and don't have a ton of money, the head swap is definitely the best way to increase compression. On top of the head swap, you can also add an intake, and upgrade your exhaust by getting a nice aftermarket exhaust header and a decent exhaust system, even if just a 2.25" cat-back w/hi-flow muffler. With that, you can definitely expect some gains; I don't know the exact numbers on what the gains are on a head swap w/stock internals off the top of my head, but google it and you'll find a ton of info on it. With the intake and exhaust upgrades, you might collectively expect an increase of maybe 10 hp on top of whatever the head swap gets you.

Beyond that, your next best bet really is, IMHO, going to be a 3sgte. I've had my heart set on a Blacktop since shortly after I got my Celica 2 and a half years ago, but with some recent *enlightenment* and having looked at the actual numbers, honestly, it just didn't make sense to consider the 4agze any more. You're still going to need a wiring harness, ecu, etc. The only thing you won't need is the tranny - sorry, but big whoop. Like Jim said, it's not like you're going to just leave the tranny and axles bolted in while you lift the motor out, that's, well... retarded. If you're gonna pull an engine, you're gonna pull an engine, which includes the tranny.

The money, time and effort to swap the 3sgte vs a 4agze really is about equal, save for maybe a couple hundred bucks for the tranny to pair up to the S motor. Sorry, but the few hundred bucks is WAY worth it for, oh I dunno, a few HUNDRED more HP between the 2 motors IMO

[Mstoochn]

head swap increase compression? lol?

[GriffGirl]

yeah, swapping a 4age head onto a 7afe block increases compression.

[CelicaST_CALI]

4agze engine=1500$ from venus,they claim thats everything under the hood and the ecu,no tranny.Then lets say 1000$ in misc crap..The 3sgte swap is about 3k for the engine,400 tranny,200 axles,mounts...it averages to about 4500.This is how i personally see it,2000$ less for a 4agze swap,but about 100 hp less.Please tell me if you disagree,im sure michelle will haha

[96stgreendemon]

ha ha yeah i just want a tad bit more power, it still has to be my dd for the next 3 years of college, so i still want it to be reliable and something that can be done in a week or less, which is why i was thinking about just using a 4age head, how hard would this be?

[_Jim_]

4agze engine=1500$ from venus,they claim thats everything under the hood and the ecu,no tranny.Then lets say 1000$ in misc crap..The 3sgte swap is about 3k for the engine,400 tranny,200 axles,mounts...it averages to about 4500.This is how i personally see it,2000$ less for a 4agze swap,but about 100 hp less.Please tell me if you disagree,im sure michelle will haha

Ok lets do a little comparison (and these prices are based on a quick search and considered "average")

4agze:

COMPLETE Motor set.....1800 shipped
clutch, FMIC, gaskets, fluids, Misc.....1500$

Total:
3200$

Total power gains:
180whp
180wtq

(scrolling Mr2oc dyno registry)


GEN3 3sgte:
Complete motor set.....2000$ shipped (this is what I sell them for without the W2A IC, so since you be required to do a FMIC on the 4agze, it is only fair to price the GEN3 WITHOUT the W2A IC system in favor of a FMIC)
Clutch, FMIC, gaskets, fluids, Misc.....1500$
S54 transmission, axles, shifter cables, and mounts 400$

Total:
3900$

Total power gains
330whp
310wtq

(my personal results, which have been duplicated by others)



And now a little recap
4agze swap costs 3200$ completed and will produce around 180whp and 180wtq
GEN3 3sgte swap costs 3900$ completed and will produce around 330whp and 310wtq

So an addition 700$ allows you an ADDITIONAL 150whp and 130wtq.