ct26 turbine wheels, JDM ceramic versus USDM steel, differences? Are they noticeable or negligible? Options

[brenton1919]

Iiiiii yessss I'm sorry guys its all good in the 6gc hood ....... and deliusions that's some good info right there sry man. I guess we are just two different gear heads that's all

[Darkchylde]

Thanks Manny, just got a 20B shipped over from PR. I also got some 540's coming.

I opened another thread in the mean time is there a way to migrate it.
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=79257

This post has been edited by Darkchylde: May 8, 2011 - 6:42 PM

[delusionz]

Sorry guys, It was already gone a bit too far and then I completely pushed it off the edge.

Sorry Brent

[brenton1919]

Sorry guys, It was already gone a bit too far and then I completely pushed it off the edge.

Sorry Brent

its all gud

[delusionz]

this is what we call an upgraded ct26 or a ct26/t04e hybrid turbo

it's a ct26 housing, both sides, the compressor housing is machined to accept a t04e 46mm compressor, this is fitted to the shaft and whole rotating assembly balanced on a machine, and then shoved back into the 185 turbo. An ST205 10psi actuator is added and away u go.

The end result is really crap compared to a ct20b. (my fault for assuming ATS does it the same way)



This post has been edited by delusionz: May 9, 2011 - 4:56 AM

[delusionz]

I found another pic of a T04e upgraded CT26 which is way different to mine next to a regular CT26

the t04e one on the left has 7 blades, the regular one on the right has 5 blades, mine only has 6??



This post has been edited by delusionz: May 9, 2011 - 4:55 AM

[delusionz]

And here is Darkchyld's CT20b showing 5 blades

[delusionz]

CT20b we know is 48mm
CT26 is 42mm
Mine apparently is 46mm

What is that monster 7 blade one then?

[delusionz]

And here you can see ATS racing CT27 turbos with 6 blades just like mine



So now what?

If mine was just like the ATS racing ones why did it lag until 4000 and then make less power than the ct20b anyways?

In the UK Fensport make a Stage 1 CT26 which is supposedly the same upgrade as the CT27, some guys on GT4OC with ST205's using them also complain of the same things I did, Lag, poor wastegate control, less power, not spoolup until 4000, etc. They said the experience is less than exciting which quite frankly, remembering my old CT20b, I'd agree.


This post has been edited by delusionz: May 9, 2011 - 5:09 AM

[brenton1919]

CT20b we know is 48mm
CT26 is 42mm
Mine apparently is 46mm

What is that monster 7 blade one then?

yep your right ats uses a 46mm trim on there turbos as well, as far everything else i know the boi with the mr2's love them, and that 7 blade i hear its a ct26 from a supra with a 60mm trim in it i dont know that for sure but ive heard the boi's with those supra's are doing that how.....i have no idea if anyone knows i would like to know

[presure2]

the key to the 27 is the exhaust side work.
thats why the ct27 is superior to just a compressor upgrade.

[delusionz]

thanks presure2, the exhaust side on a 26 is slightly larger than a 20b, i was told there was no point doing any machining or changing the wheel though so what's the secret?

and also our ct20b and ct26 turbos already started with a jdm ceramic turbine wheels which should have less lag to begin with

This post has been edited by delusionz: May 9, 2011 - 6:13 AM

[brenton1919]

[quote name='delusionz' date='May 9, 2011 - 5:53 AM' post='915482']
here some info from one of the guys who make the ats ct27 turbo.......................The CT27 at 20 psi on e85 will get you right about 300whp. However the E85 is going to require some larger injectors and a way to run them. A rom tune could be setup to run E85 using 75-80lb injectors, but the car would be too rich to run on gasoline. A "dual tune" for injectors that size is not really an option either.

The biggest injectors I can tune the rom tune for are 550's plus about 10% more using the ATS FPR. That's only enough fuel to support about 260whp at sea level (or 300whp at your altitude), that's only enough fuel for about 17 psi on a CT27 and high octane pump gas would also support that power level, so the E85 becomes redundant.

If you are planning on a stand-alone ECU, or 100% e85 usage I can come up with a solution.

Aaron
__________________
http://www.atsracing.net

JDM SWAPS in stock HURRY for FREE LSD UPGRADE
606rwhp ATS 2.2 MR2

here's some more info..Owners with well maintained cars are getting 80k+ miles out of CT27's. The Toyota turbos do not have the large bearings that you are used to with your diesel applications, plus I think the turbo gets accelerated and decelerated more with a gas motor, hence the shorter lifespan.

