ST engine swap, 4agze, or 4age, or 3sgte Options

[GriffGirl]

4agze engine=1500$ from venus,they claim thats everything under the hood and the ecu,no tranny.Then lets say 1000$ in misc crap..The 3sgte swap is about 3k for the engine,400 tranny,200 axles,mounts...it averages to about 4500.This is how i personally see it,2000$ less for a 4agze swap,but about 100 hp less.Please tell me if you disagree,im sure michelle will haha

I don't have to disagree, Jim already did it for me

From my perspective, OP is looking for a nice little "kick", on a budget, and with solid dependability. It seems that a motor swap is going to offer more dependability than a turbo project, which is why the swap even came into play here. Obviously though, a swap isn't going to be within any sort of college-kid budget, which is why I think a head swap is the best option. He's not looking for big numbers, and he's not looking to drop a ton of money into this. He just wants a car that isn't slow as sh1t, and is still a reliable DD. Being in the SAME shoes (except for the college kid part, I'm just a broke-ass adult hahaha), I've researched this whole thing time and time again, and it comes down to this, quite simply:

You want a little kick, but you can't spend $1000, do a head swap. Throw in intake, exhaust, header, all said you're looking at under $1000, maybe even under $500 depending on the exhaust. I've seen 16v 4age heads on CL for really cheap, like $100 or less.
You want big power and money isn't an issue, do a 3sgte swap.
You don't care so much about big #s, you just want a great build that's a little less common, do a 4agze swap.
You want instant gratification on a bit of a budget (compared to a motor swap) and +100 HP is enough, do a turbo project (on stock internals).

[96stgreendemon]

^^ yes michelle hit the nail right on the head, i dont want big big numbers as its a dd for me, a turbo would be nice but i have only found 1 7afe turbo manifold and afer bov fmic and all that basically it will be the same as a 4age blacktop head swap, and its looking like the 4agze is a little out of budget for me atm

[GriffGirl]

Exactly, you can very reasonably expect that a turbo project would run you roughly the same as a 4agze swap after all is said and done. Turbo might come in a little less, but then again maybe not after welding and fabrication.

Start researching the head swap idea. Club 4ag is a great place to get info on this; so is Celicatech, and also definitely check out Dr. Tweak's forum at http://www.phoenixtuning.com, there's a good amount of discussion about this on there, too.

Here's a thread to get ya started: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t98590.html
I found it after googling "how to build a 7AGE"

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Jan 2, 2010 - 3:21 PM

[95st-celica]

Honestly, from FIRST hand experience, i can say that the ST swap to the 3sgte is not a walk in the park. The most difficult part would be sourcing everything down, for instance, GT-motor mounts(drove out 4 hours to pull them off a car in harrisburg) along with shifter cables, Source a GT transmission, axles, clutch, etc, etc. Then once you have everything, you are still going to have to drill holes through the frame, figure out the BEST possiabl way to secure the motor mount, rebuild the complete engine, all of which takes time and money. Along with sending out the harness to be wired up, its not just like your pulling your engine out, drilling 2 holes, putting the motor mounts in and bolt the engine back up. its a lot of work. Now i dont want to discourage anyone from doing it because with the right tools, time, and space it can be done, espically if you have everything right there ready to go. and being in college does not help with expenses at all, trust me on that one. you would be better of finding a GT as a base to start, that will cancel out a lot of problems right there, after that, decide if you want to boost the 5s, or do the swap. i think the swap is a very good upgrade for either the 5s or the 7a, but with limited funds, and mechanical experience, its all up to what you think you can do, and what power goals you are looking to get out of your car, but in the same asspect, the 3sgte, either 2ND GEN or 3RD GEN, put out great reliable power.

[_Jim_]

Honestly, from FIRST hand experience, i can say that the ST swap to the 3sgte is not a walk in the park. The most difficult part would be sourcing everything down, for instance, GT-motor mounts(drove out 4 hours to pull them off a car in harrisburg) along with shifter cables, Source a GT transmission, axles, clutch, etc, etc. Then once you have everything, you are still going to have to drill holes through the frame, figure out the BEST possiabl way to secure the motor mount, rebuild the complete engine, all of which takes time and money. Along with sending out the harness to be wired up, its not just like your pulling your engine out, drilling 2 holes, putting the motor mounts in and bolt the engine back up. its a lot of work. Now i dont want to discourage anyone from doing it because with the right tools, time, and space it can be done, espically if you have everything right there ready to go. and being in college does not help with expenses at all, trust me on that one. you would be better of finding a GT as a base to start, that will cancel out a lot of problems right there, after that, decide if you want to boost the 5s, or do the swap. i think the swap is a very good upgrade for either the 5s or the 7a, but with limited funds, and mechanical experience, its all up to what you think you can do, and what power goals you are looking to get out of your car, but in the same asspect, the 3sgte, either 2ND GEN or 3RD GEN, put out great reliable power.

You have several options when swapping a GEN3 3sgte into an ST. If buying a motor set, understand that they don't come with motor mounts, S54 transmission, GT axles, or GT shifter cables, so sourcing these parts before hand would be in your best interest. There are always people parting out a gt on this site, so sourcing these parts would be relativity simple. Buying these parts ahead of time, will eliminate the feeling of being rushed when you have the 3sgte sitting in your garage waiting to go in, and will ultimately make your swapping experience smoother/easier/faster.

As for wiring...it is a wash. You will either need to wire in your 4agze swap, or your 3sgte swap. And with a GEN3 3sgte swap, it is only a handful of wires that need to be spliced. The average Joe would be able to complete this with the proper research.

Clutch, gasket rebuild, FMIC, are also a wash as both motors would require the same work.

I agree that ANY swap is a fair amount of work, but that is not to discourage anyone from trying. Between proper research and help from the community, you can get it done. The more time you spend reading, researching, and asking questions will ultimately determine how easy/successful your swapping experience will be.

[lagos]

All swaps are a pain in the as and costs money. If you're broke or you dont have free time, don't bother.
There are a lot of people who jumped into these projects without knowing what they are doing, only to end up selling their car off to someone else.

Do it right or don't do it at all.

[_Jim_]

All swaps are a pain in the as and costs money. If you're broke or you dont have free time, don't bother.
There are a lot of people who jumped into these projects without knowing what they are doing, only to end up selling their car off to someone else.

Do it right or don't do it at all.

Spoken like a true professional.

[GriffGirl]

Do it right or don't do it at all.

Dn't you mean do it half assed once and do it right the second time?

[soulshadow]

Get yourself a Supra, or a WRX....

* I have a complete 4age 16V BlueTop with Tvis if intrested fully running that I just took out with around 115K miles. Comes with MR2 AW11 ECU and complete Wiring.
Let me know if your intrested.

This post has been edited by soulshadow: Jan 3, 2010 - 8:22 PM

[lagos]

Do it right or don't do it at all.

Dn't you mean do it half assed once and do it right the second time?