......just a little bit not really on the spec side tho nobody really knows how they make there turbo's as far as all spec go just some of the key parts the main thing is that a ct27 was made to get up a mr2 up around 300hp to 350hp stock. are engines come with a little more power than the sw20. well yalls 3rd gen and my 4th gen. so just think of the ct27 as a upgraded stock turbo, nothin serious. because the sw20 motor comes with around 225hp 230hp if i am right maybe less and that car is lighter than our celica. so the ct27 is a nice STOCK! upgrade but yes if u want more power better flow upgrading to gt35r turbo would be better.

This post has been edited by brenton1919: May 9, 2011 - 7:00 AM

[delusionz]

i wanna know what spoolup is like on CT27.

Car gives u a slap in the face somewhere between 2500 and 3000 on a CT20b

On the CT26/T04E 46mm I had, it made a lazy transition into power at 4000 and achieving 18psi by 5000. with only 12psi by 4000, 10 psi around 3000, and barely 3psi under 3000

[brenton1919]

i wanna know what spoolup is like on CT27.

Car gives u a slap in the face somewhere between 2500 and 3000 on a CT20b

On the CT26/T04E 46mm I had, it made a lazy transition into power at 4000 and achieving 18psi by 5000. with only 12psi by 4000, 10 psi around 3000, and barely 3psi under 3000

on a mr2 forum one guy said the slap in the face lol for a ct27 for him was 2500.... a few others said 4000 .... some said great not much lag, others said hella lag ... i know my ct20b going from 3rd to 4th is bam right there but going from 4th to 5th mannnn it feelll like im waitin for new years lol... but once it kicks in im gone...................which is why i love my srt-4 no lag at all every gear is hold on gear.....

[delusionz]

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/turbo.htm

There are very few options (at least in the USA) for changing the turbine housing or wheel. The single entry CT-26 turbine is easily available, but it does not bolt to the stock MR2 turbo elbow, so serious modifications are required to use it. The most widely available alternative is to clip the turbine wheel. Clipping the wheel does reduce its ability to extract energy from the exhaust, but since there is so much exhaust at the higher RPMs where the stock turbine wheel chokes the engine, clipping is a reasonable choice. Dyno runs with a 12 degree clip have shown ~15 rwhp improvements in peak horsepower and moved the choke point from around 5.5K to 6K RPMs. There is a slight increase in turbo lag, but this can be kept to a minimum if the compressor wheel is kept to a modest size (since there is really no need to go with a large compressor wheel as we determined in the 3S-GTE turbo sizing primer).

At the current time, my suggestion for a twin entry CT-26 upgrade is to add a TO4E-46 trim compressor wheel and perform a 15 degree clip on the turbine wheel. Those who have ceramic turbine wheels (only used in Japanese spec 3S-GTEs) cannot clip due to the brittleness of the material, but the smaller ceramic turbine is already a little less restrictive than the metal one and naturally supports about 10 rwhp more that its unclipped sibling.

[delusionz]

This what ATS do? Clip the USDM steel exhaust wheel? But mine had ceramic so can't be clipped, but still less restrictive than the steel anyways

So either way you look at it, What I had with the T04E-46 is pretty standard procedure, and with the JDM ceramic turbine being comparable to a clipped steel wheel (technically will mean mine has less lag at the cost of 5hp??) It seems my CT26 upgrade turbo isnt far off the ATS 27 after all.

This being the case I can say better off with the CT20b??? 1500rpm earlier spool, 4wheel tyre smoking punch in the mid range, just as good up top?

[brenton1919]

This what ATS do? Clip the USDM steel exhaust wheel? But mine had ceramic so can't be clipped, but still less restrictive than the steel anyways

So either way you look at it, What I had with the T04E-46 is pretty standard procedure, and with the JDM ceramic turbine being comparable to a clipped steel wheel (technically will mean mine has less lag at the cost of 5hp??) It seems my CT26 upgrade turbo isnt far off the ATS 27 after all.

This being the case I can say better off with the CT20b??? 1500rpm earlier spool, 4wheel tyre smoking punch in the mid range, just as good up top?

yeah I think people on your side of the world your upgraded ct26 is better than over here. Just because america is slow at everything we do lol. But ats has a couple of tech's... nobody quote me on this lol but I think there from japan....... so they might have some inside info on things....... but if u ever come over here I would say ats would be the best place to take your 3sgte.. .... or to dr tweak I really know of anybody else that is as gud with these engines then them over here...... its all they do everyday

[korban]

i wanna know what spoolup is like on CT27.

Car gives u a slap in the face somewhere between 2500 and 3000 on a CT20b

On the CT26/T04E 46mm I had, it made a lazy transition into power at 4000 and achieving 18psi by 5000. with only 12psi by 4000, 10 psi around 3000, and barely 3psi under 3000

FYI My CT20b is making 7psi at 3000, 11psi at 3500, 12psi at 4750

[delusionz]

You get a kick at 3000 though, i didn't get a kick until 4000

CT20b throttle response is alot better too, the exhaust wheel is lazy on a ct26